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wcp3
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Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 28, 2021 15:22:31 GMT -5
I said earlier without Tatum and brown Celtics are nothing. The comment was it was a dumb statement because most other teams would be in same spot. Really? With all those first round picks we would be that bad without our all stars? Avery Bradley- gone for ..? Marathon brooks- dud Jared Sullivan- not winner on winning team Fab melo- dud Marcus smart- good but never all star James young- dud Terry rozier- solid but whoops Rj hunter- dud Jaylen brown ( top 3 pick). Great pick Yabusele- dud Zizic- dud Jayson Tatum ( essentially top pick) great Robert Williams. Solid Grant Williams- yuck Matisse thybulle. Whoops bad trade Romeo Langford. On way to dud Nesmith and Pritchard seem good Since 2010 that’s our picks. Including trading bane We accumulated first to make a difference. Yes we made league championship. But that’s not what Celtics should be about. We should be about nba titles period. And the way we are going won’t get us there. Not without a major trade for a major player. That’s a blown draft stock capital. That’s decisions being made to acquire talent that is NOT working Nothing will ever make me laugh more than the “without Jaylen and Tatum” line when it comes to evaluating Ainge. There are plenty of valid criticisms of Danny, but anytime you use the above line, you invalidate your argument. |
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 28, 2021 16:25:43 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference.
Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that.
Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 28, 2021 17:18:12 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference. Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that. Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water So the 76ers should have how many Championships with 5 top three picks since 2010? You ask who are the other three? Evan Turner, Okafor and Fultz. 12 years of building, which results in three conference finals in four years, with two star players under 25. He had a shit off-season, it's not his drafting though. Here's how you judge him, if he can't win a championship with Tatum and Brown he's truly failed. Yet he has plenty of time. I don't think there's a roster in the league I want more than Tatum, Brown, Smart, Robert Williams, Pritchard. He needs to fine tune it, yet the heavy lifting is done. You don't need an Anthony Davis to win a championship with that young core. Watch out if Nesmith and Langford take off and given Danny's record and Stevens ability to coach young guys I wouldn't bet against it. BTW how have the Sixers done against us in the playoffs recently? With all those picks? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 28, 2021 17:46:36 GMT -5
Wait so you believe Tatum isn't 100% and thus that supports Stevens putting him in a role where he does more than he has ever done? Sure if that's true, it would support change, less minutes and taking things off his plate, not adding more onto it. I stand by my comments that his recent play is the result of a role change. The numbers show he's never done more iso. Tatum is a great player, yet he's not Brown. Playing team ball is going to make it easier for him to get to the rim. Players getting the defense out of position and him taking advantage of that, versus him just going iso right at the D. I 100% believe if he wasn't going to the Basket because he lacks energy, he'd be taking a lot of easy shots. Instead he's creating those crazy hard shots in the 3-10 foot range that require a massive amount of energy. Which has been an issue with him in the past, he did the same thing with Irving when they played a heavy iso offense. You watch the 4th quarter of the Lakers, Pelicans and Mavericks games and think he lacks energy? Sorry I just don't see it and shame on Stevens if that is true for what he's making him do. It's a different type of season, with more games jam packed together in a way that players aren't used too. Yeah I get damn skeptical when Doc Rivers starts talking about Covid as the reason Seth Curry can't maintain an almost 60% rate from 3 point range. Nope that was written weird... I was agreeing with you saying the coach should be having him doing less. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 28, 2021 17:52:54 GMT -5
Guy drafts Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Robert Williams and Jaylen Brown and is SOMEHOW not good at drafting. Consider that out of those, only Brown and Tatum were top picks and neither of those guys were even remotely consensus at the spot they were picked. Heck, Danny was probably the only GM who had Tatum over Fultz. Jesus. I complained about the shitposting about Stevens but please let's get back to that.
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Post by trajanacc on Feb 28, 2021 18:33:36 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference. Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that. Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water So basically if the Celtics don’t win multiple NBA championships in the next 6-8 years, your argument is validated and we are all morons. Seems fair. /s |
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 28, 2021 18:56:59 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference. Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that. Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water So the 76ers should have how many Championships with 5 top three picks since 2010? You ask who are the other three? Evan Turner, Okafor and Fultz. 12 years of building, which results in three conference finals in four years, with two star players under 25. You JUST PROVED my point exactly. During the off season what happened to the 76ers?? Coach was fired and GM replaced. Why?? Because of all those draft picks and he still couldn't produce an NBA title or appearance. Thank you for your help in proving exactly what I'm saying. They said NO we want and deserve more and they made a change. Now where are they?? Top in the Eastern Conference.... |
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 28, 2021 19:03:37 GMT -5
Guy drafts Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Robert Williams and Jaylen Brown and is SOMEHOW not good at drafting. Consider that out of those, only Brown and Tatum were top picks and neither of those guys were even remotely consensus at the spot they were picked. Heck, Danny was probably the only GM who had Tatum over Fultz. Jesus. I complained about the shitposting about Stevens but please let's get back to that. Bradley was a great draft...Olynyk (ahhh yeah no) Smart...eh (and he was a lottery pick) Brown was #3...I'ld say he was top of his class...Tatum (we owned the number 1 pick...we better pick someone really good) Williams (dude isn't even starting yet..but has potential). Yeah with all those draft picks...I'm sorry I guess I expect more. Or trade them if you can't produce more. Because it's not working. Results..and results say we aren't winning the championships WITH THE PLAYERS DANNY DRAFTED. Furthermore...whos all stars there?? Brown and Tatum. Smart...that's an arguement...I think there are plenty of players I would rather have than Marcus Smart especially after his contract jumps to $20 million after next year. Olynyk was same thing...eh..he's not even a starter... All those draft picks..all those first round picks and you come up with a list of 7 players?? So your saying it's ok to fail at over 50% of your first round draft choices?? Because we have owned a ton of first round draft picks and they have failed. |
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 28, 2021 19:05:43 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference. Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that. Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water So basically if the Celtics don’t win multiple NBA championships in the next 6-8 years, your argument is validated and we are all morons. Seems fair. You want 1 championship every 20 years?? I kinda expect more being the Boston Celtics. And if we haven't won one in 6-8 years we are in deep crap because we will have to start another rebuilding loop. Right now...I don't see Aigie as the GM to complete the job...and I don't think he's anything more than average to below average at drafting NBA players. |
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Post by trajanacc on Feb 28, 2021 19:11:51 GMT -5
Yes I would take 1 title every 20 years. It’s really hard to win championships. There are 29 other teams all trying to win one, and there’s a salary cap.
Failure rate of 1st round picks league wide is a lot higher than what you perceive.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 28, 2021 20:30:01 GMT -5
Guy drafts Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Marcus Smart, Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Robert Williams and Jaylen Brown and is SOMEHOW not good at drafting. Consider that out of those, only Brown and Tatum were top picks and neither of those guys were even remotely consensus at the spot they were picked. Heck, Danny was probably the only GM who had Tatum over Fultz. Jesus. I complained about the shitposting about Stevens but please let's get back to that. Gladly. Why is Javonte playing? (This post was mostly tongue in cheek...but also, why is he playing?) |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 28, 2021 20:39:55 GMT -5
So basically if the Celtics don’t win multiple NBA championships in the next 6-8 years, your argument is validated and we are all morons. Seems fair. You want 1 championship every 20 years?? I kinda expect more being the Boston Celtics. And if we haven't won one in 6-8 years we are in deep crap because we will have to start another rebuilding loop. Right now...I don't see Aigie as the GM to complete the job...and I don't think he's anything more than average to below average at drafting NBA players. The Celtics have been one of the most consistent, successful franchises over the past 14 years - and they’ve accomplished that while essentially turning the roster over three times. There have been some hiccups and bad moves in the process, but that’s some impressive roster management when you put it in that context. You can argue that they should have more than one title since 2008, but literally only eight teams have won titles during that time period. The NBA just isn’t as open of a playing field like the other pro leagues are. With that being said, I think Ainge’s future may be somewhat tied to the Jays. They’re early on in this new window, but they need to figure out a way to get to the next level at some point. If that doesn’t happen in the next 3-5 years, then a big shakeup is likely inevitable - and that may include Ainge. But we’re nowhere near that point in my opinion. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,862
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 28, 2021 21:28:29 GMT -5
Brad doesn’t have many options right now, but playing Javonte and Semi together down the stretch is just about the worst one. He’s really lost with his rotations this year.
This team is soft defensively and not very smart offensively. Seems like a bad combo.
Edit: WHAT A DUMB POST
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 28, 2021 21:45:14 GMT -5
I loved the ball movement to end that game. Kemba actually acting like a good PG. Helping get Theis, Green and Semi good looks.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 28, 2021 22:29:12 GMT -5
I loved the ball movement to end that game. Kemba actually acting like a good PG. Helping get Theis, Green and Semi good looks. It definitely helps that Theis is balling absolutely out of his mind. If he keeps it up, the Stevens two big man thing with him and Williams might work for good chunks of the game. And holy nuts Bradley Beal. The Celtics are playing bad defense all season long and have allowed multiple guys to go nova, but this was a VERY impressive 40+ point game by Beal. He's just unstoppable out there. |
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 28, 2021 23:45:41 GMT -5
Yes I would take 1 title every 20 years. It’s really hard to win championships. There are 29 other teams all trying to win one, and there’s a salary cap. Failure rate of 1st round picks league wide is a lot higher than what you perceive. Well you take your 1 nba title every 20 years. I’ll demand we are like the Lakers or heat and be in 2-5 championship games every 20 years while being in serious conversation for best eastern conference team 30% of years. I’m not content to give up best franchise in nba title by accepting 1/20. Heck na. Bird didn’t. Garnett didn’t. All those great Celtics teams of before bird didn’t. Non of us should either! |
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Post by philarhody on Mar 1, 2021 6:48:37 GMT -5
Basic argument is this: Danny Angie is not a gm that can consistently win you nba championships. He is not the gm I would want running my team to win an nba championship. Reason: he needs 2 top 3 picks and even then he could not get you more than in the running for top spot in your conference. Time will tell if I’m right. But results show what they show. 12 years of building and we have yet to return to nba championship. And that’s with two max contracts doled out. A plethora of first round picks. And two top 3 picks and another top 8 pick and 2 other lottery picks beyond that. Not only will other teams continue to win championships as we tread water but lakers will pass us as greatest franchise in nba. Danny ainge unless his method of evaluating players changes, is not the gm to bring us anything more than treading water Bro, the teams to win the championships in the last 12 years are the Warriors, Lebrawn Jaaaames led Cavs/Lakers/Heat teams, Kobe led Lakers teams, the Spurs dynasty, and two outlier/fluky seasons in which top 30 players of all time (Kawhi and Dirk) led their team to championships. This stuff is hard. Danny has a great draft record. He has nailed late firsts for value. For every James Young/yabusele he’s drafted Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, and Kendrick Perkins. Not to mention nailing the top of the draft. He’s also made Boston a legit free agent contender, signing 3 multiple all stars in the span of 4 years. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 1, 2021 6:49:02 GMT -5
Kemba has his smile back the last few games which is nice
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Mar 1, 2021 6:55:28 GMT -5
I loved the ball movement to end that game. Kemba actually acting like a good PG. Helping get Theis, Green and Semi good looks. It definitely helps that Theis is balling absolutely out of his mind. If he keeps it up, the Stevens two big man thing with him and Williams might work for good chunks of the game. And holy nuts Bradley Beal. The Celtics are playing bad defense all season long and have allowed multiple guys to go nova, but this was a VERY impressive 40+ point game by Beal. He's just unstoppable out there. Yeah, I'm not sure when Theis started to become automatic from 3 but I'm definitely not complaining haha, dude always just keeps improving and always hustles his ass off. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 1, 2021 7:11:48 GMT -5
One thing about Kemba looking like a PG, it’s a lot easier to be a PG and get guys looks when there’s actual off the ball movement with cuts and players adjusting to passing lanes. This team has been brutal moving off the ball.
This may not apply so much to end of game last night but one very underrated thing is guys adjusting their spots to be in passing lanes out on the 3 point line, watch other teams do it then watch the Celtics. We suck at this.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 1, 2021 8:41:22 GMT -5
If Lakers and Heat are your benchmark then I suppose any GM that doesn't work for a team in a city Lebron James wants to play in is a failure.
Seems reasonable.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 1, 2021 8:59:43 GMT -5
One thing about Kemba looking like a PG, it’s a lot easier to be a PG and get guys looks when there’s actual off the ball movement with cuts and players adjusting to passing lanes. This team has been brutal moving off the ball. This may not apply so much to end of game last night but one very underrated thing is guys adjusting their spots to be in passing lanes out on the 3 point line, watch other teams do it then watch the Celtics. We suck at this. You need someone doing what Kemba Walker did last game to have guys moving. Absolutely great team basketball is about movement in all areas, yet you need a player consistently attacking the D and passing to get that movement. Kemba was running the pick and roll with Theis, driving then passing to basically get Green a layup and driving to kick it out for open three's. I haven't seen that Walker is a long time, heck even the announcers were like Kemba's back. Now if he can only maintain it. The beauty about that type of ball movement, is look at Tatum to end the game. When you finally want to do a little ISO they aren't ready for it and it makes things a lot easier on him. The team needed this win playing like that and damn it almost didn't happen with Beal, then Westbrook nailing three's. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 1, 2021 9:25:09 GMT -5
Yes I would take 1 title every 20 years. It’s really hard to win championships. There are 29 other teams all trying to win one, and there’s a salary cap. Failure rate of 1st round picks league wide is a lot higher than what you perceive. Well you take your 1 nba title every 20 years. I’ll demand we are like the Lakers or heat and be in 2-5 championship games every 20 years while being in serious conversation for best eastern conference team 30% of years. I’m not content to give up best franchise in nba title by accepting 1/20. Heck na. Bird didn’t. Garnett didn’t. All those great Celtics teams of before bird didn’t. Non of us should either! This team went 20 years with zero finals appearances till Danny gave us two of them. He's now rebuilt the team and given us the conference finals in 3 out of 4 years with a core that will compete for years. Be very careful what you wish for. You do understand that the NBA has changed right? A thing called free agency and salary cap, so you can't have what we used to have, it's literally impossible now a days. I'll take Danny's approach over the Lakers who will be nothing in a few years without LeBron. I thought your point about draft picks was a certain amount should equal Championships? The Sixers prove that wrong. They fired everyone because they went all in with the Butler and Harris trades and got bounced in the first round last year. We haven't done those type of moves yet and we certainly haven't been bounced in the first round. So you think we should have fired Danny last year? The GM who's teams have won seven playoff series in four years? The Sixers have won seven playoff series in 20 years haha. If you can't sit back and enjoy this ride, then you'll never be happy. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 1, 2021 9:54:40 GMT -5
The Lakers can take their approach because they’ll get the Shaq and LeBron to go there but their approach requires you to guy your team and bottom out at some point and wait for that guy. The NBA is the one league with set salaries so the destination cities of LA and Miami are almost always going to win out for the elite of the elite, if they have the salary slots.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 1, 2021 9:57:05 GMT -5
One thing about Kemba looking like a PG, it’s a lot easier to be a PG and get guys looks when there’s actual off the ball movement with cuts and players adjusting to passing lanes. This team has been brutal moving off the ball. This may not apply so much to end of game last night but one very underrated thing is guys adjusting their spots to be in passing lanes out on the 3 point line, watch other teams do it then watch the Celtics. We suck at this. You need someone doing what Kemba Walker did last game to have guys moving. Absolutely great team basketball is about movement in all areas, yet you need a player consistently attacking the D and passing to get that movement. Kemba was running the pick and roll with Theis, driving then passing to basically get Green a layup and driving to kick it out for open three's. I haven't seen that Walker is a long time, heck even the announcers were like Kemba's back. Now if he can only maintain it. The beauty about that type of ball movement, is look at Tatum to end the game. When you finally want to do a little ISO they aren't ready for it and it makes things a lot easier on him. The team needed this win playing like that and damn it almost didn't happen with Beal, then Westbrook nailing three's. Yea you need both, you can drive all you want and if guys are just standing watching then you have no one to pass to. We’ve seen that a lot this year. For one quarter last night we saw both. |
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