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4/12-4/15 Red Sox @ Twins Series Thread
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 15, 2021 12:46:13 GMT -5
Does anyone have more warning track power than we do? Rough! bodes well for the summer at least
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 12:49:56 GMT -5
Wooooooo reviews!
That just sucks man!
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 15, 2021 12:50:54 GMT -5
Took the dog for a walk and one batter had passed
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 15, 2021 12:59:28 GMT -5
At this rate the Red Sox will not make it back in time for tomorrow’s game.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 12:59:40 GMT -5
Well that just sucks man. Unfortunate inning
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Apr 15, 2021 13:00:54 GMT -5
Yep. This is a good Sox team surrounded by other good teams which may or may not turn out better. That is the joy of 2021: after a rough couple of seasons, the Sox are competitive again. I think there is little doubt about that.
And these guys, with their persistent team first attitude and drive, coming from behind, riding the laundry cart and dancing around, they are easy to root for. They really might get back to the post season, and might have a sweet spot of 85-90W. They might even have a worst to first redux in them if everything breaks right. Though not expected it wouldn’t be a miracle. But a large part of me doesn’t care about that. I care that both the skills and the effort are equally in play. The Sox are a good team again. Yayy.
All the questions about both the health and skills of its players have, I think, painted a gloom and doom picture of this good team. While I agree that anything could go wrong at any time, this possibility could happen to any team. In fact it is already doing so; including to the Sox already in April (Sale, ERod, Brasier, Mata, Taylor, Franchy, Plawecki). That’s a lot gone wrong. That’s baseball. Yet, Sox talent, depth and drive have compensated.
I am happy and hopeful because the pitchers Andriese, Barnes, Bazardo, Eovaldi, Houck, Pivetta, ERod, Perez, Sawamura, Whitlock, while pleasant surprises to some, have been the opposite of gloom and doom. In this light patience with Darwinzon, Ottavino, Richards, Valdez seems appropriate.
The now established five member core of Bogaerts, Devers, JDM, CV and Verdugo could carry any team. Dalbec with maybe 30HR, 30 Doubles and above average defense would lengthen that core to six. Not many teams have that.
Beyond that core both Arroyo and Franchy are increasingly interesting. Success by either one would contribute to 2021 team success. In fact, after just 12 both have already actually contributed. The team is evolving as we watch.
With well defined constraints in place, Bloom built around the core with established, versatile MLB veterans who don’t have to carry a team, though they have proven they can, and whose skill sets augment those of the core. I am starting to really appreciate their defense, their potential for offense, their hustle, their clubhouse impact. More than versatile, these guys are proven winners who can fill holes very well. I am excited to see what they add to the mix.
Meanwhile, with optimism and excitement, we can look forward to the development of Cases, Downs, Duran, Wong, Bazardo, Groome, Houck, Seabold, Ward and others. So, IMO, this team is good, maybe very good, definitely very interesting, and with a bright future that begins in 2021. Not gonna worry about projected wins or playoff spots because I know, with some certitude now, this team is good, deep, interesting, and worthy of my time and attention. I plan to very much enjoy the ups and Downs of a long season. Go Sox.
Edit. Ooops. Wrote this before the game in response to earlier discussions. Still valid tho.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 13:03:30 GMT -5
Facing Cruz when the bases are jacked when you should be out of the inning must be a sucky feeling
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Post by incandenza on Apr 15, 2021 13:07:05 GMT -5
Well, what I explicitly asked you to say was: which teams look better? Like, yes, they need the rotation to stay healthy, but for which team is that not the case? Do the Yankees look so much more secure with three-fifths of their rotation having combined for exactly 1 IP in 2020? And like eric says, if anything the Red Sox look like they could weather an injury or two to the starting rotation better than most teams.
I predicted 86 wins and a playoff spot before the season started - partly based on what looked like a lot of parity between the 8 or 9 competitive teams in the AL. They've outperformed that pace by 2 games so far, so that should be bumped up to 88 wins. But additionally, at least some questions about the team have already gotten positive answers; in particular; JDM looks like the vintage version, and EduardoRod appears to have completely bounced back. I don't think the hot start really changes my view of this team, on balance (we are in agreement on that!), but I obviously feel even better about their making the playoffs at 88 wins than 86.
Honestly it doesn't matter what you project or what I project. They're going to do what they're going to do, regardless. Right now the Red Sox have looked unbeatable and the rest of the division looks like a mess. That can change. Teams have stretches where they play like juggernauts and they have stretches where they can't get out of their own way. All we have to go by is a very encouraging 12 game stretch. I'll enjoy the ride while hoping that this is a taste of things to come, but I won't commit to this team necessarily being a playoff team, but I won't write it off either, which is more than I would have said 12 games ago - hell even then I said this team had a wide range of outcomes, although I didn't see them in the 90s victory category, so maybe, just maybe, but I think this team, like all the others, will have bumps in the road, ones that are worse than 0-3 and last longer and do more damage which is why I'm not ready to print out world series tickets. But then again, that's what I think. So the hell what? The Sox might have other ideas and make me look foolish? And if they do? Well, that means they're doing well, and that's a helluva lot better than being one of those people that say, "See, I'm right...", as if that actually matters. Nothing you say about the Red Sox in a vacuum is unreasonable. All I'm asking you to do is look at them in the context of the whole league. But you seem very determined not to do that; so be it.
And I guess if you think projections are worthless and uninteresting, then there's not much point in asking you to explain your projection!
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 15, 2021 13:08:07 GMT -5
Thank god it’s over. Really unfortunate error that inning. Cost two runs and maybe an inning or 2 from Richards
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Post by congusgambler33 on Apr 15, 2021 13:21:23 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that after that error, he lost all focus. It caused more damage than it should have. Has to toughen up because those errors are going to happen.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 15, 2021 13:22:53 GMT -5
Defense is shaping up to be a weakness for this team.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 15, 2021 13:25:02 GMT -5
Honestly it doesn't matter what you project or what I project. They're going to do what they're going to do, regardless. Right now the Red Sox have looked unbeatable and the rest of the division looks like a mess. That can change. Teams have stretches where they play like juggernauts and they have stretches where they can't get out of their own way. All we have to go by is a very encouraging 12 game stretch. I'll enjoy the ride while hoping that this is a taste of things to come, but I won't commit to this team necessarily being a playoff team, but I won't write it off either, which is more than I would have said 12 games ago - hell even then I said this team had a wide range of outcomes, although I didn't see them in the 90s victory category, so maybe, just maybe, but I think this team, like all the others, will have bumps in the road, ones that are worse than 0-3 and last longer and do more damage which is why I'm not ready to print out world series tickets. But then again, that's what I think. So the hell what? The Sox might have other ideas and make me look foolish? And if they do? Well, that means they're doing well, and that's a helluva lot better than being one of those people that say, "See, I'm right...", as if that actually matters. Nothing you say about the Red Sox in a vacuum is unreasonable. All I'm asking you to do is look at them in the context of the whole league. But you seem very determined not to do that; so be it. And I guess if you think projections are worthless and uninteresting, then there's not much point in asking you to explain your projection!
I am. I was going under the assumption that the Jays would get something out of Pearson in the rotation, that Springer would impact them. Didn't know Yates would be a complete zero, but I assume at some point Springer will contribute and that offense will be up there with the Sox. So far their pitching has done well although I don't know that will continue. As far as the Yankees go, I do think they'll get some clarity after Cole in the rotation. If the Sox are counting on Sale why can't the Yankees look to Severino who is further along than Sale? And same with Taillon? I figured they'd get more out of then and even German who was good/decent before his issues began. I think their lineup is as good if not better. This is a team that has won 90 - 101 games over the past few years. A 5-7 start isn't some insurmountable start. I am thinking the Rays are going to struggle. Hill/Archer/Wacha is not a great way to replace Snell and Morton. Eventually Patino will be able to show his upside and what he can do. Their lineup has Arozarena and that's it. I figure the upper tier is the Yankees/Twins/White Sox. Toronto/Oakland/Angels/Indians/Red Sox are in the next tier of teams. Frankly I think the best team in the league are the White Sox and I picked them to play the Dodgers in the World Series, a rematch of the 1959 classic. That's the division. We know we're the Orioles are at. Do you really need some sort of detailed analysis of the remaining teams' projections? Should I quit my job and ignore my family to accomplish this? I mean if you weren't a Red Sox fan would it bother you much if I didn't have the Sox projected toward the top as if that really matters? It's projections. If the "experts" aren't right in their projections why should mine be any more or less accurate? Face it, we're Red Sox fans and we know the Red Sox inside and out, better than the other 14 teams in the league. We have a reasonable knowledge of the other teams but most of us aren't experts on their depth or their minor league systems and don't watch the other teams' games enough to get a feel for them the way we do the Red Sox.
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Post by soxfan08 on Apr 15, 2021 13:25:09 GMT -5
Thank god it’s over. Really unfortunate error that inning. Cost two runs and maybe an inning or 2 from Richards Can someone explain to me how that wasn’t considered an error on dalbec in the 2nd and those are earned runs for Richards? Makes no sense
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 13:26:08 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that after that error, he lost all focus. It caused more damage than it should have. Has to toughen up because those errors are going to happen. I don’t think he lost focus, I think he faced good hitters after being put in a rough spot. I mean he got one of the best hitters in the league out with the bases full, it could have gone wayyyyyyyy worse
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Post by Canseco on Apr 15, 2021 13:31:36 GMT -5
Pineda has always been a big dude, but when did he commandeer Grimace’s (the McDonald’s mascot) body?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2021 13:33:42 GMT -5
Pineda has always been a big dude, but when did he commandeer Grimace’s (the McDonald’s mascot) body? He’s thicccccccc He’s clearly gained weight. Like you said before he’s always been big but not this big
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 15, 2021 13:35:03 GMT -5
Going to need all 9 innings to win this one it seems.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 15, 2021 13:36:43 GMT -5
Nothing you say about the Red Sox in a vacuum is unreasonable. All I'm asking you to do is look at them in the context of the whole league. But you seem very determined not to do that; so be it. And I guess if you think projections are worthless and uninteresting, then there's not much point in asking you to explain your projection!
I am. I was going under the assumption that the Jays would get something out of Pearson in the rotation, that Springer would impact them. Didn't know Yates would be a complete zero, but I assume at some point Springer will contribute and that offense will be up there with the Sox. So far their pitching has done well although I don't know that will continue. As far as the Yankees go, I do think they'll get some clarity after Cole in the rotation. If the Sox are counting on Sale why can't the Yankees look to Severino who is further along than Sale? And same with Taillon? I figured they'd get more out of then and even German who was good/decent before his issues began. I think their lineup is as good if not better. This is a team that has won 90 - 101 games over the past few years. A 5-7 start isn't some insurmountable start. I am thinking the Rays are going to struggle. Hill/Archer/Wacha is not a great way to replace Snell and Morton. Eventually Patino will be able to show his upside and what he can do. Their lineup has Arozarena and that's it. I figure the upper tier is the Yankees/Twins/White Sox. Toronto/Oakland/Angels/Indians/Red Sox are in the next tier of teams. Frankly I think the best team in the league are the White Sox and I picked them to play the Dodgers in the World Series, a rematch of the 1959 classic. That's the division. We know we're the Orioles are at. Do you really need some sort of detailed analysis of the remaining teams' projections? Should I quit my job and ignore my family to accomplish this? I mean if you weren't a Red Sox fan would it bother you much if I didn't have the Sox projected toward the top as if that really matters? It's projections. If the "experts" aren't right in their projections why should mine be any more or less accurate? Face it, we're Red Sox fans and we know the Red Sox inside and out, better than the other 14 teams in the league. We have a reasonable knowledge of the other teams but most of us aren't experts on their depth or their minor league systems and don't watch the other teams' games enough to get a feel for them the way we do the Red Sox. I don't know, you write multi-hundred word comments about how you think the Red Sox do, and then say it's a silly discussion and it's unreasonable to challenge your view because it's all meaningless anyway. I feel like I'm getting mixed messages!
Anway, I think the Yankees obviously look like the best team in the AL (though not by a huge amount, especially given their slow start), which is why I haven't included them in that tier of competitive teams I've been mentioning. I don't think the White Sox and Twins are comparable to them, though the White Sox look like they might get there. But I would sort of like to believe LaRussa somehow tanks their chances. FWIW, fangraphs projects the White Sox and Red Sox to both go 80-70 the rest of the way, and for the Twins to do one game better than that.
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Post by kman22 on Apr 15, 2021 13:37:40 GMT -5
Richards reminds me of Bronson Arroyo. Not pitching wise necessarily, but definitely in the face. Didn't really process it until today.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 15, 2021 13:43:22 GMT -5
The absolute number one reason I think this team has playoff potential is the starting pitching. Rodriguez, Eovaldi, Perez, Richards, Pivetta as a staff have been solid, with Houck, Seabold and later Sale available as well, they have the depth to withstand injuries or drop in performance. What a 180 from last year. The starters really only have 1 bad outing on the season so far and there is depth.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 15, 2021 13:46:16 GMT -5
Lmao Remdog and DOB low key calling Pineda fat all game long has been the best part
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2021 13:47:23 GMT -5
Richards was fine/good last time out I’ve seen Sox fans actively rooting against him online, makes no sense to me. They act like he’s garbage when he would’ve been their best pitcher last year. I imagine it’s just a vocal minority he gets grief because the results don't match the pure stuff. It isn't fair, i agree, but I don't expect too much, unless he gets coaching that he responds to.
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Post by manfred on Apr 15, 2021 13:49:50 GMT -5
Richards was fine/good last time out I’ve seen Sox fans actively rooting against him online, makes no sense to me. They act like he’s garbage when he would’ve been their best pitcher last year. I imagine it’s just a vocal minority he gets grief because the results don't match the pure stuff. It isn't fair, i agree, but I don't expect too much, unless he gets coaching that he responds to. I feel like Richards — and Pivetta to a degree — are a bit of an adventure with their command. I mean, Richards has kept it to 2 runs in 4 innings, but 80 pitches is kind of grueling. So... nothing *personal* against Richards... he is just sort of Dice-K-esque.
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Post by manfred on Apr 15, 2021 13:59:42 GMT -5
For all the talk about Dalbec’s K rate, Franchy has struck out at a higher rate in almost as many at-bats. If I’m not mistaken, Franchy has a 44% K rate. His swing is massive.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 15, 2021 14:01:18 GMT -5
Richards reminds me of Bronson Arroyo. Not pitching wise necessarily, but definitely in the face. Didn't really process it until today. That is one trade I wish the Red Sox had never made: Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena! He of the negative career WAR.
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