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4/5-4/7 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 6, 2021 22:44:48 GMT -5
Never in doubt
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Post by soxfaninnj on Apr 6, 2021 22:46:41 GMT -5
Really??? After an exciting win like that, That’s the reaction your going with? Ummm.... I mean, that extra innings was kind of a back and forth of ineptitude. The Sox won on a run that got into scoring position on a wild pitch after almost losing on a run that moved into scoring position in a wild pitch. Yeah, my reaction is a win is a win but that was not inspiring baseball. Vazquez tying the game ?
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Post by Coreno on Apr 6, 2021 22:46:52 GMT -5
Don't look now, but the Boston Red Sox are one game out of first place.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Apr 6, 2021 22:48:19 GMT -5
Double that arrozerena prob should have caught Thanks. Didn't JD already have one of those in the 7th or 8th inning, a ball that Arozarena could have caught but broke back the wrong way? I'm getting a new TV tomorrow but I'm down to 1 TV and I promised my wife I'd stop watching TV after the 10th so she could sleep, so I was following it on ESPN where it goes pitch by pitch. Arrozerena was playing shallow to try to cut the winning run down on a single, JD blasted it over his head and he turned the wrong way and it landed over his head, if he’s playing normal depth he catches it easy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 6, 2021 22:50:42 GMT -5
Thanks. Didn't JD already have one of those in the 7th or 8th inning, a ball that Arozarena could have caught but broke back the wrong way? I'm getting a new TV tomorrow but I'm down to 1 TV and I promised my wife I'd stop watching TV after the 10th so she could sleep, so I was following it on ESPN where it goes pitch by pitch. Arrozerena was playing shallow to try to cut the winning run down on a single, he blasted it over his head and he turned the wrong way and it landed over his hand, if he’s playing normal depth he catches it easy. Thanks for the description. I'll watch the replay tomorrow morning and by tomorrow night, I'll have a new TV. We had a 21 year old set that just crapped out so we're getting our first modern one (no tube!)
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Post by manfred on Apr 6, 2021 22:51:02 GMT -5
Ummm.... I mean, that extra innings was kind of a back and forth of ineptitude. The Sox won on a run that got into scoring position on a wild pitch after almost losing on a run that moved into scoring position in a wild pitch. Yeah, my reaction is a win is a win but that was not inspiring baseball. Vazquez tying the game ? Yeah, that was good. As I said, he’s one of their best players. And then... keystone kops. Hey, all wins count. And like I said, it looks like 3rd place is a lot more likely. Those are both good things.
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Post by 75tillnow on Apr 6, 2021 22:53:30 GMT -5
Don't look now, but the Boston Red Sox are one game out of first place. Yes sir! And more: We've been through the rotation and only one shit the bed. Erod is coming, and hopefully Sale and Houck (perhaps to replace Richards, who has been in the pen before). Ain't over. Not by a long shot.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 6, 2021 23:03:45 GMT -5
Well, I said it was going to be a lousy loss, and it was - thankfully for the Rays.
I know his ERA for the game was 5.4 but Perez pitched well. He probably shouldn't have come out for the 6th inning.
Barnes looked as good as I've seen him look in awhile. He looked dominating.
Vazquez hit one of this, "I don't hit cheap home runs" homers.
I'm glad the Red Sox were able to get some breaks at the end. Verdugo getting hit by a pitch one strike away from losing and then the wild pitch (that countered Valdez's wild pitch) and Arozarena breaking the wrong way.
I get where Manfred is coming from, but sometimes you have to win games that sometimes feel like games the opponent loses more than you win. The 1986 Red Sox had a bunch of weird wins like that. I remember the worst Red Sox hitter I've ever seen, Marc Sullivan, winning a game because he got hit in the ass with the bases loaded. They won a game on a balk. The won a game where they had two runners on 2b (Steve Lyons baserunning blunder) at the same time and the confused RF George Wright threw the ball away, and a game they were bailed out by the fog in Cleveland when Dwight Evans pretended that he couldn't see the fungos Bobby Bonds was hitting into the outfield.
Sometimes you win heroicly and sometimes you win crazily, but if you win, just take it. It beats the alternative.
The other observation, which seems kind of obvious, is that there are a lot of outs in the Sox lineup. I mean between Hernandez, Gonzalez, Renfroe, and Arroyo...I didn't have much hope that any of those guys were going to contribute anything.
I hope Duran is ready within a month or two and can come up and hit well and take over the leadoff spot - I mean I really don't like Kiké in that spot and his presence would mean I wouldn't have to watch Renfroe flail away against righties. It would take care of two predictable problems if Duran can come up and hit well.
Also hope that Dalbec snaps out of it, as I suspect he will, and I'm really hoping Franchy blossoms, especially against righties - I still have hope for Franchy as I'm rooting hard for him to be something more than JAG. That would mean less Marwin Gonzalez, too.
I would have to think that's part of Bloom's plan.
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Post by manfred on Apr 6, 2021 23:13:58 GMT -5
Well, I said it was going to be a lousy loss, and it was - thankfully for the Rays. I know his ERA for the game was 5.4 but Perez pitched well. He probably shouldn't have come out for the 6th inning. Barnes looked as good as I've seen him look in awhile. He looked dominating. Vazquez hit one of this, "I don't hit cheap home runs" homers. I'm glad the Red Sox were able to get some breaks at the end. Verdugo getting hit by a pitch one strike away from losing and then the wild pitch (that countered Valdez's wild pitch) and Arozarena breaking the wrong way. I get where Manfred is coming from, but sometimes you have to win games that sometimes feel like games the opponent loses more than you win. The 1986 Red Sox had a bunch of weird wins like that. I remember the worst Red Sox hitter I've ever seen, Marc Sullivan, winning a game because he got hit in the ass with the bases loaded. They won a game on a balk. The won a game where they had two runners on 2b (Steve Lyons baserunning blunder) at the same time and the confused RF George Wright threw the ball away, and a game they were bailed out by the fog in Cleveland when Dwight Evans pretended that he couldn't see the fungos Bobby Bonds was hitting into the outfield. Sometimes you win heroicly and sometimes you win crazily, but if you win, just take it. It beats the alternative. The other observation, which seems kind of obvious, is that there are a lot of outs in the Sox lineup. I mean between Hernandez, Gonzalez, Renfroe, and Arroyo...I didn't have much hope that any of those guys were going to contribute anything. I hope Duran is ready within a month or two and can come up and hit well and take over the leadoff spot - I mean I really don't like Kiké in that spot and his presence would mean I wouldn't have to watch Renfroe flail away against righties. It would take care of two predictable problems if Duran can come up and hit well. Also hope that Dalbec snaps out of it, as I suspect he will, and I'm really hoping Franchy blossoms, especially against righties - I still have hope for Franchy as I'm rooting hard for him to be something more than JAG. That would mean less Marwin Gonzalez, too. I would have to think that's part of Bloom's plan. This is all fair, but Kiké, Renfroe, Marwin... *they* are Bloom’s plan. They may — probably will — come around, and there might be help on the way.... but right now, this team is leaning heavily on JDM, CVaz, and some other guys who’ve been here. The newcomers... not helping.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 6, 2021 23:25:57 GMT -5
Well, I said it was going to be a lousy loss, and it was - thankfully for the Rays. I know his ERA for the game was 5.4 but Perez pitched well. He probably shouldn't have come out for the 6th inning. Barnes looked as good as I've seen him look in awhile. He looked dominating. Vazquez hit one of this, "I don't hit cheap home runs" homers. I'm glad the Red Sox were able to get some breaks at the end. Verdugo getting hit by a pitch one strike away from losing and then the wild pitch (that countered Valdez's wild pitch) and Arozarena breaking the wrong way. I get where Manfred is coming from, but sometimes you have to win games that sometimes feel like games the opponent loses more than you win. The 1986 Red Sox had a bunch of weird wins like that. I remember the worst Red Sox hitter I've ever seen, Marc Sullivan, winning a game because he got hit in the ass with the bases loaded. They won a game on a balk. The won a game where they had two runners on 2b (Steve Lyons baserunning blunder) at the same time and the confused RF George Wright threw the ball away, and a game they were bailed out by the fog in Cleveland when Dwight Evans pretended that he couldn't see the fungos Bobby Bonds was hitting into the outfield. Sometimes you win heroicly and sometimes you win crazily, but if you win, just take it. It beats the alternative. The other observation, which seems kind of obvious, is that there are a lot of outs in the Sox lineup. I mean between Hernandez, Gonzalez, Renfroe, and Arroyo...I didn't have much hope that any of those guys were going to contribute anything. I hope Duran is ready within a month or two and can come up and hit well and take over the leadoff spot - I mean I really don't like Kiké in that spot and his presence would mean I wouldn't have to watch Renfroe flail away against righties. It would take care of two predictable problems if Duran can come up and hit well. Also hope that Dalbec snaps out of it, as I suspect he will, and I'm really hoping Franchy blossoms, especially against righties - I still have hope for Franchy as I'm rooting hard for him to be something more than JAG. That would mean less Marwin Gonzalez, too. I would have to think that's part of Bloom's plan. This is all fair, but Kiké, Renfroe, Marwin... *they* are BloomâÂÂs plan. They may â probably will â come around, and there might be help on the way.... but right now, this team is leaning heavily on JDM, CVaz, and some other guys whoâÂÂve been here. The newcomers... not helping. Yes and no. I don't know that Bloom's plan was to sign Kiké and have Cora use him as leadoff man. That I doubt. I think he signed him to hold the fort until Downs is ready and be able to back up at any position as I'm sure Bloom knew that JBJ wasn't coming back. I think Bloom figured Renfroe would play heavily until Duran was ready and then would recede into a platoon role, assuming that Renfroe doesn't take advantage of his opportunity to play regularly (which appears to be the case). And Marwin, well again, it comes down to somebody who can back up at multiple positions. I don't think Bloom signed Marwin thinking he'd have 400 plus ABs, but I think Cora will use him that way unless Dalbec and Cordero start raking. Ideally you have Hernandez and Renfroe and one of Arroyo/Gonzalez in the lineup against lefties and eventually you have Duran, along with Cordero and one of Hernandez/Gonzalez in the lineup against righties, with the idea that Vazquez, JDM, X, Devers, Verdugo, and hopefully Dalbec play just about every day. I think Bloom intended for Kiké to play mostly regularly this season and become more of a platoon guy next year if/when Downs is ready. I think the intention was that if one of the regulars got hurt, that Marwin Gonzalez would then play more regularly and be mediocre/average which is a step up from most bench guys. I think that is Bloom's plan.
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Post by manfred on Apr 6, 2021 23:38:28 GMT -5
This is all fair, but Kiké, Renfroe, Marwin... *they* are BloomâÂÂs plan. They may â probably will â come around, and there might be help on the way.... but right now, this team is leaning heavily on JDM, CVaz, and some other guys whoâÂÂve been here. The newcomers... not helping. Yes and no. I don't know that Bloom's plan was to sign Kiké and have Cora use him as leadoff man. That I doubt. I think he signed him to hold the fort until Downs is ready and be able to back up at any position as I'm sure Bloom knew that JBJ wasn't coming back. I think Bloom figured Renfroe would play heavily until Duran was ready and then would recede into a platoon role, assuming that Renfroe doesn't take advantage of his opportunity to play regularly (which appears to be the case). And Marwin, well again, it comes down to somebody who can back up at multiple positions. I don't think Bloom signed Marwin thinking he'd have 400 plus ABs, but I think Cora will use him that way unless Dalbec and Cordero start raking. Ideally you have Hernandez and Renfroe and one of Arroyo/Gonzalez in the lineup against lefties and eventually you have Duran, along with Cordero and one of Hernandez/Gonzalez in the lineup against righties, with the idea that Vazquez, JDM, X, Devers, Verdugo, and hopefully Dalbec play just about every day. I think Bloom intended for Kiké to play mostly regularly this season and become more of a platoon guy next year if/when Downs is ready. I think the intention was that if one of the regulars got hurt, that Marwin Gonzalez would then play more regularly and be mediocre/average which is a step up from most bench guys. I think that is Bloom's plan. I mean, you don’t think Bloom and Cora consult? You have multiple guys who have somehow ended up getting used in a way the GM is surprised by... that seems highly unlikely. Or, if they are being used outside how he expected, he should assert some control.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 6, 2021 23:45:46 GMT -5
Yeah, that was good. As I said, he’s one of their best players. And then... keystone kops. Hey, all wins count. And like I said, it looks like 3rd place is a lot more likely. Those are both good things. Were you even watching the same game? Cordero played really well, hitting and saving the game with the catch. Martinez is back with the bat, Perez gave them another solid pitching performance, Barnes was lights out... That keystone kops stuff ignores all of that. Did Martinez misjudge the hit to right? You bet. I've misread almost every fly ball hit in the air and so have others. And wild pitches happen almost every game. The season has just started, and it's cold out there which probably doesn't help. They hung in and they won. On to the next game.
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Post by manfred on Apr 6, 2021 23:52:25 GMT -5
Yeah, that was good. As I said, he’s one of their best players. And then... keystone kops. Hey, all wins count. And like I said, it looks like 3rd place is a lot more likely. Those are both good things. Were you even watching the same game? Cordero played really well, hitting and saving the game with the catch. Martinez is back with thre bat, Perez gave them another solid pitching performance, Barnes was lights out... That keystone kops stuff ignores all of that. Did Martinez misjudge the hit to right? You bet. I've misread almost every fly ball hit in the air and so have others. And wild pitches happen almost every game. The season has just started, and it's cold out there which probably doesn't help. They hung in and they won. On to the next game. I was talking about both teams in extra innings. It is not easy to call that good baseball. As a broader point.... I don’t like the runner on second.
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Post by kjkramer on Apr 6, 2021 23:52:31 GMT -5
This team has fire
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Post by foreverred9 on Apr 6, 2021 23:57:43 GMT -5
Well, I said it was going to be a lousy loss, and it was - thankfully for the Rays. I know his ERA for the game was 5.4 but Perez pitched well. He probably shouldn't have come out for the 6th inning. Barnes looked as good as I've seen him look in awhile. He looked dominating. Vazquez hit one of this, "I don't hit cheap home runs" homers. I'm glad the Red Sox were able to get some breaks at the end. Verdugo getting hit by a pitch one strike away from losing and then the wild pitch (that countered Valdez's wild pitch) and Arozarena breaking the wrong way. I get where Manfred is coming from, but sometimes you have to win games that sometimes feel like games the opponent loses more than you win. The 1986 Red Sox had a bunch of weird wins like that. I remember the worst Red Sox hitter I've ever seen, Marc Sullivan, winning a game because he got hit in the ass with the bases loaded. They won a game on a balk. The won a game where they had two runners on 2b (Steve Lyons baserunning blunder) at the same time and the confused RF George Wright threw the ball away, and a game they were bailed out by the fog in Cleveland when Dwight Evans pretended that he couldn't see the fungos Bobby Bonds was hitting into the outfield. Sometimes you win heroicly and sometimes you win crazily, but if you win, just take it. It beats the alternative. The other observation, which seems kind of obvious, is that there are a lot of outs in the Sox lineup. I mean between Hernandez, Gonzalez, Renfroe, and Arroyo...I didn't have much hope that any of those guys were going to contribute anything. I hope Duran is ready within a month or two and can come up and hit well and take over the leadoff spot - I mean I really don't like Kiké in that spot and his presence would mean I wouldn't have to watch Renfroe flail away against righties. It would take care of two predictable problems if Duran can come up and hit well. Also hope that Dalbec snaps out of it, as I suspect he will, and I'm really hoping Franchy blossoms, especially against righties - I still have hope for Franchy as I'm rooting hard for him to be something more than JAG. That would mean less Marwin Gonzalez, too. I would have to think that's part of Bloom's plan. This is all fair, but Kiké, Renfroe, Marwin... *they* are Bloom’s plan. They may — probably will — come around, and there might be help on the way.... but right now, this team is leaning heavily on JDM, CVaz, and some other guys who’ve been here. The newcomers... not helping. More broadly, I would say that Hernandez and Gonzalez are a function of a strategy (i.e. go with a 14-man staff) rather than the strategy. They are sacrificing offense for a staff that will better handle the post-2020 rebound. I don't think they are part of the masterplan, but they are part of the 2021 plan. Unfortunately it's going to be hard to measure the upside of that plan but really easy to measure the downside.
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Post by jkfer98 on Apr 7, 2021 0:04:11 GMT -5
I think I'm officially coming out in support of the man on 2nd rule. Extras was both weird and fun - as baseball should be!
Plus, it (kind of) builds small ball back into the game.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 7, 2021 0:06:21 GMT -5
Yes and no. I don't know that Bloom's plan was to sign Kiké and have Cora use him as leadoff man. That I doubt. I think he signed him to hold the fort until Downs is ready and be able to back up at any position as I'm sure Bloom knew that JBJ wasn't coming back. I think Bloom figured Renfroe would play heavily until Duran was ready and then would recede into a platoon role, assuming that Renfroe doesn't take advantage of his opportunity to play regularly (which appears to be the case). And Marwin, well again, it comes down to somebody who can back up at multiple positions. I don't think Bloom signed Marwin thinking he'd have 400 plus ABs, but I think Cora will use him that way unless Dalbec and Cordero start raking. Ideally you have Hernandez and Renfroe and one of Arroyo/Gonzalez in the lineup against lefties and eventually you have Duran, along with Cordero and one of Hernandez/Gonzalez in the lineup against righties, with the idea that Vazquez, JDM, X, Devers, Verdugo, and hopefully Dalbec play just about every day. I think Bloom intended for Kiké to play mostly regularly this season and become more of a platoon guy next year if/when Downs is ready. I think the intention was that if one of the regulars got hurt, that Marwin Gonzalez would then play more regularly and be mediocre/average which is a step up from most bench guys. I think that is Bloom's plan. I mean, you don’t think Bloom and Cora consult? You have multiple guys who have somehow ended up getting used in a way the GM is surprised by... that seems highly unlikely. Or, if they are being used outside how he expected, he should assert some control. Yes, they consult, but Bloom doesn't tell Cora how to make out the lineup. He doesn't dictate lineups to his manager. As far as usage goes, again I'm sure they consult, but I think that's ultimately Cora's decision at gametime.
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Post by manfred on Apr 7, 2021 0:08:55 GMT -5
I mean, you don’t think Bloom and Cora consult? You have multiple guys who have somehow ended up getting used in a way the GM is surprised by... that seems highly unlikely. Or, if they are being used outside how he expected, he should assert some control. Yes, they consult, but Bloom doesn't tell Cora how to make out the lineup. He doesn't dictate lineups to his manager. As far as usage goes, again I'm sure they consult, but I think that's ultimately Cora's decision at gametime. But I am guessing even before they sign free agents they see if they are on the same page about how they’ll use them, etc. I just think it is hard to imagine Cora is already using guys in a dramatically unexpected way.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 7, 2021 0:39:12 GMT -5
Well, I said it was going to be a lousy loss, and it was - thankfully for the Rays. I know his ERA for the game was 5.4 but Perez pitched well. He probably shouldn't have come out for the 6th inning. Barnes looked as good as I've seen him look in awhile. He looked dominating. Vazquez hit one of this, "I don't hit cheap home runs" homers. I'm glad the Red Sox were able to get some breaks at the end. Verdugo getting hit by a pitch one strike away from losing and then the wild pitch (that countered Valdez's wild pitch) and Arozarena breaking the wrong way. I get where Manfred is coming from, but sometimes you have to win games that sometimes feel like games the opponent loses more than you win. The 1986 Red Sox had a bunch of weird wins like that. I remember the worst Red Sox hitter I've ever seen, Marc Sullivan, winning a game because he got hit in the ass with the bases loaded. They won a game on a balk. The won a game where they had two runners on 2b (Steve Lyons baserunning blunder) at the same time and the confused RF George Wright threw the ball away, and a game they were bailed out by the fog in Cleveland when Dwight Evans pretended that he couldn't see the fungos Bobby Bonds was hitting into the outfield. Sometimes you win heroicly and sometimes you win crazily, but if you win, just take it. It beats the alternative. The other observation, which seems kind of obvious, is that there are a lot of outs in the Sox lineup. I mean between Hernandez, Gonzalez, Renfroe, and Arroyo...I didn't have much hope that any of those guys were going to contribute anything. I hope Duran is ready within a month or two and can come up and hit well and take over the leadoff spot - I mean I really don't like Kiké in that spot and his presence would mean I wouldn't have to watch Renfroe flail away against righties. It would take care of two predictable problems if Duran can come up and hit well. Also hope that Dalbec snaps out of it, as I suspect he will, and I'm really hoping Franchy blossoms, especially against righties - I still have hope for Franchy as I'm rooting hard for him to be something more than JAG. That would mean less Marwin Gonzalez, too. I would have to think that's part of Bloom's plan. This is all fair, but Kiké, Renfroe, Marwin... *they* are Bloomâs plan. They may â probably will â come around, and there might be help on the way.... but right now, this team is leaning heavily on JDM, CVaz, and some other guys whoâve been here. The newcomers... not helping. I'm assuming Kiké, Renfroe, Arroyo are place holders for Duran and Jeter Downs. Cordero was one of the main reasons they won this game. Perez stinks, but he at least was able to keep the game close.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 7, 2021 6:09:30 GMT -5
I know it probably doesn’t ultimately matter too much, but I really don’t get why Cora loves batting these utility/fringey offensive guys first. Ideally they’d be batting 8th or 9th IMO Maybe because that is what he was.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 7, 2021 6:10:18 GMT -5
Great win!
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Post by patford on Apr 7, 2021 6:21:32 GMT -5
Nice win for the Sox. Many encouraging signs this season so far despite the hitting not showing up aside from JD. The extra innings rule gimmick is atrocious. I'd way rather see ties. What is the objection to a tie game anyhow? Is it due to gambling? As we know football and hockey had ties for decades and no one really was upset about that.
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Post by greenmonster on Apr 7, 2021 7:46:09 GMT -5
Nice win for the Sox. Many encouraging signs this season so far despite the hitting not showing up aside from JD. The extra innings rule gimmick is atrocious. I'd way rather see ties. What is the objection to a tie game anyhow? Is it due to gambling? As we know football and hockey had ties for decades and no one really was upset about that. For me personally I don't like the idea of a tie (football, hockey, baseball, etc). Some positives of the extra inning rule is it has the potential to bring back some lost art of the game. Arroyo struggled to get a sacrifice bunt down and then was thrilled he was able to advance the runner with a productive out. Rays didn't attempt a sacrifice bunt all last season but they did last night. That being said, I would like to see the 10th inning played normal and the runner on second kick in for the 11th
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Post by johnsilver52 on Apr 7, 2021 7:48:00 GMT -5
Remember also the Sullivan getting hit in the rumpus for a W.. Then him pointing to it just in case anybody in the stadium missed it!
Forget which team the balk was against, tho do remember Sox color guy then Monty yelling "A balk? Did he just balk?!?". Nothing by Ned martin, just that and whatever pitcher was out there complaining to one of the umps. Seattle the opponent maybe?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 7, 2021 8:55:11 GMT -5
Nice win for the Sox. Many encouraging signs this season so far despite the hitting not showing up aside from JD. The extra innings rule gimmick is atrocious. I'd way rather see ties. What is the objection to a tie game anyhow? Is it due to gambling? As we know football and hockey had ties for decades and no one really was upset about that. Vazquez is hitting .400 and he saved the win with a home run. Cordero has had two doubles in limited playing time and Bogaerts has already had a 4-hit game. The season has just started so patience.
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