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8/14-8/17 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by juanfatj on Aug 15, 2020 15:40:48 GMT -5
1 RF Kevin Pillar 2 3B Rafael Devers 3 DH J.D. Martinez 4 SS Xander Bogaerts 5 C Christian Vazquez 6 LF Alex Verdugo 7 1B Michael Chavis 8 CF Jackie Bradley 9 2B Jose Peraza
SP:Nathan Eovaldi
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 15, 2020 15:53:23 GMT -5
I would bet that Nats fans don't agree with you. Their successful decade got jumpstarted by the drafting of Strasburg and Harper. And the Astros despite missing on Appel used it to their advantage as well. The Rays got their only pennant with David Price on the mound in relief. There are some franchise caliber players on that list which doesn't even include Casey Mize - don't you wish the Red Sox had a pitching prospect of that caliber? I mean, is going 27-33 really better than going 20-40 so you can get what's more likely lesser talent? I mean, you can put that same list above out for the say, #8 pick of the draft, and I'm sure you'll get some gems, but most likely that list on average is lesser than the list you compiled above - and that's with the Brian Bullington's on the world.
Keep in mind some of the teams that picked first picked first because they had awful decision makers on top and those decision makers were staffed with guys who weren't as good at decision making (ie, scouting and drafting the best talent with their pick or not willing to spend the money) which is what got them to the bottom in the first place. If Bloom and the staff at his disposal are going to build championship caliber teams then it's not too tall a task to ask them to pick the top talent with the top pick of the country. That's their job - to correctly evaluate talent, not just major league talent, but college and high school as well. Is it fool proof? No, but looking at some of the potential HOF discussion caliber names on that list, that's a doable proposition picking from the #1 spot. If you're going to suck you might as well do in a shortened season where the misery isn't dragged out for 162 games, especially for a season that is kind of an abomination of a season anyways. So frankly, I couldn't care less if the Sox lose every damn game they play this year. They're going to do that mostly anyways with this awful pitching staff they threw together. It was obvious that ownership didn't care about winning in 2020 so why should I? Good question. Let's see - here are the #8 picks for the same years: 2015: Carson Fulmer 2014: Kyle Freeland 2013: Hunter Dozier 2012: Mark Appel (that guy...) 2011: Francisco Lindor 2010: Delino DeShields 2009: Mike Leake 2008: Gordon Beckham 2007: Casey Weathers 2006: Robert Stubbs 2005: Wade Townsend 2004: Wade Townsend (weird) 2003: Paul Maholm 2002: Scott Moore 2001: John van Benschoten 2000: Matthew Wheatland Yikes! One superstar, and then the next best is... Delino DeShields, I guess? Well now you've convinced me that tanking really isn't worth it, because it's baseball and there are no sure things ever. I mean it goes without saying that the better your draft position, the better your odds of hitting on a winner. But the relative advantages here are just not that substantial, certainly compared to other sports. Thanks for doing the work on those #8 picks of the draft (and the #1s) as well. It actually proved my point better than I thought it would. Lindor is fantastic, but the overall quality is much lower than that of the #1 picks. Going from memory (just bought some baseball cards that featured #1s) there was Ken Griffey, Jr, Darryl Strawberry, A-Rod, Chipper Jones, Harold Baines, Joe Mauer, and Adrian Gonzalez as well, along with guys like Pat Burrell, Shawon Dunston, BJ Surhoff, Mike Moore, Bob Horner, Darin Erstad, Jeff Burroughs, Andy Benes, and Phil Nevin who were regulars with all-star appearances. So while there were Al Chambers (flame out) selections and Brien Taylors (dumb injury) out there on the list, there were some franchise altering players/cornerstone and some lesser players that were all-stars and really valuable. Yup, you can get a Mike Trout 24th (or was it 27th), or luck out into Mike Piazza, but you have to like your odds better with that top spot in the draft.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 15:57:55 GMT -5
We could learn a lot about how Bloom runs things in the next few weeks. Warner said they anticipate selling (if i read that correctly). Whom he decides to keep and move will be very telling, if they end up active.
I will say it again, although ERod and Sale are an unknown at this time, there is a chance they could come back and be very strong. If that is the case, and wholesale changes occur now, we will have screwed up this team and you likely won't see another competitive Sox team until 2023.
That is too long for me. Very good players in this organization, with some holes and changes to address. No reason to get trigger happy on the trades. I am not for trading for all prospect currency either, we need major league ready players also.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 15, 2020 16:08:58 GMT -5
Martin Perez comes to mind. 2-2 3.38 era. And mind you he was brought in to be the #4 or 5. I actually like Plawecki a lot. Not a huge move, but a ridiculous step ip offensively from Leon. Really, I don't know how anyone can be disappointed in what we've seen from Bloom so far. Plawecki, Pillar, Arauz, Perez - that looks like a damn fine job of rounding out the roster, the thing Dombrowski was just totally disinterested in. So far Peraza's the only clunker. And it's really not fair to judge his work on the pitching staff. There's not one guy who's working in their proper role right now. If not for a literal plague descending on the pitchers, we'd have E. Rodriguez, obviously, plus a bullpen bolstered by Darwinzon, McHugh in some role, and Phillips Valdez would look like a nice addition to round it out. Certainly the team needs to work on building more pitching depth, but that's a multi-year project, and Bloom's made a good start of it.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 16:57:10 GMT -5
I actually like Plawecki a lot. Not a huge move, but a ridiculous step ip offensively from Leon. Really, I don't know how anyone can be disappointed in what we've seen from Bloom so far. Plawecki, Pillar, Arauz, Perez - that looks like a damn fine job of rounding out the roster, the thing Dombrowski was just totally disinterested in. So far Peraza's the only clunker. And it's really not fair to judge his work on the pitching staff. There's not one guy who's working in their proper role right now. If not for a literal plague descending on the pitchers, we'd have E. Rodriguez, obviously, plus a bullpen bolstered by Darwinzon, McHugh in some role, and Phillips Valdez would look like a nice addition to round it out. Certainly the team needs to work on building more pitching depth, but that's a multi-year project, and Bloom's made a good start of it. As little moves, even with uneven results, I’d add Osich and Brice. Brice has not been good, but I am impressed by both of their arms, at least. To your point, if the staff were full(er) strength, having them behind Hernandez and Taylor would give a pretty deep set of power arms. In short, this team is actually deeper than it has been for reserve guys, role guys, and platoon types. It is the front line pieces that are either missing (injury, Covid, trade etc) or not performing.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 15, 2020 17:46:08 GMT -5
I will say it again, although ERod and Sale are an unknown at this time, there is a chance they could come back and be very strong. If that is the case, and wholesale changes occur now, we will have screwed up this team and you likely won't see another competitive Sox team until 2023. That is too long for me. Very good players in this organization, with some holes and changes to address. No reason to get trigger happy on the trades. I am not for trading for all prospect currency either, we need major league ready players also. Sure there is. But there is also a chance they come back not near what they've been. Then what happens? The Sox prospects for pitching is not good when it comes to top tier starters. So what are we going to do? The two guys I recommend trading now Vaz and Devers -- we're going to get at least two very high level prospects, one very good god prospect and good prospect is my guess. So come 2022 there is a good chance we're all excited as fans watching the young kids come up-- but there is a good chance we can see in pro ball the super potential of our young team. Then ofc we can start to aggressively pursue FA's as well with a long-term vision of being among the best in baseball. VS if Sale and ERod do not come near-as good - you just lost a year or maybe 2 for trading guys like Vaz and maybe Devers. Even if you don't trade Devers- then you have what to offer as trade bait if Sox don't do well next year? Or even if they are healthy -- are good but not as you point out is "very strong" then we're going to be what-- "a few games over .500?" I suppose maybe better if everyone hits their higher peak play. What;s the chances of them being a little contender next year? IMO anyone that says "good" - imo that's a bad bet. IMO your hope of them being "very strong" along with Eovladi being healthy -- overall to bet on our Big 3 being "very strong" or 2 of 3" with one being pretty good" is a bad bet. This only prolongs the rebuild which might now mean 2023 or even 2024 because we took the bad bet and relied on the Big 3. On the flip side, as I've mentioned, imo we can get 4 new prospects now of which a couple could be terrific long-term. I prefer this bet. ***IMO when you see you can no longer be a threat to win a championship - you need to aggressively cut and run if you can. And stay away from mediocrity unless you have the farm system to keep improving.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 17:53:34 GMT -5
Watching game tonight. Could get ugly, but i am psyched after MLB issues.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:08:10 GMT -5
calling for big Devers game tonight, out of desperation.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:12:57 GMT -5
Sure there is. But there is also a chance they come back not near what they've been. Then what happens? The Sox prospects for pitching is not good when it comes to top tier starters. So what are we going to do? The two guys I recommend trading now Vaz and Devers -- we're going to get at least two very high level prospects, one very good god prospect and good prospect is my guess. So come 2022 there is a good chance we're all excited as fans watching the young kids come up-- but there is a good chance we can see in pro ball the super potential of our young team. Then ofc we can start to aggressively pursue FA's as well with a long-term vision of being among the best in baseball. VS if Sale and ERod do not come near-as good - you just lost a year or maybe 2 for trading guys like Vaz and maybe Devers. Even if you don't trade Devers- then you have what to offer as trade bait if Sox don't do well next year? Or even if they are healthy -- are good but not as you point out is "very strong" then we're going to be what-- "a few games over .500?" I suppose maybe better if everyone hits their higher peak play. What;s the chances of them being a little contender next year? IMO anyone that says "good" - imo that's a bad bet. IMO your hope of them being "very strong" along with Eovladi being healthy -- overall to bet on our Big 3 being "very strong" or 2 of 3" with one being pretty good" is a bad bet. This only prolongs the rebuild which might now mean 2023 or even 2024 because we took the bad bet and relied on the Big 3. On the flip side, as I've mentioned, imo we can get 4 new prospects now of which a couple could be terrific long-term. I prefer this bet. ***IMO when you see you can no longer be a threat to win a championship - you need to aggressively cut and run if you can. And stay away from mediocrity unless you have the farm system to keep improving. i definitely uunderstand that those 2 have good value and may fetch a good return, but they are, to me, the foundation for the future. Without asets like that, you could be starting from place worse than you are right now. I would not do it.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:17:35 GMT -5
terrible 2-0 strike call, changed the at bat.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 15, 2020 18:26:26 GMT -5
I'm rooting for a strong outing by Eovaldi, but still lose. I'm hoping they can trade him and make this team something truly special.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:27:34 GMT -5
Good Lord. That is a bunch of bullshit.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 15, 2020 18:27:43 GMT -5
Hmm. Maybe they don't have to in order to be something special.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 18:31:11 GMT -5
Hot take: Eovaldi is not very good. Incredible arm, but just never gets it together.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:31:34 GMT -5
If we get swept here and lost 7 straight these mofo's, I don't care about the final record. I will GD pissed off.
Paxton has nothing, for crying out loud.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:32:47 GMT -5
Hot take: Eovaldi is not very good. Incredible arm, but just never gets it together. I am more concerned with how this career backup can bat cleanup and take something the other way like that. The MFY are cheating and I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:35:15 GMT -5
Alright, I am a little too amped up right now. My apologies. But that was more BS.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 15, 2020 18:35:58 GMT -5
Hot take: Eovaldi is not very good. Incredible arm, but just never gets it together. I am more concerned with how this career backup can bat cleanup and take something the other way like that. The MFY are cheating and I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. I am not responding to the first inning. More the fact that it feels like he’ll have long awesome stretches in a game but finds bad moments. Mostly being wistful.... how does a guy with this stuff give up so many hits? Career just over 1 per inning. Odd.
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 15, 2020 18:37:41 GMT -5
Hot take: Eovaldi is not very good. Incredible arm, but just never gets it together. not sure how hot that take is...I think many have noticed for years that his results have never really matched his stuff.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:44:02 GMT -5
Gardner is public enemy #1, personified, for me. Just the mere sight of him is irritating as all heck.
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Post by station13 on Aug 15, 2020 18:49:56 GMT -5
Gardner is public enemy #1, personified, for me. Just the mere sight of him is irritating as all heck. Voit is taking over that.
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Post by station13 on Aug 15, 2020 18:51:53 GMT -5
Devers starting to come out of it.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:52:49 GMT -5
Xander needs to be looking at taking the first pitch the other way, if the walk goes through, which it will.
I was wrong. Are you sh**ing me ? Come on now !!!!!
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 15, 2020 18:54:24 GMT -5
I do need Paxton to continue to suck to win other arguments I have going on.
Even when the Red Sox do something right, they put an asterisk on it.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 15, 2020 18:56:19 GMT -5
Take that MFY's !!!!
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