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Post by Addam603 on Dec 12, 2020 12:20:44 GMT -5
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Post by soxfaninnj on Dec 12, 2020 20:16:16 GMT -5
Mets are interviewing Red Sox Assistant GM Zack Scott as part of their GM search per Heyman. I’m happy Sox are keeping Scott.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 12, 2020 20:16:53 GMT -5
Another BoSox alumni. Jarred Porter has been named GM of the Mets.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 13, 2020 20:44:10 GMT -5
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Post by swingingbunt on Dec 13, 2020 21:09:20 GMT -5
Go Spiders!
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Post by jdb on Dec 13, 2020 22:12:11 GMT -5
Cleveland Steamers!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,183
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Post by cdj on Dec 13, 2020 22:52:52 GMT -5
Go by the Spiders, keep that sweet spiders logo from back in the day, and have all the fans dress up in Spider-Man costumes in the playoffs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2020 23:07:28 GMT -5
The Cleveland Spiders of 1899 went 20-134 and were the most futile team in baseball history, a year after finishing 81-68, but they transferred their best players to the St. Louis National League team (which were renamed the Cardinals). The joys of syndicate ownership where an owner can own two teams at the same time.
Of course when they dropped four teams in the NL to go from a 12 league circuit to an 8 team circuit the Spiders were dropped, and of course the American League picked up a Cleveland franchise for their new league.
I would think that the one thing that Cleveland is famous for should be a part of their new name. The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland (hope to see that one day!).
I would think Cleveland Rockers or something like that. Something that celebrates that connection.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 13, 2020 23:19:19 GMT -5
The Cleveland Spiders of 1899 went 20-134 and were the most futile team in baseball history, a year after finishing 81-68, but they transferred their best players to the St. Louis National League team (which were renamed the Cardinals). The joys of syndicate ownership where an owner can own two teams at the same time. Of course when they dropped four teams in the NL to go from a 12 league circuit to an 8 team circuit the Spiders were dropped, and of course the American League picked up a Cleveland franchise for their new league. I would think that the one thing that Cleveland is famous for should be a part of their new name. The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland (hope to see that one day!). I would think Cleveland Rockers or something like that. Something that celebrates that connection. The Cleveland Burning Rivers just doesn’t have a nice ring to it. I guess Rockers will have to do.
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Post by electricityverdugo99 on Dec 13, 2020 23:52:58 GMT -5
Lol this might be the one thing worse than the Indians name. Made me laugh a ton though.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,183
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Post by cdj on Dec 14, 2020 0:18:15 GMT -5
The Cleveland Spiders of 1899 went 20-134 and were the most futile team in baseball history, a year after finishing 81-68, but they transferred their best players to the St. Louis National League team (which were renamed the Cardinals). The joys of syndicate ownership where an owner can own two teams at the same time. Of course when they dropped four teams in the NL to go from a 12 league circuit to an 8 team circuit the Spiders were dropped, and of course the American League picked up a Cleveland franchise for their new league. I would think that the one thing that Cleveland is famous for should be a part of their new name. The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland (hope to see that one day!). I would think Cleveland Rockers or something like that. Something that celebrates that connection. Go full minor league baseball and call them the “Cleveland Rocks!”, exclamation point included en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Rocks
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Post by chr31ter on Dec 14, 2020 9:08:42 GMT -5
I would think Cleveland Rockers or something like that. Something that celebrates that connection. Would be awfully confusing when they played Colorado, no? I like Spiders. It's historic and it's original.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 14, 2020 10:16:17 GMT -5
I would think Cleveland Rockers or something like that. Something that celebrates that connection. Would be awfully confusing when they played Colorado, no? I like Spiders. It's historic and it's original. Haha, I was thinking the same thing. A Rockies/Rockers World Series would be kind of funny and confusing. I said Rockers but I was thinking somebody more creative than me would come up with something that celebrates Cleveland's connection with the Rock N Roll HOF. I would think when Nashville gets a team they'll play up their connection to Country Music. When I think of Spiders, as a historian I think of the worst team of all-time.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Dec 15, 2020 14:42:20 GMT -5
I moved all discussion talking about the former Cleveland team name to the throwdown forum. I caution everyone that we will be vigilant in shutting that thread down if need be.
Please feel free to discuss here what the next team name should be.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 15, 2020 14:56:22 GMT -5
Aw, I thought that conversation was interesting. And actually relevant this time!
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Post by manfred on Dec 15, 2020 20:57:47 GMT -5
Would be awfully confusing when they played Colorado, no? I like Spiders. It's historic and it's original. Haha, I was thinking the same thing. A Rockies/Rockers World Series would be kind of funny and confusing. I said Rockers but I was thinking somebody more creative than me would come up with something that celebrates Cleveland's connection with the Rock N Roll HOF. I would think when Nashville gets a team they'll play up their connection to Country Music. When I think of Spiders, as a historian I think of the worst team of all-time. All the more reason for Spiders. Redemption! Spiders fans have waited 121 years for it!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 15, 2020 23:54:28 GMT -5
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 · 8h Heard the #Rangers are getting RHP Jose Corniell and a player to be named for Rafael Montero, going to the #Mariners
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 16, 2020 13:34:48 GMT -5
Long overdue! www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/12/mlb-designates-negro-leagues-as-major-league.htmlI'll be interested to see additional research into the spotty statistical records of these great players. These wonderful players have always been "major leaguers". I'm glad to see them getting their due, even if it's many, many decades later than it should be. For one, I wonder how many HRs Josh Gibson hit or how many wins Satchel Paige piled up. Don't know if we'll ever really know but I'll be interested as the research evolves. And just because I must - Buck O'Neil for the HOF!! If God ever came to me and said, you can watch a ballgame with any ex-player in the history of the world, I'd pick Buck.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 16, 2020 19:20:26 GMT -5
With the Negro Leagues officially being recognized as a major league, I assume the stats they deem official from league games count.
Here's an interesting thought.
How many HRs did Hank Aaron hit for the Indianapolis Clowns in 1952? I see that he batted .467 but don't see a HR total anywhere.
If it's 8, then he would be reinstated as the all-time MLB HR king. He would have 763 lifetime HRs instead of 755, thus topping Barry Bonds by 1, not that anybody would mind that.
He wasn't with the Clowns for long in 1952, and I can't find a record of how many HRs he hit for them.
I would think Jackie Robinson, Willard Brown, Satchel Paige would now have combined Negro League/AL/NL records.
I can't wait to see how this shakes out.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 16, 2020 19:30:09 GMT -5
Personally I am very disappointed by this, now all the stats that I committed to memory as a child instead of doing my school work are both useless and incorrect!
Seriously, I think it is long past time to acknowledge that these leagues were just as competitive and filled with talent as the Majors. Good for MLB to finally do so.
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 16, 2020 23:25:06 GMT -5
This would be the best thing to ever come out of Cleveland.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 17, 2020 0:39:38 GMT -5
With the Negro Leagues officially being recognized as a major league, I assume the stats they deem official from league games count. Here's an interesting thought. How many HRs did Hank Aaron hit for the Indianapolis Clowns in 1952? I see that he batted .467 but don't see a HR total anywhere. If it's 8, then he would be reinstated as the all-time MLB HR king. He would have 763 lifetime HRs instead of 755, thus topping Barry Bonds by 1, not that anybody would mind that. He wasn't with the Clowns for long in 1952, and I can't find a record of how many HRs he hit for them. I would think Jackie Robinson, Willard Brown, Satchel Paige would now have combined Negro League/AL/NL records. I can't wait to see how this shakes out. Ok. I've got my answer. It doesn't matter how many HRs Hank Aaron hit in 1952 for the Clowns because MLB is recognizing seven different Negro Leagues, the last of which they're counting through the 1948 season, so Hank Aaron's stats on the 1952 Clowns aren't part of the major league record. That also means that baseball doesn't have its first women players in the major leagues as Toni Stone, Peanut Johnson, and Connie Morgan aren't considered major leaguers. However, now Josh Gibson's 1943 season makes him the last .400 hitter in the majors, albeit in a lot less ABs (actually less than 200 ABs for Gibson) than Williams in 1941. Ted also gets knocked out of the top 10 in batting average (BTW, do people realize that Lefty O'Doul had a .349 lifetime BA - yes in a hitter's park in a hitter's era, but still!!) I guess the only real implications to the record book is that Willie Mays gets a few more hits (wonder if he has any more HRs), Minnie Minoso gets another season plus equivalent of stats and so does Jackie Robinson. Of course the problem with counting the numbers is that the records are spotty and incomplete and there were chaotic schedules in which players themselves didn't know if they were playing exhibition games or legit league games. That was one of the point that Howard Bryant brought up. He appreciated the sentiment but thought that retro-fitting the stats was a bridge too far.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Dec 17, 2020 2:19:54 GMT -5
I'm thinking more along the lines of Satchell Paige redsox04071318champs. Some, who saw him years before in the Negro leagues and barnstorming games he played in said he was the very best there was and nobody, maybe even himself knew exactly how old he was. His stock answer to that was "his momma kept the children's birth dates in the family bible and one day a goat ate it"..
I highly recommend his life's history, written by him put out in the 70's if am not mistaken. Met the old gent once in Tampa.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 17, 2020 10:45:36 GMT -5
I'm thinking more along the lines of Satchell Paige redsox04071318champs. Some, who saw him years before in the Negro leagues and barnstorming games he played in said he was the very best there was and nobody, maybe even himself knew exactly how old he was. His stock answer to that was "his momma kept the children's birth dates in the family bible and one day a goat ate it".. I highly recommend his life's history, written by him put out in the 70's if am not mistaken. Met the old gent once in Tampa. I saw the movie once - I think Lou Gossett Jr. played Satchel Paige. I think the movie was from either the 70s or early 80s. I think the real Satchel Paige was in the movie - so it would have been 1982 or earlier. I found a site that had that had the Negro League stats. Apparently most of the games were exhibition games and not countable unfortunately. We'll never know what the stats would have been, other than they would have been unbelievable. It seemed that looking at the stats really quickly only Oscar Charleston, Cool Papa Bell, and Willie Wells had careers that look like the kind of numbers you're used to seeing as far as compiling stats go. Like it shows Satchel Paige with 120 some odd victories but you know that's only a fraction of the total and that some of these uncountable stats are exhibitions with the white teams in which the Negro League teams dominated, and I'd guess at some times held back so that they'd be invited back. You can still only guess at their greatness. I don't know how you make that stats work in the framework of the AL and NL but I'm not against them trying to fit them in. The bigger takeaway is that I'm simply glad that the Negro Leagues are "recognized" as major leagues, but even that seem ridiculously condescending. Of course they were major league caliber!
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Post by foreverred9 on Dec 17, 2020 21:34:31 GMT -5
Paige is so fascinating, the man's retirement talent was major league replacement level. Reminds me of Nolan Ryan from the longevity perspective. Here's a great article about Yaz describing the night he got a hit off of a 59-year-old Paige in 1965: www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article36320076.htmlI can't remember if I mentioned it when we were talking about Bob Feller last month, but Satchel Paige was a strong contributor to that 1948 Cleveland world championship team. He was more of a spot starter/middle-reliever, and for some reason they didn't pitch him much in the Series, but his stats looked solid.
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