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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2021 16:07:44 GMT -5
The Mariners claimed Marcus Wilson so yes, he's no longer in the Red Sox organization.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2021 16:17:27 GMT -5
Wilson is an interesting case. I mean, they have had issues in the OF, he was on the 40-man, and he still never got a sniff. But this is a guy who cracked the top-20, too (granted at a low moment). He was ranked around German, Gambrell, Potts. He seems like a good example of how depth can be eyewash. It is hard even to call him outfield depth if he couldn’t be in the discussion at any point this season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 2, 2021 16:32:38 GMT -5
40-man/26-man/bullpen-down-the-stretch question: Does anyone have an update on Eduard Bazardo? or Ryan Brasier? This may be a dumb question, but I will ask it anyway - what is the point of a 40 man roster? Why not just have a 26 man roster and the rest of them are minor leaguers? I don't really understand its purpose. The players on the reserve list are the ones using options and such. If you're not on the 40 you get exposed to rule 5. If you are you need to cheat waivers before coming off. It's basically a mechanism to keep teams from boarding players at first blush but that's not something I've ever thought much about.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 2, 2021 17:12:43 GMT -5
This may be a dumb question, but I will ask it anyway - what is the point of a 40 man roster? Why not just have a 26 man roster and the rest of them are minor leaguers? I don't really understand its purpose. Well it's been around for 100+ years so there's that answer. But more specifically, what I would say is that it gives teams the flexibility to carry a taxi squad of players while at the same time giving the players flexibility to find a new home if they can't stay on the 40-man. Otherwise there'd be no repercussions if the teams wanted to send someone to the minors.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 2, 2021 17:22:52 GMT -5
This may be a dumb question, but I will ask it anyway - what is the point of a 40 man roster? Why not just have a 26 man roster and the rest of them are minor leaguers? I don't really understand its purpose. Well it's been around for 100+ years so there's that answer. But more specifically, what I would say is that it gives teams the flexibility to carry a taxi squad of players while at the same time giving the players flexibility to find a new home if they can't stay on the 40-man. Otherwise there'd be no repercussions if the teams wanted to send someone to the minors. Fair, I guess I was just stuck in my Red Sox fan perspective of "I want all of these good players to stay in the organization, it's unfair we have to lose them"
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 2, 2021 18:12:18 GMT -5
Agreed, one thing that's certain is that Bloom makes managing the 40-man roster stressful. Have we ever had 20 pages worth of discussion on the 40-man roster before?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 4, 2021 23:01:17 GMT -5
The Mariners claimed Marcus Wilson so yes, he's no longer in the Red Sox organization. What a waste.
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 4, 2021 23:08:18 GMT -5
The Mariners claimed Marcus Wilson so yes, he's no longer in the Red Sox organization. What a waste. I honestly believe we should of called him up instead of Duran to see if he could of gained any value or maybe even earned his stay. I love Duran and i’m all for him getting ABs and getting better but if marcus was hitting .250 right now i think we would of been happy to have him and if he was trash then you could of let him walk for nothing or maybe even traded him for someone who saw him hit major league pitching and wanted to take a flyer, even if it was for a lower level guy just to get something in return.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 4, 2021 23:15:43 GMT -5
I honestly believe we should of called him up instead of Duran to see if he could of gained any value or maybe even earned his stay. I love Duran and i’m all for him getting ABs and getting better but if marcus was hitting .250 right now i think we would of been happy to have him and if he was trash then you could of let him walk for nothing or maybe even traded him for someone who saw him hit major league pitching and wanted to take a flyer, even if it was for a lower level guy just to get something in return. Marcus Wilson wasn't even hitting .250 in Worcester. Duran was at .270 and Wilson at .242. I don't suspect Wilson would be hitting .250 in Boston. The Red Sox called up the right guy.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 4, 2021 23:50:50 GMT -5
The Red Sox likely spent a good amount of time during trade deadline discussions gauging Wilson's trade value and found it was nil. He was a pretty obvious trade candidate and for them to not even be able to deal him for cash considerations is telling. They got Victor Santos for CJ Chatham. They got Zach Bryant for Josh Freaking Osich. Bloom typically gets something for guys. It's not like Bloom got to the trade deadline and suddenly was like "oh wait, I need a 40-man spot? Crap!!" and just threw a dart at a 40-man roster, hitting Wilson and deciding to DFA him. This isn't quite "In Bill We Trust," but Bloom has already built up enough cache with around-the-fringes type moves that if he can't trade a guy, it's unlikely it's for lack of trying.
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 5, 2021 2:58:20 GMT -5
The Red Sox likely spent a good amount of time during trade deadline discussions gauging Wilson's trade value and found it was nil. He was a pretty obvious trade candidate and for them to not even be able to deal him for cash considerations is telling. They got Victor Santos for CJ Chatham. They got Zach Bryant for Josh Freaking Osich. Bloom typically gets something for guys. It's not like Bloom got to the trade deadline and suddenly was like "oh wait, I need a 40-man spot? Crap!!" and just threw a dart at a 40-man roster, hitting Wilson and deciding to DFA him. This isn't quite "In Bill We Trust," but Bloom has already built up enough cache with around-the-fringes type moves that if he can't trade a guy, it's unlikely it's for lack of trying. If he was called up instead of Duran he would of built some value. That’s what i was getting at. Then call Duran up. 35-40 at bats would of got us somebody. No way he’s going to hit worse then Duran did in his first 40 At bats.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 5, 2021 6:05:09 GMT -5
I honestly believe we should of called him up instead of Duran to see if he could of gained any value or maybe even earned his stay. I love Duran and i’m all for him getting ABs and getting better but if marcus was hitting .250 right now i think we would of been happy to have him and if he was trash then you could of let him walk for nothing or maybe even traded him for someone who saw him hit major league pitching and wanted to take a flyer, even if it was for a lower level guy just to get something in return. Marcus Wilson wasn't even hitting .250 in Worcester. Duran was at .270 and Wilson at .242. I don't suspect Wilson would be hitting .250 in Boston. The Red Sox called up the right guy. Batting average? Wilson had a .370 obp. Might have been much worse in mlb, but quoting batting average along is a weak move.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 5, 2021 6:07:20 GMT -5
The Red Sox likely spent a good amount of time during trade deadline discussions gauging Wilson's trade value and found it was nil. He was a pretty obvious trade candidate and for them to not even be able to deal him for cash considerations is telling. They got Victor Santos for CJ Chatham. They got Zach Bryant for Josh Freaking Osich. Bloom typically gets something for guys. It's not like Bloom got to the trade deadline and suddenly was like "oh wait, I need a 40-man spot? Crap!!" and just threw a dart at a 40-man roster, hitting Wilson and deciding to DFA him. This isn't quite "In Bill We Trust," but Bloom has already built up enough cache with around-the-fringes type moves that if he can't trade a guy, it's unlikely it's for lack of trying. If he was called up instead of Duran he would of built some value. That’s what i was getting at. Then call Duran up. 35-40 at bats would of got us somebody. No way he’s going to hit worse then Duran did in his first 40 At bats. I would respectfully disagree with pretty much all of this. Teams don't trade for guys because of what they do in 40 MLB at-bats, for one thing, and yes, it's very possible he could have done worse than Duran. He's got way more swing and miss and isn't a good defender either.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 5, 2021 6:13:06 GMT -5
Marcus Wilson wasn't even hitting .250 in Worcester. Duran was at .270 and Wilson at .242. I don't suspect Wilson would be hitting .250 in Boston. The Red Sox called up the right guy. Batting average? Wilson had a .370 obp. Might have been much worse in mlb, but quoting batting average along is a weak move. I mean, ok. Duran .270/.365/.561, 23.7% k rate Cordero .329/.411/.545, 29.5% k rate Wilson .242/.370/.452, 33.2% k rate
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 5, 2021 6:28:34 GMT -5
Marcus Wilson wasn't even hitting .250 in Worcester. Duran was at .270 and Wilson at .242. I don't suspect Wilson would be hitting .250 in Boston. The Red Sox called up the right guy. Batting average? Wilson had a .370 obp. Might have been much worse in mlb, but quoting batting average along is a weak move. I think the point is that Wilson performed worse than Duran and Cordero and has an even more questionable hit tool, and those guys are struggling at the big league level
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 5, 2021 8:07:22 GMT -5
I honestly believe we should have called him up instead of Duran to see if he could have gained any value or maybe even earned his stay. I love Duran and i’m all for his getting ABs and getting better but if marcus were hitting .250 right now, i think we would have been happy to have him. And if he were trash then you could have let him walk for nothing. Or maybe even traded him for someone who saw him hit major league pitching and wanted to take a flyer, even if it was for a lower level guy just to get something in return. Touched it up a bit. Good post otherwise.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2021 8:44:44 GMT -5
Brutal to think the Sox go from potential great trade piece in peak Swihart to ruining Swihart, trading for Marcus Wilson, to having a guy who can’t being back anything.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 5, 2021 8:54:24 GMT -5
Batting average? Wilson had a .370 obp. Might have been much worse in mlb, but quoting batting average along is a weak move. I think the point is that Wilson performed worse than Duran and Cordero and has an even more questionable hit tool, and those guys are struggling at the big league level Fine, but don't try to make the point by quoting batting average.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 5, 2021 9:20:55 GMT -5
I think the point is that Wilson performed worse than Duran and Cordero and has an even more questionable hit tool, and those guys are struggling at the big league level Fine, but don't try to make the point by quoting batting average. I mean it usually doesn’t work out that you hit for a higher average in the majors than you do in AAA, I think it’s fair to call out the unreasonable expectation that he would have had a better batting average at the major league level. Especially when he would probably be making even less contact Also he wasn’t the one who initially brought up batting average…
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 14, 2021 1:20:08 GMT -5
So, the Marwin DFA clears a spot for Sale.
They need a spot for Brasier, almost certainly one for DeShields, and very likely one for Munoz, who versatility makes him a valuable backup in case guys get hurt. Remember, he has an option left.
Santana will either be DFA'd or, more likely, end up on the 60-day IL. The latter would make it legal to add DeShields to the post-season roster even though he won't be on the 40-man on August 31.
Mata seems very likely to be moved to the 60-day IL.
The third roster move would be to put Andriese on the 60-day IL if his rehab is unimpressive, or to DFA Rosario.
I'd think they would add Munoz to the 40-man by 8/31 so they wouldn't have to justify his eligibility with shenanigans.
So, maybe:
1) Brasier off 60-day list, Santana on, retroactive to July 22.
2) Munoz selected and optioned, Mata to 60-day IL.
3) Andriese to 60-day IL, retroactive to July 10, or Rosario (or Robles, etc.) DFA.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 14, 2021 7:36:59 GMT -5
I honestly think they DFA Rosario and maybe even Potts before putting Mata on the 60 day
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 14, 2021 8:41:43 GMT -5
I don't see how putting Mata on the 60-day affects next year, 2022.
He comes off 60-day in October. Gets optioned in spring. Back on Milb IL.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 14, 2021 10:17:33 GMT -5
I honestly think they DFA Rosario and maybe even Potts before putting Mata on the 60 day It's only a few weeks of service time for Mata at this point. Your odds of losing Rosario and Potts after a DFA go way down in the offseason after everybody's 40 mans get more crowded.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 14, 2021 19:11:46 GMT -5
I don't see how putting Mata on the 60-day affects next year, 2022. He comes off 60-day in October. Gets optioned in spring. Back on Milb IL. I would be extremely surprised if they could do that. If he was on the MLB IL, I'd presume he can't be optioned later and put on the minor league IL because of the same injury. Remember, the only reason they were able to option him is because he got injured early enough in MLB camp. If a guy gets hurt in the majors, you can't option him and put him on the minor league IL. I believe something happened with Workman back in the day where it was determined he got hurt in MLB camp before being optioned so they had to retroactively rescind his option and put him on the MLB IL.
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Post by Jason on Aug 14, 2021 20:18:03 GMT -5
Has there been any update on Hernandez? His injury was referred to as "minor" yet there hasn't been a peep about him. I guess if his recovery is dragging moving him to the 60-day is an option as well.
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