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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2021 21:43:53 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the scouting hiatus didn't play a part in all this. Yorke is such a contained hitter, he just seems older than he is. If more eyes had seen him perhaps he might have been rated more highly. I'll take Jordan's FCL numbers for where they were posted. He may not be there much longer anyway. Given the super weird conditions of 2020, it may prove to be a high variance draft, with more top picks doing poorly, more later round draftees doing well, and, especially, more UDFAs doing well. And maybe some organizations, which for whatever reason were able to take advantage of the situation relative to others, will prove to have done especially well. Early signs are promising regarding the Red Sox, as far as that goes.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 1, 2021 22:04:07 GMT -5
How much longer does Yorkk stay where he is?
I think he has earned a promotion. I know cannon isn’t kind of blocking his path, but surely something can be worked out.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,416
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Post by radiohix on Aug 1, 2021 22:21:25 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the scouting hiatus didn't play a part in all this. Yorke is such a contained hitter, he just seems older than he is. If more eyes had seen him perhaps he might have been rated more highly. I'll take Jordan's FCL numbers for where they were posted. He may not be there much longer anyway. Statically speaking, Yorke has the best hitting profile I've seen in the system in a long time. The low strikeout numbers, the high walks, the contact quality (line drive, hitting to all fields)...everything is top notch. I'm pretty sure that he'll run into more homers when he'll leave the former Carolina league and some of its cavernous ballparks. One other thing that I love about him: He's "selectively agressive". He'll have no problem ambushing that first pitch (His last 2 extra base hits, a triple and a double, came on a 0-0 counts) but he'll take his walks too and many of them came while being down 0-2, he'll choke up on the bat and starts fouling pitchs till he gets something he likes or draws his "free pass". He's very different in that regard from Jimenez or Decker who are on the two sides of the spectrum: Gilberto is the overagressive hitter and Decker is the too-patient-maybe-even-passive hitter...Yorke is a perfect blend of those two. Usually you have to take the walk rates in the low minors with a huge grain of salt: Passive hitters tend to pile big BB% since the pitching prospects they're facing struggle to throw strikes and 4-5 pitchs walks are very common but I saw Yorke drawing 11 pitchs and 9 pitchs walks while being down 0-2...he knows his strike zone and that's the building block for any hitter. I like to dive into our prospects numbers looking for strengths and weaknesses and sometimes it's not popular around these parts and I fully understand that, I received a lot of flak for being (very I must admit lol) vocal about Moncada's strikeouts problem since he was in Salem, I'm on record for saying that he'll end up being a very good player but not the elite one that the Red Sox nation envision him to be. I still think that Chavis will end up in the KBO when he'll be out of MiLB options, I think Jimenez will never make it past AA and I'm still very skeptical regarding Duran's future (I still have hope though hehe) but this Yorke kid, I really think he's the real deal, there's not a single area of concern with him. I'd like to see what he does in Advanced A after a 100 PA or so before crowning him the best hitting prospect in the system.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 1, 2021 22:36:58 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the scouting hiatus didn't play a part in all this. Yorke is such a contained hitter, he just seems older than he is. If more eyes had seen him perhaps he might have been rated more highly. I'll take Jordan's FCL numbers for where they were posted. He may not be there much longer anyway. Statically speaking, Yorke has the best hitting profile I've seen in the system in a long time. The low strikeout numbers, the high walks, the contact quality (line drive, hitting to all fields)...everything is top notch. I'm pretty sure that he'll run into more homers when he'll leave the former Carolina league and some of its cavernous ballparks. One other thing that I love about him: He's "selectively agressive". He'll have no problem ambushing that first pitch (His last 2 extra base hits, a triple and a double, came on a 0-0 counts) but he'll take his walks too and many of them came while being down 0-2, he'll choke up on the bat and starts fouling pitchs till he gets something he likes or draws his "free pass". He's very different in that regard from Jimenez or Decker who are on the two sides of the spectrum: Gilberto is the overagressive hitter and Decker is the too-patient-maybe-even-passive hitter...Yorke is a perfect blend of those two. Usually you have to take the walk rates in the low minors with a huge grain of salt: Passive hitters tend to pile big BB% since the pitching prospects they're facing struggle to throw strikes and 4-5 pitchs walks are very common but I saw Yorke drawing 11 pitchs and 9 pitchs walks while being down 0-2...he knows his strike zone and that's the building block for any hitter. I like to dive into our prospects numbers looking for strengths and weaknesses and sometimes it's not popular around these parts and I fully understand that, I received a lot of flak for being (very I must admit lol) vocal about Moncada's strikeouts problem since he was in Salem, I'm on record for saying that he'll end up being a very good player but not the elite one that the Red Sox nation envision him to be. I still think that Chavis will end up in the KBO when he'll be out of MiLB options, I think Jimenez will never make it past AA and I'm still very skeptical regarding Duran's future (I still have hope though hehe) but this Yorke kid, I really think he's the real deal, there's not a single area of concern with him. I'd like to see what he does in Advanced A after a 100 PA or so before crowning him the best hitting prospect in the system. I appreciate your thoughtfulness regarding Yorke (and other milb players). I do think his defensive ability could be a stumbling block for Yorke insofar as his absolute ceiling seems to be somewhere close to a Mark Bellhorn - or if power develops then a Dan Uggla type. That WAR profile is entirely up to his bat to perform.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 8:47:53 GMT -5
I found it funny that the area scout Josh Labandeira wrote in his scouting report to Toboni that Yorke was "...King in the batter's box" lol That was a great read on the player but also it really shined a light on Chaim and the FO. With all the pressure of your first draft in Boston and you have the guts and confidence in your scouts to make that pick, wow. I knew he was a stretch but now I really get how much or a stretch it was, that takes guts.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 8:59:16 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the scouting hiatus didn't play a part in all this. Yorke is such a contained hitter, he just seems older than he is. If more eyes had seen him perhaps he might have been rated more highly. I'll take Jordan's FCL numbers for where they were posted. He may not be there much longer anyway. Statically speaking, Yorke has the best hitting profile I've seen in the system in a long time. The low strikeout numbers, the high walks, the contact quality (line drive, hitting to all fields)...everything is top notch. I'm pretty sure that he'll run into more homers when he'll leave the former Carolina league and some of its cavernous ballparks. One other thing that I love about him: He's "selectively agressive". He'll have no problem ambushing that first pitch (His last 2 extra base hits, a triple and a double, came on a 0-0 counts) but he'll take his walks too and many of them came while being down 0-2, he'll choke up on the bat and starts fouling pitchs till he gets something he likes or draws his "free pass". He's very different in that regard from Jimenez or Decker who are on the two sides of the spectrum: Gilberto is the overagressive hitter and Decker is the too-patient-maybe-even-passive hitter...Yorke is a perfect blend of those two. Usually you have to take the walk rates in the low minors with a huge grain of salt: Passive hitters tend to pile big BB% since the pitching prospects they're facing struggle to throw strikes and 4-5 pitchs walks are very common but I saw Yorke drawing 11 pitchs and 9 pitchs walks while being down 0-2...he knows his strike zone and that's the building block for any hitter. I like to dive into our prospects numbers looking for strengths and weaknesses and sometimes it's not popular around these parts and I fully understand that, I received a lot of flak for being (very I must admit lol) vocal about Moncada's strikeouts problem since he was in Salem, I'm on record for saying that he'll end up being a very good player but not the elite one that the Red Sox nation envision him to be. I still think that Chavis will end up in the KBO when he'll be out of MiLB options, I think Jimenez will never make it past AA and I'm still very skeptical regarding Duran's future (I still have hope though hehe) but this Yorke kid, I really think he's the real deal, there's not a single area of concern with him. I'd like to see what he does in Advanced A after a 100 PA or so before crowning him the best hitting prospect in the system. Although my ability to dive into stats are rudimentary in comparison to yours I totally agree. When I see those K and walk rates along with the age and the numbers I start dreaming of another guy who forces his way thru the minors by the age of 21 and rakes the whole way thru, future all star.
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duda
Rookie
Posts: 15
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Post by duda on Aug 2, 2021 10:09:41 GMT -5
Do we have any reports on his defense since he entered the system? I thought the scouting reports on his defensively were unfavorable. Anyone have qan idea, was it the glove, arm, range, instincts?
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 2, 2021 11:00:17 GMT -5
I remember he was piling up errors early in the season. I just checked and he had 8 errors through May 25th....and zero since.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2021 11:07:29 GMT -5
I remember he was piling up errors early in the season. I just checked and he had 8 errors through May 25th....and zero since. I have high hopes that Yorke can be the third best 2b in Red Sox history behind Pedroia and Doerr and because of some pop in his bat, I'll hope that he's better than Pete Runnels, two time batting champ. He is young and putting it together. It's not hard to imagine him forcing his way up when he is 22 or 23. I think Bloom did extremely well with the Nick Yorke and Blaze Jordan picks last draft, especially considering the handicap they were working with. Add in Marcelo Mayer from this year I think the Sox finally have some potential blue chip prospect talent for the future. Just to be clear I wasn't referring to Jordan as blue chip, but I do love his upside, but I was referring to the future keystone combo of Yorke and Mayer.
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Post by jbsox on Aug 2, 2021 11:26:41 GMT -5
Let’s say both Yorke and Downs fully realize their potential. Do people think Downs could move to the outfield? I hope so as OF seems like one area we could use a little more depth at least in the upper minors.
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Post by borisman on Aug 2, 2021 12:45:03 GMT -5
If Downs “realizes his potential” we have a great trade chip. He can play second or short so he’d be valuable even as a utility guy. I also think Yorke may be up in two years if he keeps hitting like he is, especially if he gets a taste of Greenville this year. Defense is the thing he may be most deficient in.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 2, 2021 12:56:28 GMT -5
Statically speaking, Yorke has the best hitting profile I've seen in the system in a long time. The low strikeout numbers, the high walks, the contact quality (line drive, hitting to all fields)...everything is top notch. I'm pretty sure that he'll run into more homers when he'll leave the former Carolina league and some of its cavernous ballparks. One other thing that I love about him: He's "selectively agressive". He'll have no problem ambushing that first pitch (His last 2 extra base hits, a triple and a double, came on a 0-0 counts) but he'll take his walks too and many of them came while being down 0-2, he'll choke up on the bat and starts fouling pitchs till he gets something he likes or draws his "free pass". He's very different in that regard from Jimenez or Decker who are on the two sides of the spectrum: Gilberto is the overagressive hitter and Decker is the too-patient-maybe-even-passive hitter...Yorke is a perfect blend of those two. Usually you have to take the walk rates in the low minors with a huge grain of salt: Passive hitters tend to pile big BB% since the pitching prospects they're facing struggle to throw strikes and 4-5 pitchs walks are very common but I saw Yorke drawing 11 pitchs and 9 pitchs walks while being down 0-2...he knows his strike zone and that's the building block for any hitter. I like to dive into our prospects numbers looking for strengths and weaknesses and sometimes it's not popular around these parts and I fully understand that, I received a lot of flak for being (very I must admit lol) vocal about Moncada's strikeouts problem since he was in Salem, I'm on record for saying that he'll end up being a very good player but not the elite one that the Red Sox nation envision him to be. I still think that Chavis will end up in the KBO when he'll be out of MiLB options, I think Jimenez will never make it past AA and I'm still very skeptical regarding Duran's future (I still have hope though hehe) but this Yorke kid, I really think he's the real deal, there's not a single area of concern with him. I'd like to see what he does in Advanced A after a 100 PA or so before crowning him the best hitting prospect in the system. Although my ability to dive into stats are rudimentary in comparison to yours I totally agree. When I see those K and walk rates along with the age and the numbers I start dreaming of another guy who forces his way thru the minors by the age of 21 and rakes the whole way thru, future all star. Don't do it! I know who you're implying, but the power and defense are not there. But a great hit tool (and ability to walk) is still something that can carry anyone to a successful major league career.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 14:03:57 GMT -5
How much longer does Yorkk stay where he is? I think he has earned a promotion. I know cannon isn’t kind of blocking his path, but surely something can be worked out. Yorke and Jordan are 2 of the most obvious promotions I see. They need to be challenged this year and then start at those levels next tear with the hope that they break thru to the next once again. Yes I know, optimistic and aggressive but it would be great to see. I think people forget that Jordan was the prospect some thought was the best prep player in that draft. He was a bit of a rock star on the HR derby circuit who needed to work on his body, which he has done. He is opening eyes also.
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Post by bcsox on Aug 2, 2021 14:12:21 GMT -5
thnak you for your reply July...can I continue...any reports on Blaze's glove at third, or does he seem like a 1B/DH type.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 2, 2021 15:09:11 GMT -5
Statically speaking, Yorke has the best hitting profile I've seen in the system in a long time. The low strikeout numbers, the high walks, the contact quality (line drive, hitting to all fields)...everything is top notch. I'm pretty sure that he'll run into more homers when he'll leave the former Carolina league and some of its cavernous ballparks. One other thing that I love about him: He's "selectively agressive". He'll have no problem ambushing that first pitch (His last 2 extra base hits, a triple and a double, came on a 0-0 counts) but he'll take his walks too and many of them came while being down 0-2, he'll choke up on the bat and starts fouling pitchs till he gets something he likes or draws his "free pass". He's very different in that regard from Jimenez or Decker who are on the two sides of the spectrum: Gilberto is the overagressive hitter and Decker is the too-patient-maybe-even-passive hitter...Yorke is a perfect blend of those two. Usually you have to take the walk rates in the low minors with a huge grain of salt: Passive hitters tend to pile big BB% since the pitching prospects they're facing struggle to throw strikes and 4-5 pitchs walks are very common but I saw Yorke drawing 11 pitchs and 9 pitchs walks while being down 0-2...he knows his strike zone and that's the building block for any hitter. I like to dive into our prospects numbers looking for strengths and weaknesses and sometimes it's not popular around these parts and I fully understand that, I received a lot of flak for being (very I must admit lol) vocal about Moncada's strikeouts problem since he was in Salem, I'm on record for saying that he'll end up being a very good player but not the elite one that the Red Sox nation envision him to be. I still think that Chavis will end up in the KBO when he'll be out of MiLB options, I think Jimenez will never make it past AA and I'm still very skeptical regarding Duran's future (I still have hope though hehe) but this Yorke kid, I really think he's the real deal, there's not a single area of concern with him. I'd like to see what he does in Advanced A after a 100 PA or so before crowning him the best hitting prospect in the system. I appreciate your thoughtfulness regarding Yorke (and other milb players). I do think his defensive ability could be a stumbling block for Yorke insofar as his absolute ceiling seems to be somewhere close to a Mark Bellhorn - or if power develops then a Dan Uggla type. That WAR profile is entirely up to his bat to perform. Bellhorn/Uggla seems an odd comparison considering that Yorke's carrying tool is completely the hit tool. The BB/K comparison specifically makes it odd.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 2, 2021 15:17:46 GMT -5
The overriding reason to move Yorke and Blaze up is their great success at the levels to which they were assigned. They are going to move up next year. Giving them a month at the next level prepares them for continued success in the process of getting to the show.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 2, 2021 15:45:07 GMT -5
The overriding reason to move Yorke and Blaze up is their great success at the levels to which they were assigned. They are going to move up next year. Giving them a month at the next level prepares them for continued success in the process of getting to the show. It seems likely they'll both get promoted sometime soon. And getting a taste of the next level this year is certainly valuable to getting a good start there the next year. That said, scouting the box scores and stats and determining a player needs a promotion isn't always an effective tool. Players are typically given specific goals to work on and unless those goals are achieved, they're not deemed ready to move up, regardless of box score results. I think age is also a factor that is considered.
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Post by azblue on Aug 2, 2021 15:48:48 GMT -5
Most of the questions about Yorke's defense arose from his shoulder issues that were reported to be much improved just before the draft in 2020.
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Post by kingstephanos on Aug 2, 2021 17:44:47 GMT -5
I appreciate your thoughtfulness regarding Yorke (and other milb players). I do think his defensive ability could be a stumbling block for Yorke insofar as his absolute ceiling seems to be somewhere close to a Mark Bellhorn - or if power develops then a Dan Uggla type. That WAR profile is entirely up to his bat to perform. Bellhorn/Uggla seems an odd comparison considering that Yorke's carrying tool is completely the hit tool. The BB/K comparison specifically makes it odd. BB/K rate comparisons (to mlb players) are hard for a minor leaguer with so few games under his belt. Defensive comps (of bat first players) seem applicable as Yorke has scouting reports downplaying his defensive abilities. 🤷🏾♂️ And both second basemen I mentioned were bat first players with negative career defensive WAR.
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Post by caliexile on Aug 2, 2021 18:04:01 GMT -5
I see a little Kinsler in him. Kinsler was a "big" second baseman.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,416
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Post by radiohix on Aug 2, 2021 18:09:25 GMT -5
Re: Yorke's approach with 2 strikes. Here's him choking up the bat down 0-2 and the result is ,of course, a sharp line drive single for Salem's 1st walkoff win of the season. Yes, he entered the season as the 3rd youngest player in his league with no GCL/NYPL experience under his belt but when watching him, it jumps at you that he knows exactly what he's doing in the batter box.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 2, 2021 18:40:40 GMT -5
Bellhorn/Uggla seems an odd comparison considering that Yorke's carrying tool is completely the hit tool. The BB/K comparison specifically makes it odd. BB/K rate comparisons (to mlb players) are hard for a minor leaguer with so few games under his belt. Defensive comps (of bat first players) seem applicable as Yorke has scouting reports downplaying his defensive abilities. 🤷🏾♂️ And both second basemen I mentioned were bat first players with negative career defensive WAR. We have access to Dan Uggla and Mark Bellhorn's minor league stats (though I can't say I watched them as minor leaguers). In their initial minor league seasons both approximately struck out twice as often as they walked. As a pro, Uggla transitioned a bit into a more of a true three outcomes approach which I would shocked if Yorke went with. Mark Bellhorn lead the league in strikeouts one year and didn't really consistently show a hit tool (separately, I had forgotten how crazy Bellhorn's 2002 batting year was). When it comes to bat first second basemen, I think Mark Loretta is a more appropriate comp, though I also think we just effectively demonstrated why some people hate comps. When you give one just how descriptive are you trying to be? I went pretty specific, but it's equally possible to just mean bat-first second baseman.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 2, 2021 18:46:10 GMT -5
The overriding reason to move Yorke and Blaze up is their great success at the levels to which they were assigned. They are going to move up next year. Giving them a month at the next level prepares them for continued success in the process of getting to the show. It seems likely they'll both get promoted sometime soon. And getting a taste of the next level this year is certainly valuable to getting a good start there the next year. That said, scouting the box scores and stats and determining a player needs a promotion isn't always an effective tool. Players are typically given specific goals to work on and unless those goals are achieved, they're not deemed ready to move up, regardless of box score results. I think age is also a factor that is considered. I am a results driven kind of guy.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 2, 2021 19:58:17 GMT -5
It seems likely they'll both get promoted sometime soon. And getting a taste of the next level this year is certainly valuable to getting a good start there the next year. That said, scouting the box scores and stats and determining a player needs a promotion isn't always an effective tool. Players are typically given specific goals to work on and unless those goals are achieved, they're not deemed ready to move up, regardless of box score results. I think age is also a factor that is considered. I am a results driven kind of guy. That's not always how player development goes, however.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 2, 2021 22:28:57 GMT -5
Most of the questions about Yorke's defense arose from his shoulder issues that were reported to be much improved just before the draft in 2020. No, scouts this year who've seen him don't love the defense. I only saw one game but he had enough chances that I didn't love it either.
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