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Red Sox Trade Mitch Moreland to the Padres
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Post by manfred on Aug 30, 2020 12:49:00 GMT -5
Are you saying Potts and Rosario should be higher? Or lower? Or are you commenting on the lack of a Seabold ranking? Thinking more, I could talk myself into Potts at 6. Not there myself but I see it. But there really is some good depth in the system now, too much for me to put Rosario at #8. I would put Seabold behind Ward/Houck and ahead of the next group (Aldo, Murphy, Zeferjahn, etc). Either way, it's a very solid haul for Moreland and I am on board. It is interesting that Potts seems universally ranked ahead of Rosario, but the writeups are more encouraging with Rosario. Is it that Potts’s one plus is such a huge plus and Rosario is more the kinda unpolished great athlete-type?
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Post by beasleyrockah on Aug 30, 2020 13:08:43 GMT -5
This might be my favorite Red Sox trade in a while based on the team's situation and value added vs. value lost. Even if both guys bust and never make the MLB, this is a very good trade in terms of process. Clearing a big role for Dalbec is a nice side benefit.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 30, 2020 13:31:29 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with Beasley. I like this trade much better than the Workman trade in particular. We really had no need for Moreland and got a couple solid OF prospects which is a need in our system.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 30, 2020 15:29:48 GMT -5
Padres:
now have 2 LHB 1B. Hosmer & Mitch. Mitch: DH INF RHB FRANCE is now their 10th man. Plays when Mitch sits, etc.
If the DH ends, they won't carry both 1B into next season. Hosmer has 5 years left on his big contract. Hafta think the SD ballpark isn't a great match for Moreland.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 30, 2020 15:55:47 GMT -5
Thinking more, I could talk myself into Potts at 6. Not there myself but I see it. But there really is some good depth in the system now, too much for me to put Rosario at #8. I would put Seabold behind Ward/Houck and ahead of the next group (Aldo, Murphy, Zeferjahn, etc). Either way, it's a very solid haul for Moreland and I am on board. It is interesting that Potts seems universally ranked ahead of Rosario, but the writeups are more encouraging with Rosario. Is it that Potts’s one plus is such a huge plus and Rosario is more the kinda unpolished great athlete-type? Even with age considerations, an .071 isolated slugging in the California League is legitimately worrisome, especially when paired with a K rate up over 20%. It indicates he's waiting for his pitch, but then he's not really doing anything with it when he gets it. So even with the good pitch recognition and patience, they won't play or mean much if he can't punish enough pitches to keep pitchers from just challenging him. Think Alex Hassan, for example. He's young enough and athletic enough for that to come together, but he's much farther from that happening. EDIT: But lest I sound negative on him, this is the #2 guy in a deal for a month of Mitch Moreland. He's going to have three option years to figure it out. If any power develops between now and 2024, with that plate recognition and athleticism? He has very, very serious potential to be an impact player.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 30, 2020 16:47:07 GMT -5
Don’t forget these guys could be used in the future to get pitching or whoever.
I can’t wait for more to move, there could be Vas, Pillar, JBJ, Barnes, JDM, Perez,.
On Bleacher there saying maybe even Evoladi, I doubt this.
You can have potentially 6 more deals. But the more deals the more work to do to build this.
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 30, 2020 16:56:04 GMT -5
We haven't heard from the Bloom haters today....hmmmm.
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Post by chr31ter on Aug 30, 2020 17:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 30, 2020 17:38:02 GMT -5
Prospect1500 writer that I think specializes in the Padres: Sancheeze alex_W_Sanchez · 31m Rosario is the more exciting guy. Hasn’t done a lot yet but shows a nice approach and is young. I think he might be the guy that really shines in this deal. It’s a decent haul for Mitch Moreland. I’d be pretty happy as a Sox fan.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 30, 2020 17:57:42 GMT -5
We haven't heard from the Bloom haters today....hmmmm. Hater more aptly. But I’m waiting to hear how the Red Sox didn’t get a top 10 prospect in baseball for Moreland.
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Post by soxin8 on Aug 30, 2020 18:41:31 GMT -5
This is the way I felt after hearing and looking at the trade. I believe ramireja first mentioned Rosario as someone who would be a nice get in the Betts to SD discussion. I am not a scout and I'm not advocating for rankings here, but Rosario looks like he has a better package to me. It looks as if they both still have some work to do at AA. I think you have to protect Seabold but is it automatic that both Rosario and Potts go on the 40 man when their ETA could be 2023?
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 30, 2020 18:49:38 GMT -5
This is the way I felt after hearing and looking at the trade. I believe ramireja first mentioned Rosario as someone who would be a nice get in the Betts to SD discussion. I am not a scout and I'm not advocating for rankings here, but Rosario looks like he has a better package to me. It looks as if they both still have some work to do at AA. I think you have to protect Seabold but is it automatic that both Rosario and Potts go on the 40 man when their ETA could be 2023? I think yes. Much potential for both. And you don;t for 2 guys and then let exposed to be taken by anyone in rules 5. I can't see that happening, unless some issues develop in the next few months (highly unlikely).
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Post by dirtdog on Aug 30, 2020 19:28:27 GMT -5
We haven't heard from the Bloom haters today....hmmmm. Dont understand why Bloom has haters. He inherited a super star player who wouldnt commit to staying, a crippled pitching staff, an aging mess of a roster, and a boss that told him to cut payroll. Were people expecting a repeat of 2018? I'll give him 3 years personally.
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Post by dirtdog on Aug 30, 2020 19:33:04 GMT -5
As far as the Moreland trade goes, I would say Bloom did OK based on the leverage he had. A 35 year old first baseman under contract for the rest of the year to a club on the rise that is going for it. Would have liked a bigger haul? Of course but based on the leverage he had it was probably the best he could do. If he dumps Vasquez to NYM I would expect at least a top 10 prospect though.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Aug 30, 2020 20:38:45 GMT -5
Didn't make this connection earlier, but Hudson Potts was on the AFL team this past fall that the Red Sox and Padres shared (Peoria).
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TearsIn04
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 30, 2020 22:05:08 GMT -5
MLB is listing Rosario at No. 16 in the RS system and Potts at 20. This seems lazy. They had Potts at 16 and Rosario at 19 in the Pads' system. How could they be in roughly the same spots - Potts, in fact four spots lower - in the not-great RS system than they were in the loaded Pads' system?
MLB has Seabold at 23.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 31, 2020 1:21:53 GMT -5
MLB is listing Rosario at No. 16 in the RS system and Potts at 20. This seems lazy. They had Potts at 16 and Rosario at 19 in the Pads' system. How could they be in roughly the same spots - Potts, in fact four spots lower - in the not-great RS system than they were in the loaded Pads' system? MLB has Seabold at 23. The Red Sox have a fairly strong 11-20, especially with those two added. The huge difference in systems in more the top end than 11-20. Go look at who's there, if you want to go upside than maybe drop Chatham. The rest seems like splitting hairs right now.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 31, 2020 9:11:44 GMT -5
Eh, a walk driven OBP and even then, a low OPS, pretty consistently during this three seasons in low minors (where the walks may be a function of bad pitching) is not that exciting.
Potts sounds more interesting, as he's shown power, and is consistently above his age bracket, so there's a chance his hit tool makes him a Dalbec type.
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Post by manfred on Aug 31, 2020 9:24:10 GMT -5
Eh, a walk driven OBP and even then, a low OPS, pretty consistently during this three seasons in low minors (where the walks may be a function of bad pitching) is not that exciting. Potts sounds more interesting, as he's shown power, and is consistently above his age bracket, so there's a chance his hit tool makes him a Dalbec type. I can’t comment too much on these guys, since I’ve never seen them. One thing in the abstract that gets under my skin is weighing OPS too much with guys with plus speed. If a guy steal 40 bases, he’s basically turned 40 singles into doubles. So if, say, Duran had a decent OBP but his slugging was low and dropped his OPS, I don’t worry as much as with a guy who is not running.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 31, 2020 9:24:54 GMT -5
Eh, a walk driven OBP and even then, a low OPS, pretty consistently during this three seasons in low minors (where the walks may be a function of bad pitching) is not that exciting. Potts sounds more interesting, as he's shown power, and is consistently above his age bracket, so there's a chance his hit tool makes him a Dalbec type. Rosario and Jimenez sound similar except for the big difference that Rosario has the batting eye judgment that Jimenez doesn't have while Jimenez sounds like he has the hit tool that Rosario has yet to really show. They both have plus speed and very little power. I wonder which one gets further and is more likely to be able to start rather than be a #4 OF.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 31, 2020 9:31:34 GMT -5
I've not seen them either, so am just scouting stats. But 8, 18 and 11 SB and 41 career 2bs in 3 seasons don't scream plus speed. I've been burned too much by the Cole Brannen's of the world. How many light BA guys actually develop a hit tool?
Jimenez has shown both hit skills (.319 in the DR, .359 in Lowell) and pop. He sounds nothing like Rosario.
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Post by manfred on Aug 31, 2020 9:47:02 GMT -5
I've not seen them either, so am just scouting stats. But 8, 18 and 11 SB and 41 career 2bs in 3 seasons don't scream plus speed. I've been burned too much by the Cole Brannen's of the world. How many light BA guys actually develop a hit tool? Jimenez has shown both hit skills (.319 in the DR, .359 in Lowell) and pop. He sounds nothing like Rosario. Yeah, I wasn’t necessarily meaning Rosario, though he is alleged to have plus speed. I assume he just needs to learn better how to steal. I meant broadly that OPS overvalues slugging in cases where guys get extra bases by stealing. There are not a ton of those guys these days, I grant, which is too bad. Add: to take an extreme example, Vince Coleman’s career 162 game averages were 168 hits, of which 35 were extra bases. So his slugging was .345, and his OPS+ was 83. Not so hot. But... his stolen base average was 89. Figure most of those are second base, suddenly 133 singles becomes 44 singles (or so). Yeah, he got thrown out a good deal, so that complicates it in ways beyond my math. Still, it suggests to me that his OPS figures badly undervalue him.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 31, 2020 9:51:33 GMT -5
I've not seen them either, so am just scouting stats. But 8, 18 and 11 SB and 41 career 2bs in 3 seasons don't scream plus speed. I've been burned too much by the Cole Brannen's of the world. How many light BA guys actually develop a hit tool? Jimenez has shown both hit skills (.319 in the DR, .359 in Lowell) and pop. He sounds nothing like Rosario. + Speed doesn’t necessarily translate to high SB totals Hell even the guy used as an example (Gilberto) is only 30 for 50 in his career and I’ve seen double + (even an 80) thrown on his speed Also he was super young for his league and had hit for solid averages prior I’m intrigued by the plate discipline
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 31, 2020 10:12:24 GMT -5
Both Potts and Rosario were very, very aggressively pushed by the Padres (consider that Potts made it to AA at age 19). For Potts in particular, it was to such a degree that I wonder if they did it at the time to try and artificially inflate his trade value (a thing teams do - analytical systems would then factor that the guy is playing way above his head and putting up a decent line, etc.). Consider, for example, that Rosario is less than a year older than Jimenez. Honestly, if Potts had been in High A last year, rather than returning to Double-A, that would have him on a normal progression. Meanwhile, Rosario skipped the DSL and played his first year in the AZL, then went to Low A and then High A, which is about as reasonably aggressive as you can get with a guy.
Jimenez stuck out to me as an interesting comparison for Rosario as well, although the latter is apparently a much better defender and may wind up plus out in center. But the speed and concerning lack of pop is there for both, although Jimenez has the better hit tool and switch hits. And I wouldn't worry too much about a lack of steals for a young guy as a determining factor in whether he has speed or not. Jimenez has 70 or 80 speed and only stole 14 bases in 20 attempts last year. Younger guys need to learn how to steal bases.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Aug 31, 2020 11:13:57 GMT -5
From a Fangraphs chat on feb 12:
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