ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 1, 2021 14:30:29 GMT -5
The thing is, your number 4 starter only pitches once in a playoff series. He's essentially half a starter. Being one of the top 4 relievers and the guy who can go multiple innings and the guy who can get GDP's is more valuable than that.
Meanwhile, I often like to point out how relatively ordinary the 4th starters on most playoff clubs are. It's rare that a guy is substantially above league average rather average or a bit above. Pivetta is a very solid option as of right now. Compare Wakefield in '04, Wake and a rookie Lester in '07, Peavey in '13, Porcello in '18.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 1, 2021 14:40:13 GMT -5
The thing is, your number 4 starter only pitches once in a playoff series. He's essentially half a starter. Being one of the top 4 relievers and the guy who can go multiple innings and the guy who can get GDP's is more valuable than that.
Meanwhile, I often like to point out how relatively ordinary the 4th starters on most playoff clubs are. It's rare that a guy is substantially above league average rather average or a bit above. Pivetta is a very solid option as of right now. Compare Wakefield in '04, Wake and a rookie Lester in '07, Peavey in '13, Porcello in '18.
My reference point here will always be the 2003 Red Sox winning both John Burkett starts. I guess the important difference here is the consideration that you could schedule Whitlock for about 9-15 batters in Game 4 (whether or not he pitches first) which would leave him essentially at full strength for Games 1 and 7. Not saying the Red Sox should or would do so, but I think there's some sense in using a non-traditional fourth starter this way.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 1, 2021 15:35:30 GMT -5
The thing is, your number 4 starter only pitches once in a playoff series. He's essentially half a starter. Being one of the top 4 relievers and the guy who can go multiple innings and the guy who can get GDP's is more valuable than that.
Meanwhile, I often like to point out how relatively ordinary the 4th starters on most playoff clubs are. It's rare that a guy is substantially above league average rather average or a bit above. Pivetta is a very solid option as of right now. Compare Wakefield in '04, Wake and a rookie Lester in '07, Peavey in '13, Porcello in '18.
My reference point here will always be the 2003 Red Sox winning both John Burkett starts. I guess the important difference here is the consideration that you could schedule Whitlock for about 9-15 batters in Game 4 (whether or not he pitches first) which would leave him essentially at full strength for Games 1 and 7. Not saying the Red Sox should or would do so, but I think there's some sense in using a non-traditional fourth starter this way. Hmmm...
Game 1: Sale/Whitlock Game 2: Eovaldi/Houck Game 3: Rodriguez Game 4: Pivetta/Whitlock Game 5: Sale/Houck Game 6: Eovaldi Game 7: Rodriguez/Whitlock
Sale gets backed up in both starts, Eovaldi and Rodriguez each get backed up in one start, Taylor/Ottavino/Barnes get most of the rest of the innings. No one ever really has to go a third time through the order.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jul 1, 2021 20:52:57 GMT -5
The thing is, your number 4 starter only pitches once in a playoff series. He's essentially half a starter. Being one of the top 4 relievers and the guy who can go multiple innings and the guy who can get GDP's is more valuable than that.
Meanwhile, I often like to point out how relatively ordinary the 4th starters on most playoff clubs are. It's rare that a guy is substantially above league average rather average or a bit above. Pivetta is a very solid option as of right now. Compare Wakefield in '04, Wake and a rookie Lester in '07, Peavey in '13, Porcello in '18.
I still remember bitterly how unfair it seemed that the Mets, after we beat up on Ron Darling a little, were able to bring in Sid Fernandez for the middle innings of Game 7 in 1986.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 27, 2021 9:57:37 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2021 15:27:24 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Jul 29, 2021 15:36:37 GMT -5
That first Okajima year was magic. Remember the okie dokie?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 29, 2021 15:54:51 GMT -5
The hero in the dark...
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Post by elp51 on Jul 29, 2021 16:58:02 GMT -5
I can’t wait to see Garrett become a starter he and Houck give the Red Sox a potentially terrific rotation for the future. Pivetta if he can be more consistent has a bulldog mentality you like as well plus he pitches quickly. Sale, Houck, and Pivetta have to be the quickest 3 starters from pitch to pitch. Players love playing behind starters like that. The future is bright in Boston.
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Post by widewordofsport on Jul 30, 2021 17:00:57 GMT -5
That first Okajima year is probably the second most dominant I've ever seen a Sox pitcher. Incredible.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 30, 2021 17:08:17 GMT -5
That first Okajima year is probably the second most dominant I've ever seen a Sox pitcher. Incredible. That first half might rank 4th. I'd say Pedro in 1999 and 2000, Roger in 1986 and 1990 and Koji in 2013.
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Post by jmei on Jul 30, 2021 17:15:40 GMT -5
I loved Koji’s 2013 in part because, as utterly dominant as he was (the best I’ve seen in my adult life), he was self-admittedly a nervous wreck the whole time. Shows that you don’t need to be one of these chest puffed out cocky bastards to be an utterly elite closer. Also, his son was adorable.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2021 17:18:59 GMT -5
There has never been a more likeable Red Sox player than Koji. He just showed his kid-like joy all year long.
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