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8/10-8/13 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 12, 2020 20:38:18 GMT -5
6-17 when they leave NYC on Monday evening?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 20:39:23 GMT -5
And just throw away all of the long term gains we've made ? No thanks. C - Plawecki 1B - Moreland 2B - Peraza 3B - Arauz SS - Lin LF - Chavis CF - JBJ RF - Pillar DH - Ockimey Bench - Lucroy, Chatham, Hernandez, Munoz SP - Perez SP - Hart SP - Shawaryn SP - Openers/Bullpen SP - Openers/Bullpen And you wouldn't want Bloom to have trade material because....
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Post by manfred on Aug 12, 2020 20:51:29 GMT -5
Mookie Betts when he was here: "Bad year, over-rated, can't pay him..." .915 OPS Mookie Betts as a Dodger: "No one on this team can hit. Look at Mookie with the Dodgers. Awful return. I miss Mookie" .905 OPS I never said any of those things, for one. I’d have dropped a mint in his yard. And by the way... Mookie is tied for 7th in baseball in bWAR (and under .01 behind 2 guys ahead of him). So money well spent. Edit: really he is in a dead heat at 4th for position players.
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 12, 2020 20:53:01 GMT -5
So much negativity. Just enjoy that games are being played.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 12, 2020 20:59:46 GMT -5
Maybe we found a leadoff hitter, Pillar 4-4!
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 12, 2020 21:02:28 GMT -5
Arauz is awesome edit: JD's alright too I guess
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 12, 2020 21:05:46 GMT -5
You cannot stop Ara-Ooze, you can only hope to contain him.
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Post by Canseco on Aug 12, 2020 22:19:12 GMT -5
Maybe we found a leadoff hitter movable piece, Pillar 4-4!
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 12, 2020 22:38:42 GMT -5
You cannot stop Ara-Ooze, you can only hope to contain him. Has a rule 5 draft pick ever been moved for a top 25 MLB prospect? What package would be considered enough for him? Are we witnessing history in the making? I'll hang up and listen.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 12, 2020 22:40:49 GMT -5
Silver lining, apparently two bullpen sessions in Pawtucket and the Red Sox found the Weber they thought they had in the spring?
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Post by jkfer98 on Aug 12, 2020 23:03:53 GMT -5
Silver lining, apparently two bullpen sessions in Pawtucket and the Red Sox found the Weber they thought they had in the spring? Still annoyed Roenicke brought him back out for the 9th inning - really seems to be no sense of urgency with him. I understand he was pitching well, but you just scored 5 runs to get back into the game and Ryan Weber is still Ryan Weber. Take him out after 5 shutout innings and have him feel really good about his performance. I'm not saying they would have come back, but I just feel like pulling within 3 in the 8th inning and then leaving Weber out there (to immediately give up a homer) instead of giving the ball to one of your better relievers sends a bad message to the team. On that note, is everything okay with Workman? What's with the reluctance to use him? He's thrown 5 innings this year and hasn't pitched since last Friday. Don't you want him to get in a little work, even if its a non-save situation?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 23:21:09 GMT -5
Ian Browne @ianmbrowne · 1h Roenicke just said that Benintendi is probably going to be more than the 10 days they originally talked about.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 13, 2020 8:02:26 GMT -5
Silver lining, apparently two bullpen sessions in Pawtucket and the Red Sox found the Weber they thought they had in the spring? Chris I think that you may possibly be the legendary cockeyed optimist. But we have to find it where we can.
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Post by huskies15 on Aug 13, 2020 8:17:52 GMT -5
Devers needs to use the whole field and shrink the zone. He's been woeful.
I've only watched this year to hope Xander, Devers, and Verdugo play well, but even that hasn't really happened.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 13, 2020 8:56:21 GMT -5
Silver lining, apparently two bullpen sessions in Pawtucket and the Red Sox found the Weber they thought they had in the spring? Chris I think that you may possibly be the legendary cockeyed optimist. But we have to find it where we can. Tell that to the folks I tell that their favorite prospect isn't a future 10-time all-star.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 13, 2020 9:05:06 GMT -5
“You look at this team and we still have a really young group of core players that you’d like to see with the Red Sox for a long, long time," Kennedy said. "We’d never label anyone untouchable, just given the fact that sometimes to re-tool and restructure for the future, you do have to sometimes make difficult decisions, as you saw with the Mookie (Betts) transaction. I don’t think anybody would be untouchable as it were, but there are certainly guys who have grown up in the system that we’d like to keep with the Sox for a long, long time.”weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/mlb-trade-rumors-red-sox-have-engaged-with-teams?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 13, 2020 9:16:45 GMT -5
Although we all pretty much knew, that's the first official use of the expression "retool" I have seen.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Aug 13, 2020 10:13:54 GMT -5
Silver lining, apparently two bullpen sessions in Pawtucket and the Red Sox found the Weber they thought they had in the spring? Chris I think that you may possibly be the legendary cockeyed optimist. But we have to find it where we can. The brass announced over the winter that they hopefully had found the key nobody else had previously to fix Weber's issues. It helps to keep a few pounds of salt nearby and apply various amounts whenever bold statements are made sometimes. I'll take the Weber who pitched last night, tho think we'll get the off and on guy like Godley at very best.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2020 10:49:28 GMT -5
How in the world do those three remind you of Panda and Ramirez? Everyone knew about Panda and his weight, massive red flag. Ramirez never played the OF before and was basically not able to play the infield anymore. Again massive red flags. Springer isn't close to those guys, he's closer to Betts than those guys. Bauer is a dick, yet he's an inning eater who is trending up, not down. Stroman is another outspoken type guy, you always worry about pitchers, yet he's likely still much safer than Panda. They could be deals like Damon, Lackey and Price who all helped us win a Championship. Look at the players, not just bad memories. It really comes down to the type of contract they require. I'm eyeing Stroman because I think there's a good chance he take a one year prove it deal. Yet I can get onboard with the other two depending on the contracts. I just feel they are likely to get big long-term deals, yet maybe not in this market. You seem to be either let's try and build a 2018 team or we are rebuilding. I think there's a huge middle ground you keep overlooking. Which is why I brought up 2013. They brought in guys to help, yet didn't go for the elite long-term type guys. It wasn't built like the 2018 team, just a good solid team. A team with a good chance of reaching the postseason, not a near lock to make it. A lot of teams win with Rosters like that win Championship's. If you gut the team you aren't doing anything for years. A retool isn't a rebuild. It's not about waiting for the farm to produce the needed pieces. It's about getting payroll in order and restocking the farm for another run. I'm not against trading Martinez if someone really wants him, I don't think that will happen. Not when he can opt out. You just can't easily replace his bat and our owner only allows retools, not full on rebuilds. You have to get creative if you want to envision what Bloom likely does. We haven't had a GM like him before. I do not like Stroman at all. He has been up and down in his career, and I am always nervous about tiny pitchers (don’t say Pedro!). I hate Bauer as a cancer and as a guy who is going to get paid too much for what he is. And Springer is a good player... but why? He is the wrong side of 31, and, again, will want to be paid like a guy who performs in his two huge seasons and not the others. But fine... sign all three and I’m going to be in hoping they pull it off. I just don’t love the odds. Bloom has so far done... not all that much. I am not sure why so many people assign traits to him and to his vision. We’ll see. I have no idea what he wants to do or will be told to do. Do you notice you have an issue with every option? These signings were your idea, not mine. Every pitcher who isn't an Ace is up and down. You really have the idea of Stroman on a one year deal? Helps you go for it, if it doesn't work out you trade him. Like I said I'm not going after Springer unless it's a horrible market and his deal is small. Yet what two huge seasons? He's been over 5 bwar in three of the last four years. His best year was 2019. You make him sound like Harper, yet he's been much more consistent. The guys worst year with his bat is an OPS+ of 114. If the market is so bad that he takes a 3-4 year deal with an opt out I'd be highly interested. I'll gladly pay for his age 31-34 seasons. I do find the age thing funny when he's only a few years older than Betts. It's our GMs background and what the owner wants. We've seen this now three times under our owner. It's always quick retools not full on rebuilds and given the pieces we have it makes sense. As Chris pointed out the roster isn't playing up to it's true talent right now. It hasn't been many games, it happens in Baseball it's why the season is 162 games, not 60 in normal years. I feel fairly confident they go short term contracts this off-season. Make some creative trades and look towards the 2021 free agent class to spend big if things don't work out in 2021. Yet depending how the market is this year that could change. I'm sure they'll jump at value if it's there. I just don't expect long-term deals.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2020 10:53:19 GMT -5
I never got sending Weber down after his last start because it was easily his best one. At the minimum it makes our manager not look crazy after saying we don't have anyone better to replace Weber, we've finally seen what he was seeing.
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Post by manfred on Aug 13, 2020 11:16:16 GMT -5
I do not like Stroman at all. He has been up and down in his career, and I am always nervous about tiny pitchers (don’t say Pedro!). I hate Bauer as a cancer and as a guy who is going to get paid too much for what he is. And Springer is a good player... but why? He is the wrong side of 31, and, again, will want to be paid like a guy who performs in his two huge seasons and not the others. But fine... sign all three and I’m going to be in hoping they pull it off. I just don’t love the odds. Bloom has so far done... not all that much. I am not sure why so many people assign traits to him and to his vision. We’ll see. I have no idea what he wants to do or will be told to do. Do you notice you have an issue with every option? These signings were your idea, not mine. Every pitcher who isn't an Ace is up and down. You really have the idea of Stroman on a one year deal? Helps you go for it, if it doesn't work out you trade him. Like I said I'm not going after Springer unless it's a horrible market and his deal is small. Yet what two huge seasons? He's been over 5 bwar in three of the last four years. His best year was 2019. You make him sound like Harper, yet he's been much more consistent. The guys worst year with his bat is an OPS+ of 114. If the market is so bad that he takes a 3-4 year deal with an opt out I'd be highly interested. I'll gladly pay for his age 31-34 seasons. I do find the age thing funny when he's only a few years older than Betts. It's our GMs background and what the owner wants. We've seen this now three times under our owner. It's always quick retools not full on rebuilds and given the pieces we have it makes sense. As Chris pointed out the roster isn't playing up to it's true talent right now. It hasn't been many games, it happens in Baseball it's why the season is 162 games, not 60 in normal years. I feel fairly confident they go short term contracts this off-season. Make some creative trades and look towards the 2021 free agent class to spend big if things don't work out in 2021. Yet depending how the market is this year that could change. I'm sure they'll jump at value if it's there. I just don't expect long-term deals. Well, if they can get guys for one-year deals, I don’t care who they sign. I just don’t think one of the better pitching free agents will take that. Maybe Minor for 2? Who knows. But the issue for me is also about opportunity cost. You sign, say, Springer to a healthy 5-year contract, and that means CF (or maybe eventually a corner?) is not open to some other option. This is my problem with the current OF (tho obv Springer is better than any of them): Benny, Verdugo, and JBJ are not collectively good enough to be a really good OF, but they are also hard to sit/ditch/give up on. They are in a kinda mediocre zone. Overall, my point is, too be clear, I want the plan to be a 2-3 year one, not a we-can-do-it next year one. I don’t think they dan do it next year, and I think going all in (my scenario of a big free agent splurge) is as likely to be a setback as a way to being real contenders next year. I mean, look, their current pitching staff has not as single guy in a slot he belongs in. Their 1/2 should 4/5. Their closer (lost, apparently?) is relatively untested. And after that, it is basically all AAAA guys. We can say, well, they’ll have ERod and Sale back up front next year, but we don’t know that. And, truthfully, post-TJ sale, ERod, Eovaldi, Perez, and someone still doesn’t inspire me. I don’t think I’m saying something radical. This team is currently one of the worst in baseball. The pitching needs a massive renovation. And the lineup has been pretty bad... and this is, in fact, their full lineup. They’ve had some typical minor injuries, but this is what it will be.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 13, 2020 11:31:46 GMT -5
I never got sending Weber down after his last start because it was easily his best one. At the minimum it makes our manager not look crazy after saying we don't have anyone better to replace Weber, we've finally seen what he was seeing. Stay tuned. I know that Catfish Hunter pitched well with an 88 mph 'heater', Randy Jones dazzled at 80, and Moyer in the low 80s but....I think that we are wishin' and hopin'.
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Post by manfred on Aug 13, 2020 11:39:21 GMT -5
Wait... everyone is kidding about Weber, right? I mean, we all know he is not good, yeah?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2020 11:39:49 GMT -5
You shouldn't worry then because I don't see them giving anyone five years unless it's dirt cheap. The years are big, yet so is the salary. Big difference in 100 million and 150 million plus.
Guys like Minor could certainly be an option. Want OF help maybe an older guy like Brantley to a short deal. Trade for guys like Cobb in the last year of his deal.
They will try and win, I don't see them going crazy to do it though. Much more like 2013. If it doesn't work you want pieces you can trade to help the farm.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2020 11:56:49 GMT -5
Wait... everyone is kidding about Weber, right? I mean, we all know he is not good, yeah? The guys basically the definition of AAAA pitcher. He's done rather well in AAA over five seasons. Personally if he can give you innings and not get killed he could be pitching depth next year. Think Brian Johnson in 2018. He just has no margin for error with his stuff, he needs to be like Greg Maddux with control and location.
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