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7/27-7/30 Red Sox vs. Mets Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2020 11:40:46 GMT -5
"The team stinks so they should get rid of their best players" is... not my favorite form of argument in the best of times. But honestly, how much are they gonna get for anybody this season? You think they're gonna restock the farm system by selling JBJ as a rental in a season that might not even finish? As for JDM, what's your plan for replacing his bat next season? Are you so desperate to make the 2020 team as bad as possible that you'd make the 2021 team worse as well? I think the issue is the 2021 team is already going to be not-nearly-good-enough. So then one asks: can you make a few big moves to make it better, do you endure a mediocre season, or do you reload? I agree, though, that there is not much to be done in terms of dumping. With the Marlins situation, I don’t see rentals having a good market. Anyway, the Sox have virtually no tradeable pieces (that they want to trade). I would trade JDM in a second for prospects, though. Barnes and Workman might have some value by the deadline, even some low-minors flyer. I’d consider trading CVaz, since the team may not be good in the span of his best years. But I think simply looking to 2021 as a turned page is a bad idea. This team is fundamentally screwed. Eovaldi is hardly a guarantee; ERod had a great year last year, but he is no certainty; and Sale might never be the same. And after that... nothing for pitching. The lineup is bleh, with no immediate improvements in sight (and this even assumes peak performance from Devers, X, JDM). What I dread more than anything is a plan that keeps them not terrible but not good. There's not a long list of guys coming back from TJ who are never good again. I'm assuming (hoping) the fact that they dinked around for so long on his elbow means it wasn't a "worst case" scenario and seems like it was something he could have pitched through, but with the uncertainty of 2020 the team felt it was in their long-term best interest to get it fixed now. Again, I'm not a dr, but they tried to tell us 3 different times that Sale wouldn't need surgery and then as soon as Corona created doubt he went under the knife. Then you have Eovaldi who is a good 3/4 starter. He can dominate a big game (as we've seen) and can have an up and down season in terms out outings (with limited IP). E-Rod is a solid 2/3 when healthy. It's not a bad rotation for 2021. They could also make the following additions. I would give someone like Scherzer a big 2-3 year deal. Curious what Noah Syndergaard would get in the market since he opted for TJ as well.
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Post by manfred on Jul 28, 2020 11:46:34 GMT -5
I think the issue is the 2021 team is already going to be not-nearly-good-enough. So then one asks: can you make a few big moves to make it better, do you endure a mediocre season, or do you reload? I agree, though, that there is not much to be done in terms of dumping. With the Marlins situation, I don’t see rentals having a good market. Anyway, the Sox have virtually no tradeable pieces (that they want to trade). I would trade JDM in a second for prospects, though. Barnes and Workman might have some value by the deadline, even some low-minors flyer. I’d consider trading CVaz, since the team may not be good in the span of his best years. But I think simply looking to 2021 as a turned page is a bad idea. This team is fundamentally screwed. Eovaldi is hardly a guarantee; ERod had a great year last year, but he is no certainty; and Sale might never be the same. And after that... nothing for pitching. The lineup is bleh, with no immediate improvements in sight (and this even assumes peak performance from Devers, X, JDM). What I dread more than anything is a plan that keeps them not terrible but not good. There's not a long list of guys coming back from TJ who are never good again. I'm assuming (hoping) the fact that they dinked around for so long on his elbow means it wasn't a "worst case" scenario and seems like it was something he could have pitched through, but with the uncertainty of 2020 the team felt it was in their long-term best interest to get it fixed now. Again, I'm not a dr, but they tried to tell us 3 different times that Sale wouldn't need surgery and then as soon as Corona created doubt he went under the knife. Then you have Eovaldi who is a good 3/4 starter. He can dominate a big game (as we've seen) and can have an up and down season in terms out outings (with limited IP). E-Rod is a solid 2/3 when healthy. It's not a bad rotation for 2021. They could also make the following additions. I would give someone like Scherzer a big 2-3 year deal. Curious what Noah Syndergaard would get in the market since he opted for TJ as well. Signing Scherzer is exactly the thing sort of thing I dread.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 28, 2020 11:49:41 GMT -5
i am not sure that rentals wouldn't return some good, if not great value. While there are question marks about whether the season will in fact finish, the same mechanisms that drive the trade deadline market will be in play. Couple that with the expanded teams that will be in contention and there could be great needs for players, assuming we are out of it and the return makes sense
Some teams that have been on the periphery for years and have a chance to win this year may decide to go all in.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2020 12:14:43 GMT -5
There's not a long list of guys coming back from TJ who are never good again. I'm assuming (hoping) the fact that they dinked around for so long on his elbow means it wasn't a "worst case" scenario and seems like it was something he could have pitched through, but with the uncertainty of 2020 the team felt it was in their long-term best interest to get it fixed now. Again, I'm not a dr, but they tried to tell us 3 different times that Sale wouldn't need surgery and then as soon as Corona created doubt he went under the knife. Then you have Eovaldi who is a good 3/4 starter. He can dominate a big game (as we've seen) and can have an up and down season in terms out outings (with limited IP). E-Rod is a solid 2/3 when healthy. It's not a bad rotation for 2021. They could also make the following additions. I would give someone like Scherzer a big 2-3 year deal. Curious what Noah Syndergaard would get in the market since he opted for TJ as well. Signing Scherzer is exactly the thing sort of thing I dread. It's not ideal, but they have the space (assuming a year is played) and the need to make it happen. The team needs to take a gamble on a short-term deal and he's one of the best in the market so really you're paying for maybe 1 or 2 years after what you really want. Imagine if the Astros didn't gamble on an aging Verlander. Granted, he's only a year younger than Verlander and will be older than Verlander was when he went 2nd and 1st in the Cy Young so not a great comp. I just think on a short deal he's a worthwhile flyer to fill a positional need. Unless you want splurge on Thor, Kershaw or Greinke?
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 28, 2020 12:33:33 GMT -5
Bobby Dalbec could perform just as well as Chavis right now, change my mind. Roll the dice and see what you've got. 1) Chavis is a backup. I don't want Dalbec to come up and be a backup. 2) Why waste Dalbec's service time right now? Maybe later in the year but I don't see the rush. 3) As mentioned, he didn't get back into camp until July 12. Even if they were inclined to bring him up right away, he needs to actually get ready. We're hearing about guys getting hurt because three weeks wasn't enough. Dalbec hasn't even had that yet. Chavis was the starter the first 2 games. I don’t want to hear service time arguments for a team that has the highest ticket prices in the game.
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Post by manfred on Jul 28, 2020 12:48:05 GMT -5
Signing Scherzer is exactly the thing sort of thing I dread. It's not ideal, but they have the space (assuming a year is played) and the need to make it happen. The team needs to take a gamble on a short-term deal and he's one of the best in the market so really you're paying for maybe 1 or 2 years after what you really want. Imagine if the Astros didn't gamble on an aging Verlander. Granted, he's only a year younger than Verlander and will be older than Verlander was when he went 2nd and 1st in the Cy Young so not a great comp. I just think on a short deal he's a worthwhile flyer to fill a positional need. Unless you want splurge on Thor, Kershaw or Greinke? The Astros were a great team that added a great pitcher. This is a pretty bad team. No, I don’t want any of the others. I’d like them to rebuild a couple years, then see what #1 or 2 is available as the last piece. Closer to the Schilling move.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 28, 2020 12:59:51 GMT -5
1) Chavis is a backup. I don't want Dalbec to come up and be a backup. 2) Why waste Dalbec's service time right now? Maybe later in the year but I don't see the rush. 3) As mentioned, he didn't get back into camp until July 12. Even if they were inclined to bring him up right away, he needs to actually get ready. We're hearing about guys getting hurt because three weeks wasn't enough. Dalbec hasn't even had that yet. Chavis was the starter the first 2 games. I don’t want to hear service time arguments for a team that has the highest ticket prices in the game. Chavis started 2 of the first 3, and that's because there were lefties on the mound in both. I probably could've been more specific: He's on the short end of a platoon with Moreland right now that he's in the process of playing his way out of. I don't want Dalbec to come up to be on the short end of a platoon at best. And ticket prices have nothing to do with service time. Zero connection. Service time has to do with team control. You have a player for six years. Why bring him up before he's ready (both in a baseball sense and in a "he's been in camp for 2 weeks" sense) and potentially give up a year of control down the road? That's just poor management. If this continues and they can get something for Moreland in 3 or 4 weeks? Giddyup on Dalbec coming up to be the everyday 1B. Right now? I'd wait.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 28, 2020 13:07:54 GMT -5
Chavis was the starter the first 2 games. I don’t want to hear service time arguments for a team that has the highest ticket prices in the game. Chavis started 2 of the first 3, and that's because there were lefties on the mound in both. I probably could've been more specific: He's on the short end of a platoon with Moreland right now that he's in the process of playing his way out of. I don't want Dalbec to come up to be on the short end of a platoon at best. And ticket prices have nothing to do with service time. Zero connection. Service time has to do with team control. You have a player for six years. Why bring him up before he's ready (both in a baseball sense and in a "he's been in camp for 2 weeks" sense) and potentially give up a year of control down the road? That's just poor management. If this continues and they can get something for Moreland in 3 or 4 weeks? Giddyup on Dalbec coming up to be the everyday 1B. Right now? I'd wait. In reference to the ticket prices, I'm saying they can afford to pay the player, we don't have to do what other clubs do and screw them by letter of the law.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2020 14:16:45 GMT -5
It's not ideal, but they have the space (assuming a year is played) and the need to make it happen. The team needs to take a gamble on a short-term deal and he's one of the best in the market so really you're paying for maybe 1 or 2 years after what you really want. Imagine if the Astros didn't gamble on an aging Verlander. Granted, he's only a year younger than Verlander and will be older than Verlander was when he went 2nd and 1st in the Cy Young so not a great comp. I just think on a short deal he's a worthwhile flyer to fill a positional need. Unless you want splurge on Thor, Kershaw or Greinke? The Astros were a great team that added a great pitcher. This is a pretty bad team. No, I don’t want any of the others. I’d like them to rebuild a couple years, then see what #1 or 2 is available as the last piece. Closer to the Schilling move. I mean, taking a flyer on Scherzer for 2 years when they have no real kids coming up and a rotation full of guys with health issues isn't a bad thing. Assuming JD stays, the lineup is potent and can be made better with a Freddie Freeman signing. They're not that far off from competing so going into a tank mode for a few seasons seems like a waste.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 28, 2020 14:43:49 GMT -5
The Astros were a great team that added a great pitcher. This is a pretty bad team. No, I don’t want any of the others. I’d like them to rebuild a couple years, then see what #1 or 2 is available as the last piece. Closer to the Schilling move. I mean, taking a flyer on Scherzer for 2 years when they have no real kids coming up and a rotation full of guys with health issues isn't a bad thing. Assuming JD stays, the lineup is potent and can be made better with a Freddie Freeman signing. They're not that far off from competing so going into a tank mode for a few seasons seems like a waste. Why would Scherzer want to end his career on a team that isn't a lock for the postseason?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2020 14:46:08 GMT -5
I mean, taking a flyer on Scherzer for 2 years when they have no real kids coming up and a rotation full of guys with health issues isn't a bad thing. Assuming JD stays, the lineup is potent and can be made better with a Freddie Freeman signing. They're not that far off from competing so going into a tank mode for a few seasons seems like a waste. Why would Scherzer want to end his career on a team that isn't a lock for the postseason? Money?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 28, 2020 14:51:55 GMT -5
Chavis started 2 of the first 3, and that's because there were lefties on the mound in both. I probably could've been more specific: He's on the short end of a platoon with Moreland right now that he's in the process of playing his way out of. I don't want Dalbec to come up to be on the short end of a platoon at best. And ticket prices have nothing to do with service time. Zero connection. Service time has to do with team control. You have a player for six years. Why bring him up before he's ready (both in a baseball sense and in a "he's been in camp for 2 weeks" sense) and potentially give up a year of control down the road? That's just poor management. If this continues and they can get something for Moreland in 3 or 4 weeks? Giddyup on Dalbec coming up to be the everyday 1B. Right now? I'd wait. In reference to the ticket prices, I'm saying they can afford to pay the player, we don't have to do what other clubs do and screw them by letter of the law. He's not ready, heck Benny, Devers and Chavis all look lost because it was a very short camp that didn't have tons of preseason games. Yet you want to rush a rookie up that lost like three weeks due to Covid? Do you want to crush the guys confidence? I won't even get into the debate of wanting to replace Chavis because of strikeouts in two games with Dalbec. While Dalbec showed some improvement in that area last year strikeouts have been a huge issue for him. He'll get his chance but it's not right now and it's because he's not ready.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 28, 2020 14:53:54 GMT -5
Why would Scherzer want to end his career on a team that isn't a lock for the postseason? Money? You think a competitor thats one piece away couldn't match whatever the sox can?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 28, 2020 15:37:30 GMT -5
You think a competitor thats one piece away couldn't match whatever the sox can? The Red Sox are the 2nd or 3rd richest organization in baseball who embarrassed themselves 2 years in a row and just reset all their luxury tax penalties. I think they're planning on spending.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jul 28, 2020 16:54:53 GMT -5
You think a competitor thats one piece away couldn't match whatever the sox can? The Red Sox are the 2nd or 3rd richest organization in baseball who embarrassed themselves 2 years in a row and just [if they play enough games this season will] reset all their luxury tax penalties. I think they're planning on spending.
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Post by jbsox on Jul 28, 2020 17:19:17 GMT -5
The Red Sox are the 2nd or 3rd richest organization in baseball who embarrassed themselves 2 years in a row and just [if they play enough games this season will] reset all their luxury tax penalties. I think they're planning on spending. I agree. There are enough good pitchers out in the free agent market this offseason that I think we could sign a couple of them to short term deals like Lester for example. Especially since we won’t be aggressively going after Betts it loosens the reigns a bit to spend elsewhere. We can even decline Perez’s club option if we aren’t happy with him to free up a little more. Then we are back in business next year with Erod, Eovaldi, Sale returning later in the season, FA pitcher 1, FA pitcher 2. it will at least buy us some time until hopefully at least a couple of our young pitchers like Groome and Song develop down the road.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 28, 2020 17:26:08 GMT -5
The Red Sox are the 2nd or 3rd richest organization in baseball who embarrassed themselves 2 years in a row and just [if they play enough games this season will] reset all their luxury tax penalties. I think they're planning on spending. Call me crazy, but I can't see Bloom sacrificing draft picks for guys that turn down qualifying offers, the system is in no condition for that, and he's smart enough to know it
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Post by jdb on Jul 28, 2020 18:20:55 GMT -5
No Verdugo. Let him get ABs please.
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:31:42 GMT -5
Pillar for the early season MVP!
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:33:15 GMT -5
Hi 90 mph cheese
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:34:27 GMT -5
Great play by Xander!! Let's get some hits
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:36:51 GMT -5
Aw shit.
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:38:16 GMT -5
You would think that Peraza would have been coached enough to learn a bit about the wall. In Ron, I don't trust.
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Post by caseytins on Jul 28, 2020 18:40:06 GMT -5
I think they are trying to lose. I think the season will last two more weeks max. Placing bets on the over/under.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jul 28, 2020 18:42:35 GMT -5
I’m perfectly content going into the second inning tied. I’ve decided to work on setting the bar very low this year.
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