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8/10-8/13 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 12:03:15 GMT -5
Something to consider. In a lost season, is the difference in training between being in Boston and being in Pawtucket worth a year's control of Mata and Houke ? Asking for a friend. I don't think that's the only thing holding them back. Why rush them up for this season and risk them not being physically ready? We're seeing pitcher injuries across the game because Summer Camp wasn't long enough. Why risk it with the young guys? I think you want them to get a little more time given the extra down time they had since March. It's not about "training" versus being about physical readiness. I'm reading your post as those being two different things, but correct me if I'm wrong. I am saying it is another factor to take into consideration in addition to what you stated. That factor being the tradeoff of major league experience vs a year of control. In a lost season, I'd rather have the extra year of control over whatever development gains they might get. Yes I would love to watch them in the bigs but if we aren't going anyplace, I can wait.
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Post by manfred on Aug 12, 2020 12:12:21 GMT -5
I can’t believe after watching the first part of this season and discussing whether to rush Mata and Houck (neither of whom project to be frontline starters), people still want to argue this team should be planning to contend next season. Let’s say they decide to fill all their holes and open the checkbooks. Are we happy with this:
Beni LF Verdugo RF X SS Devers 3B JDM DH Springer CF Dalbec 1B CVaz C Chavis 2B
Trevor Bauer Marcus Stroman ERod Eovaldi Perez (Sale at some point)
Mostly the bullpen as it is.
It looks good on paper. But you’d have just put all the savings we had accumulated into Springer, Bauer, and Stroman, in whom I have collectively not much faith. But that is about the best non-trade upgrading you can do before next season, and I still don’t think that makes you a great team... and it sets you up for further issues in the next couple of years.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 12, 2020 12:47:51 GMT -5
I don't think that's the only thing holding them back. Why rush them up for this season and risk them not being physically ready? We're seeing pitcher injuries across the game because Summer Camp wasn't long enough. Why risk it with the young guys? I think you want them to get a little more time given the extra down time they had since March. It's not about "training" versus being about physical readiness. I'm reading your post as those being two different things, but correct me if I'm wrong. I am saying it is another factor to take into consideration in addition to what you stated. That factor being the tradeoff of major league experience vs a year of control. In a lost season, I'd rather have the extra year of control over whatever development gains they might get. Yes I would love to watch them in the bigs but if we aren't going anyplace, I can wait. Fair, but I don't think coming up for some amount of time this year means they need to be up to start next season as well. If Mata is dealing in Pawtucket after a few more starts, I wouldn't mind giving him a little bit of run. He's not coming up just for the sake of coming up though.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 12, 2020 12:53:25 GMT -5
I think we all need to step back a bit. The season, such as it is, has been so disrupted both in training time, with the twisted schedule, with COVID-19 effects on players, with the lack of fans, and lots more were not privy to, that it seems to me to be a test bed and not much beyond that. At least that seems to be the case for the Sox. The throw together relief corps is being auditioned as is the roster of position-players.
There won't be enough asterisks in the books to cover all the contingencies in MLB this year, no matter who comes out on top.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 12, 2020 13:06:41 GMT -5
Dumb question, but in regards to Arauz, the Red Sox in 2021 can send him down, yes? Even though it's a shortened season, it still counts as a full season? What happens if they cancel baseball tomorrow?
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Post by soxin8 on Aug 12, 2020 13:14:23 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 12, 2020 14:35:38 GMT -5
I can’t believe after watching the first part of this season and discussing whether to rush Mata and Houck (neither of whom project to be frontline starters), people still want to argue this team should be planning to contend next season. Let’s say they decide to fill all their holes and open the checkbooks. Are we happy with this: Beni LF Verdugo RF X SS Devers 3B JDM DH Springer CF Dalbec 1B CVaz C Chavis 2B Trevor Bauer Marcus Stroman ERod Eovaldi Perez (Sale at some point) Mostly the bullpen as it is. It looks good on paper. But you’d have just put all the savings we had accumulated into Springer, Bauer, and Stroman, in whom I have collectively not much faith. But that is about the best non-trade upgrading you can do before next season, and I still don’t think that makes you a great team... and it sets you up for further issues in the next couple of years. I don't think they do that unless those guys are taking short-term deals. Yet if you don't like that team, that's because you won't like any team without Betts on it. That would be a darn good team and could easily win a title if things went right.
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Post by manfred on Aug 12, 2020 14:43:40 GMT -5
I can’t believe after watching the first part of this season and discussing whether to rush Mata and Houck (neither of whom project to be frontline starters), people still want to argue this team should be planning to contend next season. Let’s say they decide to fill all their holes and open the checkbooks. Are we happy with this: Beni LF Verdugo RF X SS Devers 3B JDM DH Springer CF Dalbec 1B CVaz C Chavis 2B Trevor Bauer Marcus Stroman ERod Eovaldi Perez (Sale at some point) Mostly the bullpen as it is. It looks good on paper. But you’d have just put all the savings we had accumulated into Springer, Bauer, and Stroman, in whom I have collectively not much faith. But that is about the best non-trade upgrading you can do before next season, and I still don’t think that makes you a great team... and it sets you up for further issues in the next couple of years. I don't think they do that unless those guys are taking short-term deals. Yet if you don't like that team, that's because you won't like any team without Betts on it. That would be a darn good team and could easily win a title if things went right. Forget Betts. I don’t like it because it reminds me of what they did with Panda and Hanley. Blew it with a cornerstone, had money lying around, and said whoever is the best 3B and (gulp) LF out there, we’ll take ‘em (even if they are the best because it is not a great year). My larger point is that without trades — and likely a big one, not just shipping Workman or something — they can’t rebuild completely before 2022. And that means considering trading JDM, particularly. The team has too many holes that are too big for what their system can fill anytime soon.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 12, 2020 14:54:26 GMT -5
I don't think they do that unless those guys are taking short-term deals. Yet if you don't like that team, that's because you won't like any team without Betts on it. That would be a darn good team and could easily win a title if things went right. Forget Betts. I don’t like it because it reminds me of what they did with Panda and Hanley. Blew it with a cornerstone, had money lying around, and said whoever is the best 3B and (gulp) LF out there, we’ll take ‘em (even if they are the best because it is not a great year). My larger point is that without trades — and likely a big one, not just shipping Workman or something — they can’t rebuild completely before 2022. And that means considering trading JDM, particularly. The team has too many holes that are too big for what their system can fill anytime soon. If your strategy is to build for 2022 and beyond, then you need to follow your own logic and trade Xander. He'll surely opt out after 2022, and since signing any expensive free agent for you = Panda/Hanley redux we should basically assume he won't be part of any competitive team after that. Besides, I don't know what you think we can get for trading JDM but it ain't gonna replenish the farm system all on its own. Xander, on the other hand, has some real trade value. You'd probably need to consider trading Devers as well.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 12, 2020 15:20:41 GMT -5
What are chances of Duran getting the call to replace Benny?
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 12, 2020 15:24:30 GMT -5
What are chances of Duran getting the call to replace Benny? Nil. Weber got the call to come back. Makes sense to have bring a pitcher up. They need innings and they’ve got guys that can take over in the outfield (Lin, Peraza, JDM).
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 12, 2020 15:26:32 GMT -5
What are chances of Duran getting the call to replace Benny? Nil. Weber got the call to come back. Makes sense to have bring a pitcher up. They need innings and they’ve got guys that can take over in the outfield (Lin, Peraza, JDM). Ugh. On the positive side, I guess the Sox get their tank commander back.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 12, 2020 15:35:09 GMT -5
They reduced the requirement to 50 days for this season. So he'll be optioned next year (in theory at least... presuming he doesn't win the starting 2B job at this rate...) What are chances of Duran getting the call to replace Benny? Nil. Weber got the call to come back. Makes sense to have bring a pitcher up. They need innings and they’ve got guys that can take over in the outfield (Lin, Peraza, JDM). Don't forget that Pillar just slides into the starting lineup full time, so those guys just need to be backups.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 12, 2020 15:42:31 GMT -5
Yay, Weber is back!!!!!!!!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 12, 2020 17:14:14 GMT -5
I don't think they do that unless those guys are taking short-term deals. Yet if you don't like that team, that's because you won't like any team without Betts on it. That would be a darn good team and could easily win a title if things went right. Forget Betts. I don’t like it because it reminds me of what they did with Panda and Hanley. Blew it with a cornerstone, had money lying around, and said whoever is the best 3B and (gulp) LF out there, we’ll take ‘em (even if they are the best because it is not a great year). My larger point is that without trades — and likely a big one, not just shipping Workman or something — they can’t rebuild completely before 2022. And that means considering trading JDM, particularly. The team has too many holes that are too big for what their system can fill anytime soon. How in the world do those three remind you of Panda and Ramirez? Everyone knew about Panda and his weight, massive red flag. Ramirez never played the OF before and was basically not able to play the infield anymore. Again massive red flags. Springer isn't close to those guys, he's closer to Betts than those guys. Bauer is a dick, yet he's an inning eater who is trending up, not down. Stroman is another outspoken type guy, you always worry about pitchers, yet he's likely still much safer than Panda. They could be deals like Damon, Lackey and Price who all helped us win a Championship. Look at the players, not just bad memories. It really comes down to the type of contract they require. I'm eyeing Stroman because I think there's a good chance he take a one year prove it deal. Yet I can get onboard with the other two depending on the contracts. I just feel they are likely to get big long-term deals, yet maybe not in this market. You seem to be either let's try and build a 2018 team or we are rebuilding. I think there's a huge middle ground you keep overlooking. Which is why I brought up 2013. They brought in guys to help, yet didn't go for the elite long-term type guys. It wasn't built like the 2018 team, just a good solid team. A team with a good chance of reaching the postseason, not a near lock to make it. A lot of teams win with Rosters like that win Championship's. If you gut the team you aren't doing anything for years. A retool isn't a rebuild. It's not about waiting for the farm to produce the needed pieces. It's about getting payroll in order and restocking the farm for another run. I'm not against trading Martinez if someone really wants him, I don't think that will happen. Not when he can opt out. You just can't easily replace his bat and our owner only allows retools, not full on rebuilds. You have to get creative if you want to envision what Bloom likely does. We haven't had a GM like him before.
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Post by manfred on Aug 12, 2020 17:22:25 GMT -5
Forget Betts. I don’t like it because it reminds me of what they did with Panda and Hanley. Blew it with a cornerstone, had money lying around, and said whoever is the best 3B and (gulp) LF out there, we’ll take ‘em (even if they are the best because it is not a great year). My larger point is that without trades — and likely a big one, not just shipping Workman or something — they can’t rebuild completely before 2022. And that means considering trading JDM, particularly. The team has too many holes that are too big for what their system can fill anytime soon. How in the world do those three remind you of Panda and Ramirez? Everyone knew about Panda and his weight, massive red flag. Ramirez never played the OF before and was basically not able to play the infield anymore. Again massive red flags. Springer isn't close to those guys, he's closer to Betts than those guys. Bauer is a dick, yet he's an inning eater who is trending up, not down. Stroman is another outspoken type guy, you always worry about pitchers, yet he's likely still much safer than Panda. They could be deals like Damon, Lackey and Price who all helped us win a Championship. Look at the players, not just bad memories. It really comes down to the type of contract they require. I'm eyeing Stroman because I think there's a good chance he take a one year prove it deal. Yet I can get onboard with the other two depending on the contracts. I just feel they are likely to get big long-term deals, yet maybe not in this market. You seem to be either let's try and build a 2018 team or we are rebuilding. I think there's a huge middle ground you keep overlooking. Which is why I brought up 2013. They brought in guys to help, yet didn't go for the elite long-term type guys. It wasn't built like the 2018 team, just a good solid team. A team with a good chance of reaching the postseason, not a near lock to make it. A lot of teams win with Rosters like that win Championship's. If you gut the team you aren't doing anything for years. A retool isn't a rebuild. It's not about waiting for the farm to produce the needed pieces. It's about getting payroll in order and restocking the farm for another run. I'm not against trading Martinez if someone really wants him, I don't think that will happen. Not when he can opt out. You just can't easily replace his bat and our owner only allows retools, not full on rebuilds. You have to get creative if you want to envision what Bloom likely does. We haven't had a GM like him before. I do not like Stroman at all. He has been up and down in his career, and I am always nervous about tiny pitchers (don’t say Pedro!). I hate Bauer as a cancer and as a guy who is going to get paid too much for what he is. And Springer is a good player... but why? He is the wrong side of 31, and, again, will want to be paid like a guy who performs in his two huge seasons and not the others. But fine... sign all three and I’m going to be in hoping they pull it off. I just don’t love the odds. Bloom has so far done... not all that much. I am not sure why so many people assign traits to him and to his vision. We’ll see. I have no idea what he wants to do or will be told to do.
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Post by Smittyw on Aug 12, 2020 17:37:54 GMT -5
Yay, Weber is back!!!!!!!! Give us a chance to miss him at least.
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Post by Addam603 on Aug 12, 2020 18:41:34 GMT -5
If that’s not a metaphor for the Red Sox season...
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 18:46:42 GMT -5
Christopher Smith @smittyonmlb · 3h Benintendi fell down in between bases yesterday. He strained his right rib cage and is going on the IL.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 12, 2020 18:56:03 GMT -5
If that’s not a metaphor for the Red Sox season... That’s a stupid design for a first baseman’s mitt. A pocket with open areas like that is eventually going to have a ball get stuck just like that.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 12, 2020 18:58:17 GMT -5
How is it possible that the sox are stuck with a bunch of junk ballers, at a time in MLB where it seems like everyone throws 95+?
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Post by station13 on Aug 12, 2020 19:01:43 GMT -5
This team is only good at being terrible.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 12, 2020 19:03:19 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Aug 12, 2020 19:03:59 GMT -5
This pitching - except for Eovaldi, Hembree Barnes and Workman - is just embarrassing.
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 12, 2020 19:07:17 GMT -5
Can we start talking to teams about trades now? Not sure with everyone in a funk we have much to offer.
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