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Benintendi traded to KC in 3-way deal w/ NYM
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Post by wildsox on Feb 11, 2021 19:10:10 GMT -5
I think MJ Melendez the catcher might be an option from the KC side too
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 11, 2021 19:20:10 GMT -5
Even someone like this not in the top 30 could be a fun follow for this site for a couple of years.
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Post by unitspin on Feb 11, 2021 19:54:58 GMT -5
This was a bad trade no matter how you slice it. Hope Benny rebounds and makes it look even worse. Never sell low on player with potential. You have zero basis for saying that unless you're clairvoyant. ...none of us do. Yes it's an opinion, you could share yours if you would like. Or you can contribute zero to the conversation.
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Post by urgent on Feb 11, 2021 20:07:50 GMT -5
Bloom isn’t going to lose his job if the Sox don’t win in 2021. The Yankees and Dodgers are loaded. The Sox are still carrying a ton of dead money and want to lessen the penalties for exceeding the cap a couple years out. If Benintendi rebounds in 21 it doesn’t matter that much for the Sox. Multiple junior prospects are simply options that can be packaged and traded in the future. They likely lessened their chances for 21 and improved their chances for 23.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 11, 2021 20:26:32 GMT -5
Nobody had heard of Tatis Jr when he was a PTBNL in the James Shield trade. Obviously that would be like the best case scenario here.
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Post by rasimon on Feb 11, 2021 20:41:12 GMT -5
So I guess my question here now is how do the three farm systems stack up against each other? If the guys coming back aren't top 10 in our system, what general range can we expect from the Mets and Royals? Would a KC prospect in their 21-25 range slot in to our system in the 11-15 range? 16-20? Same deal goes for the Mets. I know the teams involved have their own thoughts/rankings so our musings don't mean squat, I'm just impatient. www.mlb.com/news/2020-midseason-farm-systems-rankingsThat question is crazy hard because the rankings are for different things and the depth differs in each system. Example Josh Winckowski was 27th for the #7 farm system, moving to the 22nd system you'd expect he'd be much higher right? Instead he's rated #30 in our system. Toronto has better top guys, we have less top guys yet better depth farther down the top 30. You could go study all three, rank them into tiers 55 guys, 50, 45 rating etc if you wanted a better picture and ball park idea. comparison of BOS, KCR, NYN using data from Prospects 1500 Tier 1: Players with high expectations of both making the majors and playing at an All-Star level for a number of years Tier 2: Players with an above average expectation of making the majors and being a solid contributor Tier 3: Players with an average expectation of making the majors and being a solid contributor Tier 4: Players who have the potential of making the majors, or have high likelihood of making the majors but providing minimal impact (e.g. middle reliever, low-ceiling UT guys) Tier 5: Players who are worth keeping an eye on, but likely to never make a team’s 40-man roster Tier | BOS | KCR | NYN | Tier 1 | 1 Casas | 2 Witt, Lacy | 0 | Tier 2 | 4 Downs, Dalbec, Duran, Houck | 7 Pena, Lynch, Kowar, Bubic, Stautmont, Loftin, Lee* | 2 Mauricio, Alvarez | Tier 3 | 18 | 13 | 10 | Tier 4 | 14 | 20 | 15 |
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 20:41:48 GMT -5
Nobody had heard of Tatis Jr when he was a PTBNL in the James Shield trade. Obviously that would be like the best case scenario here. I get your point, but is this case true? I mean, he was one of two guys who went for Shields, has a recognizable name, and was good enough that he hit the ground running. I mean, it is *possible* no one knew him because he had just turned 17, but I don’t feel like he is an example of a deep cut. Could be wrong. Again... not debating the principle, just curious if this is true of the example. Add: separate matter. Looking back at that trade.... ooooffff. Shields actually still seemed at least serviceable and then.... oh lord.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Feb 11, 2021 20:59:02 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 11, 2021 21:53:59 GMT -5
Nobody had heard of Tatis Jr when he was a PTBNL in the James Shield trade. Obviously that would be like the best case scenario here. I get your point, but is this case true? I mean, he was one of two guys who went for Shields, has a recognizable name, and was good enough that he hit the ground running. I mean, it is *possible* no one knew him because he had just turned 17, but I don’t feel like he is an example of a deep cut. Could be wrong. Again... not debating the principle, just curious if this is true of the example. Add: separate matter. Looking back at that trade.... ooooffff. Shields actually still seemed at least serviceable and then.... oh lord. Unless you were really into White Sox prospects back then people didn’t really know anything about him he didn’t even get to play a pro game with the white Sox. He wasn’t considered even a big prospect in that International class and signed I believe for 500k despite a famous ex mlber father it wasn’t like he was hidden as an amateur. I was mistaken and he wasn’t a PTBNL so it doesn’t equate. I’ll move on let’s see who the heck the prospects are when they are finally announced at some point.
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Post by manfred on Feb 11, 2021 21:55:26 GMT -5
I get your point, but is this case true? I mean, he was one of two guys who went for Shields, has a recognizable name, and was good enough that he hit the ground running. I mean, it is *possible* no one knew him because he had just turned 17, but I don’t feel like he is an example of a deep cut. Could be wrong. Again... not debating the principle, just curious if this is true of the example. Add: separate matter. Looking back at that trade.... ooooffff. Shields actually still seemed at least serviceable and then.... oh lord. Unless you were really into White Sox prospects back then people didn’t really know anything about him he didn’t even get to play a pro game with the white Sox. He wasn’t considered even a big prospect in that International class and signed I believe for 500k despite a famous ex mlber father it wasn’t like he was hidden as an amateur. I was mistaken and he wasn’t a PTBNL so it doesn’t equate. I’ll move on let’s see who the heck the prospects are when they are finally announced at some point. I wasn’t being a d—k. I genuinely didn’t remember, and there is a tendency (for me at least) to read success backwards. He was raking by 17, though. Pretty amazing.
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Post by dirtdog on Feb 11, 2021 23:35:26 GMT -5
A couple things for me: 87 projected wins? I dont see it right now, too many question marks on the mound IMO. I see more like 75 to 80. Regarding Cordero, a lot of metrics being thrown around but I am with Manfred, 27 is old in the majors to hit your stride, but hey I have been wrong before. Finally, Bloom sure seems to have a thing for castoff utility players.
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Post by ramireja on Feb 11, 2021 23:49:25 GMT -5
I'm going to refrain on sharing a ton of thoughts...y'all have everything pretty well covered. I will say this though, if the Yankees had just acquired Franchy Cordero, we'd all be terrified right now.
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Post by dangermike on Feb 11, 2021 23:58:55 GMT -5
You have zero basis for saying that unless you're clairvoyant. ...none of us do. Yes it's an opinion, you could share yours if you would like. Or you can contribute zero to the conversation. you say yours like its a fact, which it is not. and you, along with every other person crying on this thread, are not contributing anything of value to this conversation because it is impossible to know if this deal is good or not. you literally cant know at this point.
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Post by unitspin on Feb 12, 2021 6:53:01 GMT -5
Yes it's an opinion, you could share yours if you would like. Or you can contribute zero to the conversation. you say yours like its a fact, which it is not. and you, along with every other person crying on this thread, are not contributing anything of value to this conversation because it is impossible to know if this deal is good or not. you literally cant know at this point. I can say with some degree of certainty that Benny will have a far better career then Cordero. Just looking at past numbers your golden goose would have to go on a 3-5 year tear and benny do absolutely nothing for it to be even on the sheets. Benny has a 9.8 career war, what does cordero have? Benny is a bounce back candidate and cordero is a bench player. I'll take the potential everytime.
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Post by jbsox on Feb 12, 2021 7:11:31 GMT -5
Pretty soon we'll be able to field a full team of PTBNLs. Having to watch this trade trickle in via twitter was painful, the only thing worse would've been Nightengale chiming in telling us we got a better prospect from the Mets. I think we have 5 pending PTBNL now these 3, the Chatham trade, and Osich. Lol Am I missing anyone else?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 12, 2021 7:33:40 GMT -5
Pretty soon we'll be able to field a full team of PTBNLs. Having to watch this trade trickle in via twitter was painful, the only thing worse would've been Nightengale chiming in telling us we got a better prospect from the Mets. I think we have 5 pending PTBNL now these 3, the Chatham trade, and Osich. Lol Am I missing anyone else? I'd really like the 2021 projected roster at Lowell (I know the spinners are done) to just be filled with PTBNL for symbolism. I can only assume its due to last season not happening for the minors.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 12, 2021 7:43:57 GMT -5
Osich PTBNL would need to be announced by March 3 or something. Seems pretty clear they got cash - I can't imagine any reason to not have announced by now if it's a player.
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Post by agastonguay13 on Feb 12, 2021 8:42:26 GMT -5
Nobody had heard of Tatis Jr when he was a PTBNL in the James Shield trade. Obviously that would be like the best case scenario here. I mean, ideally for me at this point, I'd prefer the PTBNLs to be all 3 of them some of the bigger IFA bonus babies that should, hopefully, bloom (pun definitely intended) into some top 5-10 talent in a few years. At this point, it doesn't look like the payroll is going to allow flexibility to thrust the team into the heavy hitters mix for a year or two, so why not acquire seeds and grow them yourself rather than plants ready to put in the ground tomorrow?
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Post by stevedillard on Feb 12, 2021 8:57:26 GMT -5
I think we have 5 pending PTBNL now these 3, the Chatham trade, and Osich. Lol Am I missing anyone else? I'd really like the 2021 projected roster at Lowell (I know the spinners are done) to just be filled with PTBNL for symbolism. I can only assume its due to last season not happening for the minors. Apart from the issue of how this ultimately benefits the MLB team, I think we can all agree this site will be far more active than it was since 2017. I personally enjoy, regardless of the sport, the idea of building a team and having a pipeline. Therefore, even if the comets are likely to, and do, flame out before they reach the majors, I like dreaming on them. And not in a Cannon/Chatham sort of "he might eventually get a few at bats" sort of way. And not even in a Connor Seibold AAA starts sort of way. Instead, I am looking forward to the first GCL or DSL box score, muting my internal SSS caution, to see if Bleis is Blech, confident that we can sniff out Trey Ball would be a failure from his first results (we did), if we had something in Cole Brannen (I tried, I really tried to disregard the first sample), and trying to figure out where Antoni Flores would fit with Xander, after his .300+ first season. So give me the PTBNLs, and the first box scores from the 2020 draft, the 2020 and 2021 J2s, and get the fainting salts for the 2021 draft picks. Beyond the signal that the pandemic is loosening and normalcy of day baseball, I look forward to dreaming of the new core 4 years away, more confident that Bloom would be able to preserve that.
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Post by trajanacc on Feb 12, 2021 9:16:32 GMT -5
you say yours like its a fact, which it is not. and you, along with every other person crying on this thread, are not contributing anything of value to this conversation because it is impossible to know if this deal is good or not. you literally cant know at this point. I can say with some degree of certainty that Benny will have a far better career then Cordero. Just looking at past numbers your golden goose would have to go on a 3-5 year tear and benny do absolutely nothing for it to be even on the sheets. Benny has a 9.8 career war, what does cordero have? Benny is a bounce back candidate and cordero is a bench player. I'll take the potential everytime. I don’t think you fully grasp the meaning of the word “certainty.”
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Post by incandenza on Feb 12, 2021 10:01:29 GMT -5
A couple things for me: 87 projected wins? I dont see it right now, too many question marks on the mound IMO. I see more like 75 to 80. Regarding Cordero, a lot of metrics being thrown around but I am with Manfred, 27 is old in the majors to hit your stride, but hey I have been wrong before. Finally, Bloom sure seems to have a thing for castoff utility players. So which specific projections is fangraps too high on? ERod's 2.5 WAR? Richards' 1.9? Nothing there looks crazy to me. Let alone anything that would amount to a 7-12 win overestimation, which is pretty huge.
I'd also ask which AL pitching staffs look better, other than the Yankees? You might give the White Sox or Jays or Twins a marginal edge, but not by much; in any event, as strange as it is to say, I think the Red Sox have one of the 5 best starting rotations in the AL.
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Post by unitspin on Feb 12, 2021 10:11:26 GMT -5
I can say with some degree of certainty that Benny will have a far better career then Cordero. Just looking at past numbers your golden goose would have to go on a 3-5 year tear and benny do absolutely nothing for it to be even on the sheets. Benny has a 9.8 career war, what does cordero have? Benny is a bounce back candidate and cordero is a bench player. I'll take the potential everytime. I don’t think you fully grasp the meaning of the word “certainty.” I'm certain you won't put money on cordero having a better year then Benny. If your interested let me know, I like free money.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,659
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Post by cdj on Feb 12, 2021 10:26:47 GMT -5
I don’t think you fully grasp the meaning of the word “certainty.” I'm certain you won't put money on cordero having a better year then Benny. If your interested let me know, I like free money. Them not taking a bet doesn’t really change or impact their point like you think it does
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Feb 12, 2021 10:47:56 GMT -5
I don’t think you fully grasp the meaning of the word “certainty.” I'm certain you won't put money on cordero having a better year then Benny. If your interested let me know, I like free money. You said career. Bets involve probability not certainty. Your original statement is not worth defending on any level.
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Post by 1toolplayer on Feb 12, 2021 10:49:27 GMT -5
They are going to be 3 high upside guys who are far away Btw this is one way to find high end starting pitching. Because teams don’t trade away MLB ready SP prospects unless they’re getting elite MLB talent back. So maybe you go and land a Robert Dominguez and watch him develop into a top of the rotation guy in 2025. Pumping quality depth into every level of the system is so important though- it allows you the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want. You get enough talented pitching in the lower minors and eventually some of them are going to hit I got my eyes on Ben Hernandez from KC, that may be reaching though It's going to be hard to pinpoint the potential PTBNLs, but Yefri Del Rosario seems interesting if he's an option. Co-signed on Ben Hernandez, he was someone I really liked in this past draft. I am curious if some multiple PTBNLs is because KC has some recent draft picks that the Sox have good intel/ fresh reports on with this scouting staff Tyler Gentry would make sense here too (maybe more so given Lane Decker's recent draft history) and want to see them on a field a bit more. I really like Yefri as well, he was someone that I dog eared when reading BA's Royals top 30 before the trade was even made.
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