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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 14, 2020 22:48:14 GMT -5
Not me. I argued before to go to the wire with him. If he left because he refused a huge contract, you knew he wanted out (which don’t know now). But we’d have lucked into a change in market conditions. I don’t believe Betts would have passed on the deal the Dodgers gave him if the Sox had offered it. And as I said long ago, with an all-time great, you do everything to keep him. Not quit with a year left on his contract for pennies on the dollar. My advocacy of a sell-off is IN LIGHT of dumping Mookie. Once you’ve traded your generational talent for a slappsy right-fielder and the hope of a first-division second baseman, why stop there? The Sox quit on this season when they made that trade. I’d add, too, that David Price was no slouch. Pre-opting out, he would have been by far the best pitcher on the Sox. So trading your best pitcher and your best player for what they got... I’d rather have the play. It might have been more entertaining that the baseball this team plays. Besides, you never trade Mookie man. Never trade Mookie. I'm sorry for repeating myself over and over but I do so for a support group mentality to help me get over it and yet I can't. There's no excuse for a big market team to ever trade a talent like Mookie. If you need to let him walk for nothing, let it happen. He's so good at the sport that any analysis about him is not even rational. Trading him is summoning a curse upon the franchise.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 3:27:21 GMT -5
Rob Longley @longleysunsport · 8h BREAKING: A source here in Buffalo says the injury to #Bluejays Bo Bichette is worse than expected. Right knee sprain could keep young shortstop out of the lineup until mid September, an obvious huge blow in shortened season.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,765
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Post by mobaz on Aug 17, 2020 9:14:56 GMT -5
In case you were wondering how the Indians clubhouse was reacting to their pitchers going out...
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 10:03:31 GMT -5
In case you were wondering how the Indians clubhouse was reacting to their pitchers going out... That story isn't going to help the Indians bargaining position. There's a huge plus here for the sport though. It's impressive how serious the other 26 are taking the Covid situation.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2020 10:14:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't assume this means those guys are getting traded. Who says that players on other teams are going to react better to these guys joining the squad?
I can't imagine Cleveland accepts pennies on the dollar for these guys. They probably keep them in the minors at the ATS and hope the guys learn from the mistake, and that the other MLB guys forgive and forget.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 10:28:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't assume this means those guys are getting traded. Who says that players on other teams are going to react better to these guys joining the squad? I can't imagine Cleveland accepts pennies on the dollar for these guys. They probably keep them in the minors at the ATS and hope the guys learn from the mistake, and that the other MLB guys forgive and forget. What if there was a team that had nothing to lose by keeping them offline for the rest of the year ?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 10:54:15 GMT -5
I think people who don't think Cleveland needs to trade both of them are underestimating how the team must feel about Carrasco and Francona's health. That factor wouldn't be there or would be significantly less with any other team over time.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2020 11:31:49 GMT -5
Tigers are calling up Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, and Issac Paredes this week. That's one way to just throw it right on the table.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 12:01:51 GMT -5
I think people who don't think Cleveland needs to trade both of them are underestimating how the team must feel about Carrasco and Francona's health. That factor wouldn't be there or would be significantly less with any other team over time. I think you have played they are trading them from day one because you want us to get a good deal. Needing to punish them doesn't equal have to trade them. That team put up with Bauer for years. At worst you keep them in AAA until the end of the year unless a trade makes sense. Then trade them in the off-season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2020 12:31:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't assume this means those guys are getting traded. Who says that players on other teams are going to react better to these guys joining the squad? I can't imagine Cleveland accepts pennies on the dollar for these guys. They probably keep them in the minors at the ATS and hope the guys learn from the mistake, and that the other MLB guys forgive and forget. What if there was a team that had nothing to lose by keeping them offline for the rest of the year ? Why couldn't that team be Cleveland? And why wouldn't any reason you'd say why it wouldn't be Cleveland apply to some other locker room?
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 13:41:14 GMT -5
As promised, I will mention Mookie only in this thread. But MLB has an article on his contact rate: he’s swung at 101 pitches in the zone this year and missed ONCE. Record pace for contact.
Those who worry about some drop off the cliff overlook that Mookie is fundamentally a freak of nature with hand/eye coordination like Ted Williams.
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 14:50:30 GMT -5
What if there was a team that had nothing to lose by keeping them offline for the rest of the year ? Why couldn't that team be Cleveland? And why wouldn't any reason you'd say why it wouldn't be Cleveland apply to some other locker room? Given that even exiling two very good young pitchers was surprisingly tough love, I can’t fathom a trade unless it is for a massive return. I can think of at least one team that doesn’t have the system to approach that package. But... it does appear the Sox are involved in one way: former Sox prospect Logan Allen might slot in for one of those guys.
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Post by rminns10 on Aug 17, 2020 14:55:00 GMT -5
As promised, I will mention Mookie only in this thread. But MLB has an article on his contact rate: he’s swung at 101 pitches in the zone this year and missed ONCE. Record pace for contact. Those who worry about some drop off the cliff overlook that Mookie is fundamentally a freak of nature with hand/eye coordination like Ted Williams. That is outrageous
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 20:59:25 GMT -5
What if there was a team that had nothing to lose by keeping them offline for the rest of the year ? Why couldn't that team be Cleveland? And why wouldn't any reason you'd say why it wouldn't be Cleveland apply to some other locker room? Because Cleveland has a legitimate shot of going deep into the playoffs. Some teams have no shot. Taking 2 quality arms out of the mix with no reasonable return would hurt more relative to their playoff odds. Cleveland needs hitting even with those two out of the mix. They still have a quality rotation perfect for the playoffs. Sitting two pitchers for most or all of the year wouldn't change the odds for teams like the Sox, Pirates and Mariners.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2020 22:04:33 GMT -5
For the guys wanting to do the Wil Myers trade, it should be noted that with Hosmer out of the Padres lineup, they have turned to Cronenworth at 1B, not Myers. I also saw Cronenworth in the Premier-12 games and he was also impressive but more for the way he played rather than the tools. He just looked more professional than everyone else. For the Myers trade people, Cronenworth has a .950 OPS, .396 wOBA & 156 wRC+ so far in his career start. He also plays solid defense at every position except pitcher and catcher.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 22:20:58 GMT -5
As promised, I will mention Mookie only in this thread. But MLB has an article on his contact rate: he’s swung at 101 pitches in the zone this year and missed ONCE. Record pace for contact. Those who worry about some drop off the cliff overlook that Mookie is fundamentally a freak of nature with hand/eye coordination like Ted Williams. Not surprising, Betts has a career z contact % of 93.6%. Guess who is better for his career? He's currently on our team. Here's a hint, you won't be comparing him to Ted Williams.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 17, 2020 22:29:26 GMT -5
As promised, I will mention Mookie only in this thread. But MLB has an article on his contact rate: he’s swung at 101 pitches in the zone this year and missed ONCE. Record pace for contact. Those who worry about some drop off the cliff overlook that Mookie is fundamentally a freak of nature with hand/eye coordination like Ted Williams. Not surprising, Betts has a career z contact % of 93.6%. Guess who is better for his career? He's currently on our team. Here's a hint, you won't be comparing him to Ted Williams. Chavis!!! What I win?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 22:35:32 GMT -5
Not surprising, Betts has a career z contact % of 93.6%. Guess who is better for his career? He's currently on our team. Here's a hint, you won't be comparing him to Ted Williams. Chavis!!! What I win? Nope. Another Chance?
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 22:38:37 GMT -5
As promised, I will mention Mookie only in this thread. But MLB has an article on his contact rate: he’s swung at 101 pitches in the zone this year and missed ONCE. Record pace for contact. Those who worry about some drop off the cliff overlook that Mookie is fundamentally a freak of nature with hand/eye coordination like Ted Williams. Not surprising, Betts has a career z contact % of 93.6%. Guess who is better for his career? He's currently on our team. Here's a hint, you won't be comparing him to Ted Williams. Is he a recent MVP? I’m stumped. I’m assuming it must be someone who’s played more than a full season, or it seems sort of irrelevant.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 22:41:43 GMT -5
Not surprising, Betts has a career z contact % of 93.6%. Guess who is better for his career? He's currently on our team. Here's a hint, you won't be comparing him to Ted Williams. Is he a recent MVP? I’m stumped. I’m assuming it must be someone who’s played more than a full season, or it seems sort of irrelevant. Peraza has a career percentage of 94.3%
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 22:46:08 GMT -5
Is he a recent MVP? I’m stumped. I’m assuming it must be someone who’s played more than a full season, or it seems sort of irrelevant. Peraza has a career percentage of 94.3% Does he average nearly 30 home runs per 162 games? Then I feel much better. We have our star. Add: only one other player has had 95% contact rate and .600 slugging since 2008. Prime Pujols.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 23:00:21 GMT -5
Peraza has a career percentage of 94.3% Does he average nearly 30 home runs per 162 games? Then I feel much better. We have our star. Add: only one other player has had 95% contact rate and .600 slugging since 2008. Prime Pujols. No and that was the point. Z contact is just one piece and you nailed another big one, his power. Yet he's smaller than Peraza.
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2020 23:11:27 GMT -5
Does he average nearly 30 home runs per 162 games? Then I feel much better. We have our star. Add: only one other player has had 95% contact rate and .600 slugging since 2008. Prime Pujols. No and that was the point. Z contact is just one piece and you nailed another big one, his power. Yet he's smaller than Peraza. Whatevs. If you want to deny he is a friggin’ X-Man, go ahead. He already has higher peak-7 WAR than average HOF RFers, and he may be moving into his prime. He is elite at EVERYTHING. The contact rate is just one more thing he is better at than, well, yeah, everyone. Setting everything aside, if you don’t appreciate a guy missing one out of 101 strikes... while hitting for power... sigh.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2020 23:32:23 GMT -5
I'm not saying anything bad about Betts. He's a great player that can have special seasons. Heck he might be having one right now, an MVP type season. He's going to be good most likely for years.
Yet Pujols was unreal. He was like a machine. His Z contact percentages never got horrible. Even with the Angles he had numbers Chavis dreams of. Yet he wasn't close to the same hitter. You can't use Z contact percentages to predict how a player will age.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 18, 2020 8:15:29 GMT -5
Jim Duquettev @jim_Duquette · 21h Jayce Tingler of the Padres just told us that Pham broke the hook of the hamate and they’ve called yo Josh Naylor to replace him
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