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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 9, 2021 0:12:39 GMT -5
With Darwinzon I don’t think it’s a matter of trusting his stuff, I just don’t think he has any idea which way his pitches are going to break. I don’t think he’ll ever throw a ton of strikes, but I think he’ll be damn near impossible to hit when he’s at his peak
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 11, 2021 21:47:31 GMT -5
This thread is a gold mine.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 11, 2021 22:04:47 GMT -5
I've not played this game yet - but here goes
Top tier
Barnes Whitlock
Slightly nervous tier
Taylor Ottavino Sawamura
Very Nervous tier
Hernandez Workman Andriese
Who knows tier
Brennan
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 12, 2021 1:18:48 GMT -5
This thread is a gold mine. The nature of relievers lol
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 12, 2021 8:08:31 GMT -5
Most importantly the pen has been improving FTMP and guys are settling into roles. It is more of a strength than a weakness and that is not what most expected. I am also optimistic that guys like Otto and Sawa, veterans, will be very solid as 8th inning shutdown guys. It would be great in the second half if one of the seasons stories is the 8th and 9th are done deals when the Sox are up in close games. Those teams that shut those innings down usually do very well and the Sox look like they are getting there.
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Post by patford on Jun 12, 2021 8:39:37 GMT -5
Here are my rankings.
Walk dog around the block.
Barnes Whitlock
Two trips with dog around the block.
Taylor Ottavino Sawamura
Turn off TV and read a book.
Hernandez Workman Andriese
Discharge pistol into side of head or roof of mouth whichever is quicker.
Brennan
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 30, 2021 18:14:20 GMT -5
This is xwOBA / wOBA:
.424 / .475 (16 PA) Yacksel with the Mariners .419 / .564 (12 PA) First 3 G with Sox .212 / .122 (17 PA) Last 3 G with the Sox. That's a 4.2 0 0 0 3 5 line.
It's an itsy bitsy teenie weenie sample size, but since June 23, 195 MLB pitchers have faced 15 or more batters. Yacksel ranks 23rd in xwOBA and 4th in wOBA. It's promising.
This is a guy they went out of their way to obtain.
Rios with the Phillies and Pirates had a 6.36 ERA in 69.1 innings over 4 years. The Rays signed him as a free agent this winter and he put up a 13.2 8 2 1 2 17 line in Durham, whereupon they sold him to the Mariners. Apparently, they didn't include the instruction manual.
The Mariners tried him 3 times and then were happy to sell him to us for a presumed profit, 10 days later. I bet the Rays were not happy about that.
Further fun with small samples: even withe the terrible start his xwOBA is 5th among the current roster (after Barnes, Ottavino, E-Rod, and Whitlock).
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 2, 2021 16:07:42 GMT -5
July 1 Update
Tier 1:
1. Matt Barnes 2. Garrett Whitlock 3. Adam Ottovino 4. Josh Taylor
Tier 2:
5. Hirokazu Sawamura 6. D. Hernandez
Tier 3 :
7. Brandon Workman 8. Yacksel Rios
Tier 4:
9. Matt Andriese
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 3, 2021 16:13:37 GMT -5
July 3 update in my view
Tier 1 - Barnes, Whitlock, Ottavino, Taylor Tier 2 - Sawamura, Darwinzon Tier 3 - Workman, Andriese, Rios (I think Andriese will trend up - his last performance moved him up a tick for me).
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 3, 2021 16:17:08 GMT -5
Barnes, Whitlock, Ottavino, Taylor Sawamura Darwinzon Ríos, Workman Andriese
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Post by incandenza on Jul 4, 2021 18:24:45 GMT -5
1. Ottavino 2. Taylor 3. Whitlock 4. Barnes . . 5. Darwinzon 6. Sawamura . . 7. Rios 8. Workman . . . . 9. Andriese
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Post by Jimmy on Jul 5, 2021 0:19:22 GMT -5
1. Ottavino 2. Taylor 3. Whitlock 4. Barnes . . 5. Darwinzon 6. Sawamura . . 7. Rios 8. Workman . . . . 9. Andriese Barnes has been my default #1 but I’m starting to come around on something like this
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 5, 2021 9:58:47 GMT -5
Workman has the most deceptive ERA of all time
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Post by soxstan96 on Jul 5, 2021 10:17:25 GMT -5
Full trust:
1. Whitlock 2. Barnes 3. Ottavino 4. Taylor
Trust, but not when the game is on the line:
5. Sawamura 6. Hernandez
Don't trust except when we have a commanding lead, very easily replaceable:
7. Workman 8. Rios
DFA now:
9. Andriese
Honestly my hope is that once Valdez and Braiser are back, and Houck and Sale are re-introduced to the starting rotation, those bottom three guys can either be DFA'd or shipped back to Worcester. Pivetta or Houck would be fantastic additions to the pen. Would love to see Connor Seabold get a shot too, but I know he's still dealing with an injury so who knows if that happens this season.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jul 5, 2021 10:51:43 GMT -5
Full trust: 1. Whitlock 2. Barnes 3. Ottavino 4. Taylor Trust, but not when the game is on the line: 5. Sawamura 6. Hernandez Don't trust except when we have a commanding lead, very easily replaceable: 7. Workman 8. Rios DFA now: 9. Andriese Honestly my hope is that once Valdez and Braiser are back, and Houck and Sale are re-introduced to the starting rotation, those bottom three guys can either be DFA'd or shipped back to Worcester. Pivetta or Houck would be fantastic additions to the pen. Would love to see Connor Seabold get a shot too, but I know he's still dealing with an injury so who knows if that happens this season. Andriese can not be optioned, so i would DFA him and see if he can clear waivers. He has been a huge disappointment!
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Post by bcsox on Jul 5, 2021 10:57:13 GMT -5
baseball is a funny game. I believe my last post in this thread demanded that Taylor be taken out behind the barn and left there. Now he is top three guy.
Guys I feel as good as can be handling the ball to in a one run game in Game 7 of a WS:
1. Ottavino 2. Barnes 3. Whitlock
Ottavino has come a long way and seems to be pitching with a lot of confidence. It doesnt mean anything, but I look that he seems to be in a bad mood every time he is on the mound.
Barnes seems to have regressed to just very solid since the no sticky ickie memo went out. May it was just a normal regression in line with his career norms, who knows.
Whitlock is still a very trusted member of the pen, and just an awesome story for the season. Personally, I liked his results more when he was fastball/changeup on. His slider is good, but just from my eyes, he seems to have lost just a small touch of the devastation with the changeup. This is going to Cora's bullpen challenge down the stretch unless they get another guy in here who can slot in this tier. Coming off TJ surgery and no innings last year I think the orders from Chaim were probably two appearances per week, two innings per appearance, and if you get in a pickle a few times per month, you can have a third outing. Cora deployed him yesterday for the second time in the series, and it was in the right slot, one inning, in the bridge to Barnes. With the games taking on more importance, I imagine right now that Cora is going to want to press the same button, but they have to watch it with this kid.
Guys who if they get the ball in the 9th up one run, I will watch, but I need to be semi blindfolded and I am leaving the engine on in the driveway:
4. Taylor: He deserves to be in top grouping but I saw what I saw in April and I cant unsee it. Something tells me he is going to be over relied upon in a big spot late in the season and I am going to puke.
5. Darwinzon: I have no stomach or patience for late inning walks out of the pen. Always seems to come back to bite you. He is the one guy out of the lower group that I would trust to go on a postseason hot run that we maybe didnt expect.
Guys who should only get the ball in a one run game in a spring training game:
6. Sawamura: Same thing with Darwinzon, the day to day fluctuation in his performance is unsettling. Just loses control of the strikezone far too frequently.
7. Rios: I dont fully trust him, but he is not as bad as oft released resume seems to suggest he should be. I would have loved to get a look at him on last years team where if he pitched three good games in a row, moved up the ladder and then had a bad one, nobody would care. He needs development, but it is going to be hard to develop on a 1st place major league roster.
No title needed:
8. Workman: I think the first time they need a 40 man roster spot, he is the victim. Or they try to find Chavis a new home
9. Andriese. was on thin ice, and then Saturday night happened.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 5, 2021 11:53:18 GMT -5
One thing I wonder about is what they’ll do once Sale and Houck are back. Do they go to a 6 man rotation, with Houck piggybacking, to help Sale ease back in? Do they move Richards or Perez to the bullpen in the Andriese/long man role?
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jul 5, 2021 11:53:23 GMT -5
baseball is a funny game. I believe my last post in this thread demanded that Taylor be taken out behind the barn and left there. Now he is top three guy. Guys I feel as good as can be handling the ball to in a one run game in Game 7 of a WS: 1. Ottavino 2. Barnes 3. Whitlock Ottavino has come a long way and seems to be pitching with a lot of confidence. It doesnt mean anything, but I look that he seems to be in a bad mood every time he is on the mound. Barnes seems to have regressed to just very solid since the no sticky ickie memo went out. May it was just a normal regression in line with his career norms, who knows. Whitlock is still a very trusted member of the pen, and just an awesome story for the season. Personally, I liked his results more when he was fastball/changeup on. His slider is good, but just from my eyes, he seems to have lost just a small touch of the devastation with the changeup. This is going to Cora's bullpen challenge down the stretch unless they get another guy in here who can slot in this tier. Coming off TJ surgery and no innings last year I think the orders from Chaim were probably two appearances per week, two innings per appearance, and if you get in a pickle a few times per month, you can have a third outing. Cora deployed him yesterday for the second time in the series, and it was in the right slot, one inning, in the bridge to Barnes. With the games taking on more importance, I imagine right now that Cora is going to want to press the same button, but they have to watch it with this kid. Guys who if they get the ball in the 9th up one run, I will watch, but I need to be semi blindfolded and I am leaving the engine on in the driveway: 4. Taylor: He deserves to be in top grouping but I saw what I saw in April and I cant unsee it. Something tells me he is going to be over relied upon in a big spot late in the season and I am going to puke. 5. Darwinzon: I have no stomach or patience for late inning walks out of the pen. Always seems to come back to bite you. He is the one guy out of the lower group that I would trust to go on a postseason hot run that we maybe didnt expect. Guys who should only get the ball in a one run game in a spring training game: 6. Sawamura: Same thing with Darwinzon, the day to day fluctuation in his performance is unsettling. Just loses control of the strikezone far too frequently. 7. Rios: I dont fully trust him, but he is not as bad as oft released resume seems to suggest he should be. I would have loved to get a look at him on last years team where if he pitched three good games in a row, moved up the ladder and then had a bad one, nobody would care. He needs development, but it is going to be hard to develop on a 1st place major league roster. No title needed: 8. Workman: I think the first time they need a 40 man roster spot, he is the victim. Or they try to find Chavis a new home 9. Andriese. was on thin ice, and then Saturday night happened. Unlike many I never lost confidence that Taylor would return to form. Workman had an outlier in 2019, and he was never that good before or since. If Andriese is lost in the DFA process IMO no loss as he has been terrible other than the first couple week of the season.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 5, 2021 12:35:15 GMT -5
Here's the think with Workman since he rejoined the Sox - he has essentially the same ERA as Whitlock (mid 1.5s). The walks, and his pitching style, are nerve wracking, but he is actually doing quite well.
For me there is one "gotta go" on the team - Andriese. Just no longer effective - seems to throw meatballs right down the middle.
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Post by jmei on Jul 5, 2021 12:44:05 GMT -5
Here's the think with Workman since he rejoined the Sox - he has essentially the same ERA as Whitlock (mid 1.5s). The walks, and his pitching style, are nerve wracking, but he is actually doing quite well. For me there is one "gotta go" on the team - Andriese. Just no longer effective - seems to throw meatballs right down the middle. Workman’s ERA is a mirage. In his 11.2 innings with Boston, he has a 6.17 K/9, a 6.17 BB/9, a 6.07 FIP and a 5.81 xFIP.
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 5, 2021 12:53:17 GMT -5
Workman is hated by every stat there is...except ERA. Andriese stats are....surprisingly decent: 9.17 K/9, 2.48 BB/9. His .404 BABIP, 91mph exit velocity and 45% hard hit kill him though.
If the DFA game is on: my pick is Workman
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,399
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Post by radiohix on Jul 5, 2021 12:56:56 GMT -5
Workman is hated by every stat there is...except ERA. Andriese stats are....surprisingly decent: 9.17 K/9, 2.48 BB/9. His .404 BABIP, 91mph exit velocity and 45% hard hit kill him though. If the DFA game is on: my pick is Workman Yeah, at the very least Andriese is useful in giving you multiple innings while Workman is just bad and you can't ride him hard.
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 5, 2021 13:24:33 GMT -5
Here is the reason why i have trust issues with Barnes: OOPSIE... Stats before 06/13 15.48 K/9 2.30 BB/9 2.63 ERA 1.71 xFIP 1.49 SIERA Stats after 06/13 13.97 K/9 2.79 BB/9 2.79 ERA 2.99 xFIP 2.35 SIERA Don't get me wrong, he is still the best reliever we have and sub 3 xFIP and SIERA very very good...but this is called the "trust meter thread" and for me, he has to re-earn the trust
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Post by incandenza on Jul 5, 2021 13:34:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think we have an Aroldis Chapman situation on our hands, but the early returns suggest the sticky substance enforcement has taken Barnes from "elite" to "good/very good" reliever territory. But early returns are early; we'll see how it goes from here.
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Post by unitspin on Jul 5, 2021 13:41:26 GMT -5
Here's the think with Workman since he rejoined the Sox - he has essentially the same ERA as Whitlock (mid 1.5s). The walks, and his pitching style, are nerve wracking, but he is actually doing quite well. For me there is one "gotta go" on the team - Andriese. Just no longer effective - seems to throw meatballs right down the middle. Thing with sending someone down is if its andriese he is not getting scooped up if its workman a team could take a flier on him.
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