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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 25, 2021 16:30:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how that would work. I thought the only way to construct this would be separate deals (since you can't use both the TPE and player's outgoing salary) but then there would need to be something else coming back from Orlando (a conditional 2nd that never meets the condition). But that hasn't been reported so I don't know how it works. C's wouldn't be hard-capped bc they aren't the ones receiving the signed FA. Only his new team would. We weren't hard-capped bc of the Hayward S-and-T. We were hard-capped bc of TT's signing. That’s what i used to think too but i think you can’t combined salaries and the TPE to go over the TPE but you can as long as it’s under and the salary offsets the TPE use. I THINK. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2021 16:44:42 GMT -5
S/B around 11 right? Plus the ability to generate another large 1 if Fournier leaves as a free agent (granted, that'll probably have an additional cost in the form of picks) Edit - Though I guess if Boston would have to get something back from Orlando if they need to construct it as separate deals. Could be more because of the other contracts going out. Celtics won’t be able to do a sign and trade next offseason because that hard caps you and with Tatum’s extension they will be over the hard cap. They need to extend Fournier now. At least I’m 90% sure that’s the deal. I thought it was only teams acquiring a player by sign and trade no? Like Hayward didn't hard cap us, signing Thompson to the full mid-level versus the tax paying one did no? |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Mar 25, 2021 17:25:35 GMT -5
Using our most important asset to add Expiring Evan Fournier is a problem. I honestly don't see how this team gets better. Also fully agree that Orlando getting RJ Hampton when they already have Fultz/Anthony is something. Don't think you want all 3 long term. Our front office has been a bottom 5 one in the league the last 3 years and has bungled the last half of a literal treasure trove of assets. Upgrade past really good teams? Nah, but yeah let's marginally upgrade our mediocre, banged up, tired team this year while negatively impacting the future. Now Romeo and Nesmith can rot behind a rotational vet in Fournier! Really glad we saved those picks huh? Danny literally has no clue what the hell he is doing. He has no plan or timeline and is just making it up as he goes along in the worst possible way. He needs to be canned. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 25, 2021 17:38:30 GMT -5
Could be more because of the other contracts going out. Celtics won’t be able to do a sign and trade next offseason because that hard caps you and with Tatum’s extension they will be over the hard cap. They need to extend Fournier now. At least I’m 90% sure that’s the deal. I thought it was only teams acquiring a player by sign and trade no? Like Hayward didn't hard cap us, signing Thompson to the full mid-level versus the tax paying one did no? Looks like you are correct. When a club uses the bi-annual exception, acquires a player via sign-and-trade, or uses more than the taxpayer portion ($5,718,000) of the mid-level exception, that club will face a hard cap for the remainder of the league year.Nov 27, 2020 |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 25, 2021 18:07:50 GMT -5
Now Romeo and Nesmith can rot behind a rotational vet in Fournier! Bro, Fournier isn't a rotational vet lol. He's legit. Romeo is injured and Nesmith isn't ready, Stevens will develop them if they're any good. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 25, 2021 18:34:27 GMT -5
I was prepared for anything this deadline. Or so I thought.
Getting an 18-20 ppg scorer for 2 2nd rd picks resulting in outrage was NOT the outcome I expected.
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Post by philarhody on Mar 25, 2021 18:40:35 GMT -5
Now Romeo and Nesmith can rot behind a rotational vet in Fournier! Bro, Fournier isn't a rotational vet lol. He's legit. He’s a legit rotational vet. |
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Post by philarhody on Mar 25, 2021 18:49:52 GMT -5
I like Fournier for this team. I also like that Pritchard and Time Lord are being given a path to playing time. I would have liked to see Semi or Grant shipped out as well. But getting to see Pritchard and TimeLord play 25+ minutes a game is big. And also someone taking the ball out of the Jay’s gifted hands is also a plus.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2021 19:13:36 GMT -5
I have to really see what Steven's does, the roles these trades now give guys. For example I don't see Pritchards role changing much, only when Kemba is out. He's in a fight now to earn playoff minutes.
I really don't get the Theis trade, like we sent out $1.3 million also. Does Danny see Wagner as a Jae Crowder type piece? As in he comes out of nowhere to be crazy valuable? He couldn't find a better deal for a player like Theis at $5 million in a seller's market? That seems strange.
Bottom line he had to at minimum shake things up and he did.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Mar 25, 2021 19:22:51 GMT -5
Now Romeo and Nesmith can rot behind a rotational vet in Fournier! Bro, Fournier isn't a rotational vet lol. He's legit. Romeo is injured and Nesmith isn't ready, Stevens will develop them if they're any good. That's fair. I probably undersold him and am being unreasonably critical for such a small move with a small price because of my general negative view of the FOs recent moves. Pure cost was basically nothing and Fournier has been good to very offensively this year. God knows we need a good shooter. I just think it's weird to go for it in what has been a strange, struggle of a season. The flip side view is if you get the 4th-5th seed due to him (flipping some of these close games) and resign him, it's not a bad deal. I just think it hinges on that because otherwise it really handicaps our future cap situation. I do think it was much better than doing nothing. And if Theis was gone anyway at the end of the year, I like that move rather than the typical approach of walking for nothing. I just think there seems like no real rhyme or reason to the FOs moves lately. I hope I'm wrong. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 25, 2021 20:50:19 GMT -5
That's fair. I probably undersold him and am being unreasonably critical for such a small move with a small price because of my general negative view of the FOs recent moves. Pure cost was basically nothing and Fournier has been good to very offensively this year. God knows we need a good shooter. I just think it's weird to go for it in what has been a strange, struggle of a season. The flip side view is if you get the 4th-5th seed due to him (flipping some of these close games) and resign him, it's not a bad deal. I just think it hinges on that because otherwise it really handicaps our future cap situation. I mean I get it. We've been thinking about THE MISSING PIECE for a while, like that John Collins kind of dude who just elevates this roster. And while Fournier isn't that, he's a good scoring option on a team that badly needed one. I don't know if he'll stay for long or how much better it makes us. I think like RJP here that our path to contention is 100% dependant on Tatum and Brown taking that final step. Fournier helps to alleviate the pressure on them right now and it should also lead to less minutes to Semi which we badly needed. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 26, 2021 5:08:01 GMT -5
The thing about Fournier is he COULD be the perfect Hayward replacement. He’s an efficient scorer at all 3 levels, and can pass the ball. He’s not as good of a rebounder. However, he won’t require the ball in his hands as much running the offense which was UMass’s problem with Hayward. That being said he can do some of that as well. He should be a lot better as a team defender in our system as well.
I do feel like they need to resign him, not try and sign and trade him. Hopefully, they can sign him for around 20m per year. It will give a tradable contract as well as a player that can help them.
Trading Theis stings but I get they weren’t going to resign him so staying under the tax was important and it’s time for Rob to be the starting Center.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 26, 2021 5:14:25 GMT -5
The bottom line for this team is they need to get their defensive intensity and identity back, that is what made the J's great and the team a contender. Without much practice time they aren't going to get BS offensive ball movement style to perfection and the scoring will come with uptempo off of defensive stops.
Concentrate on D, uptempo and not scoring via isolating the J's. And have some fun out there, they don't look like they are having much fun losing. Maybe PRabbit getting some minutes with the ones will get the break going.
Don't get the Theis deal as umass said unless Danny sees something in Wagner that we don't. As far as the Fournier deal, yes it will make a lot more sense if he likes it here and signs on to stay. But as Perk said Danny traded some used cars for an Escalade, I agree.
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Post by rjw on Mar 26, 2021 6:44:27 GMT -5
Lineup I would like to see tonight:
RWill
Tatum
Brown
Nesmith
Walker
with a bench of:
Wagner
Fournier
Pritchard
Smart
Play Nesmith and Wagner about 12-15 minutes each, and Fournier 25+
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 26, 2021 7:01:09 GMT -5
Fairly certain the Theis deal was done only for luxury tax purposes. He probably thought Wagner was interesting but I don’t he’s the motivation behind the deal
All the players they got intrigue me though- even the Unikorn. The only thing I knew about him before today is that he’s a plodding 7’2 white guy who chucks 3’s in a not too particularly efficient manner. HERE FOR IT
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 26, 2021 9:02:48 GMT -5
/photo/1 I like these graphs by Goldsberry. He does them every few weeks. I'm kind of shocked it's the offense holding the team back more than defense. No one in the East is excelling in both. Update: The offensive Efficiency has actually come around. Defense plummeted. Not a surprise, except the moves they made won't help that so much. Hoping Smart gets back up to speed and can be a defensive anchor and "Don't Google" Fournier takes some of his touches on offense. /photo/1 |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 26, 2021 9:14:41 GMT -5
Listen, I know I'm bitter the Celtics have an unlikely path to improve beyond 4 seed at the moment, but what a dumpster fire Houston became. Can't think of a contender that took such big swings, came up short and then had a bare cupboard in such a short period of time. Morey was right to jump ship. D'Antonio too. Bad owner situation, rough superstar situation (x3) and now nothing but John Wall and Christian Wood. I tried following their draft pick situation but it's nearly impossible.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2021 11:05:09 GMT -5
Fairly certain the Theis deal was done only for luxury tax purposes. He probably thought Wagner was interesting but I don’t he’s the motivation behind the deal All the players they got intrigue me though- even the Unikorn. The only thing I knew about him before today is that he’s a plodding 7’2 white guy who chucks 3’s in a not too particularly efficient manner. HERE FOR IT Sure the main purpose was getting under the luxury tax, yet that was easy as almost every team in the league could do a deal that made that happen. You're telling me the Lakers, Portland, Dallas, Spurs, Memphis, etc none of them offered more than Wagner/Kornet for Theis/Green and 1.3 million in cash? Maybe that's true, yet I have a hard time believing that. Theis should have been a fairly valuable piece, that made sense for even tax paying teams because he'd cost only a few million. They didn't even do a 2 for 1 which would have made things harder. I didn't include teams the Hornets and Knicks because you don't want to help teams you might face in the playoffs, yet they helped the Bulls and if they mesh that’s a playoff team. At minimum he's worth a decent second round pick, at best a decent prospect and a second. I'm really looking at Portland, just traded Gary Trent for Powell, so they are going for it. Horrible defensive team who could have paired Theis and Covington together to give them the type of small ball defensive front court that would be perfect for that team. They had Simmons and Little sitting there for the taking. So I have to believe he wanted Wagner, it's the only way that trade makes sense and isn't a horrible deal in a sellers market. He's got two straight years of very impressive stats per minute. Rather impressive defensive stats given that team. He's getting his three point shot back away from being a very useful piece. Better per minute scoring stats than any Celtics big even without his three point shot, only Robert Williams comes close. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2021 11:12:16 GMT -5
Listen, I know I'm bitter the Celtics have an unlikely path to improve beyond 4 seed at the moment, but what a dumpster fire Houston became. Can't think of a contender that took such big swings, came up short and then had a bare cupboard in such a short period of time. Morey was right to jump ship. D'Antonio too. Bad owner situation, rough superstar situation (x3) and now nothing but John Wall and Christian Wood. I tried following their draft pick situation but it's nearly impossible. Morey created that mess by trading Chris Paul and a massive haul of picks for Russell Westbrook a lesser player. Morey is like the DD of Basketball GMs. He's always making win now mores, it doesn't work make another trade. He traded Capela and a first for Covington, so he could play Tucker at center. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2021 11:25:40 GMT -5
The thing about Fournier is he COULD be the perfect Hayward replacement. He’s an efficient scorer at all 3 levels, and can pass the ball. He’s not as good of a rebounder. However, he won’t require the ball in his hands as much running the offense which was UMass’s problem with Hayward. That being said he can do some of that as well. He should be a lot better as a team defender in our system as well. I do feel like they need to resign him, not try and sign and trade him. Hopefully, they can sign him for around 20m per year. It will give a tradable contract as well as a player that can help them. Trading Theis stings but I get they weren’t going to resign him so staying under the tax was important and it’s time for Rob to be the starting Center. I would hate a long-term deal at $20 million, 12-15 is my range unless you plan on flipping him for Beal and you know Danny has to be thinking about that. Plug him in at $20 million long-term and look at the luxury tax implications. I will say if he continues his production from the Magic I might change my mind, yet I expect a big dip going to the Celtics and becoming the 4th option compared to being the 2nd option on a crappy team that was perfect for him. Vuc opened up shooters in a way no player on the Celtics can in the post. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 26, 2021 13:22:00 GMT -5
Listen, I know I'm bitter the Celtics have an unlikely path to improve beyond 4 seed at the moment, but what a dumpster fire Houston became. Can't think of a contender that took such big swings, came up short and then had a bare cupboard in such a short period of time. Morey was right to jump ship. D'Antonio too. Bad owner situation, rough superstar situation (x3) and now nothing but John Wall and Christian Wood. I tried following their draft pick situation but it's nearly impossible. Morey created that mess by trading Chris Paul and a massive haul of picks for Russell Westbrook a lesser player. Morey is like the DD of Basketball GMs. He's always making win now mores, it doesn't work make another trade. He traded Capela and a first for Covington, so he could play Tucker at center. I think the GM was Harden for the Westbrook move. Capela's contract flipped very fast from a deal to a relic, though the plan was obviously misguided. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,874
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Post by cdj on Mar 26, 2021 19:30:12 GMT -5
DimeLord 4 assists in 11 min, new Horford
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cdj
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Posts: 15,874
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Post by cdj on Mar 26, 2021 19:32:45 GMT -5
Fairly certain the Theis deal was done only for luxury tax purposes. He probably thought Wagner was interesting but I don’t he’s the motivation behind the deal All the players they got intrigue me though- even the Unikorn. The only thing I knew about him before today is that he’s a plodding 7’2 white guy who chucks 3’s in a not too particularly efficient manner. HERE FOR IT Sure the main purpose was getting under the luxury tax, yet that was easy as almost every team in the league could do a deal that made that happen. You're telling me the Lakers, Portland, Dallas, Spurs, Memphis, etc none of them offered more than Wagner/Kornet for Theis/Green and 1.3 million in cash? Maybe that's true, yet I have a hard time believing that. Theis should have been a fairly valuable piece, that made sense for even tax paying teams because he'd cost only a few million. They didn't even do a 2 for 1 which would have made things harder. I didn't include teams the Hornets and Knicks because you don't want to help teams you might face in the playoffs, yet they helped the Bulls and if they mesh that’s a playoff team. At minimum he's worth a decent second round pick, at best a decent prospect and a second. I'm really looking at Portland, just traded Gary Trent for Powell, so they are going for it. Horrible defensive team who could have paired Theis and Covington together to give them the type of small ball defensive front court that would be perfect for that team. They had Simmons and Little sitting there for the taking. So I have to believe he wanted Wagner, it's the only way that trade makes sense and isn't a horrible deal in a sellers market. He's got two straight years of very impressive stats per minute. Rather impressive defensive stats given that team. He's getting his three point shot back away from being a very useful piece. Better per minute scoring stats than any Celtics big even without his three point shot, only Robert Williams comes close. We are in a market where impending UFA Fournier was had for 2 2nds, one of which I’m pretty sure is in 6 years. I don’t think the market dictates Theis getting Nassir Little/Simons or any young player of significance. Maybe if he was locked up to a decent contract. But he isn’t. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 26, 2021 19:34:18 GMT -5
DimeLord 4 assists in 11 min, new Horford He has such a unique skillset. He looks like he could de a DeAndre Jordan sort of player, just dunking and boarding like a maniac. And yet he has good touch on the ball, makes smart reads, passes the ball well and even got some range with good shooting mechanics. If he puts it all together he could be a really solid piece. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,874
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Post by cdj on Mar 26, 2021 19:39:28 GMT -5
Just got a sick offensive board and sick dime to Smart
5 assists
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