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4/12-4/15 Red Sox @ Twins Series Thread
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 13, 2021 18:41:30 GMT -5
Honestly... I don’t get it. Sure, he’s gotten some contributors. But who is the engine right now? CVaz, JDM, Devers on O. Eovaldi the ace. ERod back. Barnes the closer. Credit for Perez, certainly credit for the Workman score. But the “master class” features an off-season yield of mostly freeloaders. The worst starter, a bunch ~0 WAR guys — indeed, if you take Arroyo, who is outhitting Kiké, you could argue he wasted money signing the latter. As I wrote above, I may have misjudged how good the *core* of this team is, but thus far there has not been any breakout off season addition. Put differently: besides (for the moment) Whitlock, if they didn’t have any of the offseason new guys (so doesn’t count Perez), who would be missed that much? Add: After today, today’s lineup looks like this Kiké — .594 OPS Verdugo — .194 BA, .675 OPS JDM — 1.427 OPS X — .361 BA, .827 OPS Devers — 1.052 OPS CVaz — .954 OPS Renfroe — .514 OPS Arroyo — .750 OPS Dalbec — .544 OPS Pattern? Franchy is playing good baseball. Kikè had an awful opening series but once he got over it he was hitting well until today in the snow. Sawamura looks good. Ottavino looks pretty good to me. Renfroe had a big role in the win today. The counting stats may not be there for all of them but they’re all having moments that contribute to winning (some more than others) That is an important point and what teams with winning records do. Hopefully, they can find ways to ham and egg all season.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 13, 2021 18:41:32 GMT -5
Rafael is an absolute monster. When Devers is going good -- and this goes back to the Chapman HR -- he does this thing where he's fooled on a pitch and looks bad, and immediately has this look on his face that says "OK, I know what you just did there and it won't work again." He is laying off of tempting pitches outside the zone in this hot stretch better than I've ever seen him.
BTW, I don't think Remy was clear about the quality of the pitch that Devers destroyed. It actually had good movement and was in a good location for most LHB, who often have a hole down and in. But that's not a good pitch to throw Rafael Devers.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 13, 2021 18:42:31 GMT -5
I hope you all are starting to appreciate what a masterclass bridge year rebuild Bloom pulled off. 4th pick + contender by making other teams forgotten players into treasures and selling in a lost COVID season. Honestly... I don’t get it. Sure, he’s gotten some contributors. But who is the engine right now? CVaz, JDM, Devers on O. Eovaldi the ace. ERod back. Barnes the closer. Credit for Perez, certainly credit for the Workman score. But the “master class” features an off-season yield of mostly freeloaders. The worst starter, a bunch ~0 WAR guys — indeed, if you take Arroyo, who is outhitting Kiké, you could argue he wasted money signing the latter. As I wrote above, I may have misjudged how good the *core* of this team is, but thus far there has not been any breakout off season addition. Put differently: besides (for the moment) Whitlock, if they didn’t have any of the offseason new guys (so doesn’t count Perez), who would be missed that much? Add: After today, today’s lineup looks like this Kiké — .594 OPS Verdugo — .194 BA, .675 OPS JDM — 1.427 OPS X — .361 BA, .827 OPS Devers — 1.052 OPS CVaz — .954 OPS Renfroe — .514 OPS Arroyo — .750 OPS Dalbec — .544 OPS Pattern? Martin Pérez- 2 G, 10.0 IP, 4.5 ERA Nick Pivetta - 2 G, 11.0 IP, 3.27 ERA Garrett Witlock - 2 G, 5.1 IP, 0.00 ERA Hirokazu Sawamura - 4 G, 4.1 IP, 0.00 ERA Franchy Cordero - .333/.364/.429/.792
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Post by kevfc89 on Apr 13, 2021 18:43:52 GMT -5
I'm inclined to sort of split the difference between this and ianrs's comment. Yes, there is a lot left to prove. But what has Bloom emphasized from the beginning? Depth. What was this team desperately in need of? Depth. (Need I remind you that even the 2018 team had Eduardo Nunez as a key figure?) What I liked about the off-season moves is that it looked like Bloom was building a team with no real holes. Kiké and Marwin and Renfroe and Arroyo may not be the engine of this team, but they don't need to be.
And this goes all the more for the pitching. The improvement of the starting rotation from last year to this is unbelievable. Houck is the #6 starter, and that's before Sale comes back, and with Whitlock and Seabold in the wings!
That is true... but at this early point, I’d say lives are made relatively easy when you can write Player Player JDM Bogaerts Devers Vasquez Player Player Player Doesn’t take a genius. So your new take is that Chaim bad but team still good?
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Post by soxinsf on Apr 13, 2021 18:44:11 GMT -5
I humbly request a moratorium on complaining about Devers for at least 10 days. Dude is still in the middle of changing from Bruce Banner to the Incredible Hulk. Just wait until he’s, I don’t know, 25? And ten days will do it? Devers has earned a long leash, and Cora has shown that he is willing to give it to him. Devers is not going to hit monster jacks every day and he’s not going to make an error every day. Moreover, there is no viable alternative to Devers at this point. I will agree with you on one point. There is no purpose served in complaining about the next Devers error anymore than there is pointing to one Devers great fielding play as proof that he is a great and accomplished fielder.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 13, 2021 18:59:03 GMT -5
Can't say that Darwinzon is in my circle of trust. Wasn't hoping to see him pitch high leverage. And the ump decides to squeeze him, after having a huge strike zone the entire game.
And now the Twins get a hit off a 67 mph EV...
Phew. He got it done. I can exhale. Cora made it work. I watched a ton of baseball with my Dad growing up. One of the things we used to notice was the contrast between the Red Sox sad parade of pitching coaches and the O's great George Bamberger.
Bamberger routinely fixed bad pitching mechanics on a mound visit. I remember one game in particular where the SP (Mike Flanagan, I think) was struggling in the first and we got ourselves psyched for a big inning. Bamberger came out and fixed him. Like night and day. Our guys never, ever did that.
Bush did a Bamberger on Darwinzon today. He looked much better after the mound visit.
I also give Cora serious props for going, in high leverage, with a guy who's off to a terrible start. But remember that he knows stuff we don't, in this case what's been wrong with D's mechanics, and what progress he's made in straightening them out.
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Post by manfred on Apr 13, 2021 19:16:07 GMT -5
That is true... but at this early point, I’d say lives are made relatively easy when you can write Player Player JDM Bogaerts Devers Vasquez Player Player Player Doesn’t take a genius. So your new take is that Chaim bad but team still good? No. My claim is a response to the post that called this “master class” by Bloom. He has done well, but I’d say his contribution ought not yet be overblown.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 13, 2021 19:56:06 GMT -5
So your new take is that Chaim bad but team still good? No. My claim is a response to the post that called this “master class” by Bloom. He has done well, but I’d say his contribution ought not yet be overblown. You assume that everyone expect you thinks Bloom is a baseball God. That simply is not true as the vast majority of RS fans posting understand who Bloom has signed! Bloom has plugged the holes he needed to on a very strict budget. The players he signed are NOT stars, nor is anyone saying that they are. Most of us posting are in agreement with you on that fact, and you really do not need to continually point out the fact that he has not signed stars, because that is obvious! Continuing to beat the same drum over, and over has become tiresome. The vast majority of other RS fans on this site understand what Bloom is doing just as you do.
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Post by manfred on Apr 13, 2021 20:23:43 GMT -5
No. My claim is a response to the post that called this “master class” by Bloom. He has done well, but I’d say his contribution ought not yet be overblown. You assume that everyone expect you thinks Bloom is a baseball God. That simply is not true as the vast majority of RS fans posting understand who Bloom has signed! Bloom has plugged the holes he needed to on a very strict budget. The players he signed are NOT stars, nor is anyone saying that they are. Most of us posting are in agreement with you on that fact, and you really do not need to continually point out the fact that he has not signed stars, because that is obvious! Continuing to beat the same drum over, and over has become tiresome. The vast majority of other RS fans on this site understand what Bloom is doing just as you do. I was literally quoting a post. I wasn’t assuming anything about anyone else. I was responding directly to a phrase.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 13, 2021 20:24:54 GMT -5
Sawamura's demeanor is that of a closer, especially in light of his Japanese baseball culture background.
The long anticipated arrival of Buxton seems to have finally arrived.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 13, 2021 20:34:33 GMT -5
On a technical note, the Bloom Shrine building permits have been applied for. The auditorium frontage is optional depending on future events.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Apr 13, 2021 20:58:20 GMT -5
Sawamura's demeanor is that of a closer, especially in light of his Japanese baseball culture background. The long anticipated arrival of Buxton seems to have finally arrived. I'd go there also Phil. Sawamura looks fearless on the mound. Kind of surprised he was "burned" early in the game today instead of being used later. he does have Sox closer written all over him is my 2c should/when Barnes walk away.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 13, 2021 21:04:23 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10.
The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Apr 13, 2021 21:29:30 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. Thanks Chris, I think most all of us agree with this, so we do not have to rehash the fact that we actually agree 😀 On another note, according to espn stats: The Red Sox currently lead the AL in: Runs Hits Doubles RBIs BA They are 2nd in the league in: HRs TB Very nice start by the Red Sox even if 6 of 10 games were against the Os.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Apr 13, 2021 21:43:54 GMT -5
Arroyo was my mvp for the game today, just really great stuff all around
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Post by johnsilver52 on Apr 13, 2021 22:44:38 GMT -5
If things broke perfect I guess it would have involved putting a winner on the field, but it's still very early of course and you left 1 important thing out Chris.. Not going over the luxury tax threshold for needless additions quite yet, or a season-2 early before his team is ready to seriously compete.
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Post by voiceofreason on Apr 14, 2021 1:56:23 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. Very Tampa Bayish, getting it done with less.
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Post by cheers on Apr 14, 2021 6:37:13 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. In this regard, the off-season/early season has a "let's try to not suck in 2013 while we look toward the future" vibe. Let's hope it turns out similarly (sans local tragedy, of course). In my book, anything past 82 wins this year is gravy, and I'm feeling better about that. SSS be damned.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 14, 2021 7:45:21 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. It sort of did, though. A big part of the M.O. is to find players that are undervalued and that have upside. Hitting on enough of those makes you a contender. The organization has made it clear that they want to contend every year, and hitting on a majority of your upside acquisitions is this year's path to that possibility. As far as small samples, I want to remind folks again that they finished last year 12-9 against teams so good that it amounted to a 98-win pace. Roster changes since then: Then Now Bradley Renfroe Chavis* Hernandez Munoz* Cordero Arauz* Gonzalez Lin Brice* Mazza Rodriguez* Weber* Richards Brasier* Andriese Kickham Whitlock Springs Taylor* Covey Ottavino Stock Samamura
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Apr 14, 2021 8:31:30 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. Wouldn't it be better to say "the plan never involved a team that was likely to win in 2021"?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2021 9:26:47 GMT -5
So while manfred's constant Bloom-bashing this offseason was tiresome, frustrating, repetitive, and annoying as hell, his point here is completely legitimate. We shouldn't call for his head after 3, we shouldn't crown him after 10. The plan never involved winning in 2021. It involves building a sustainable winner and putting a team on the field this year without any holes in which there was a player who couldn't potentially contribute to the future, whether by staying in the org or at least being a trade piece. I think he has done that, but it's step one. Wouldn't it be better to say "the plan never involved a team that was likely to win in 2021"? That would be a better way to phrase it. Do we have a college professor correcting a lawyer's verbiage? I don't think that Bloom "went all in" on this year's Red Sox team. Nor do I think Bloom has the entire organization where he wants it to be, but he is working on it and you can see the difference. He's trying to build an entire organization with talent oozing out of every level. That's the ideal goal for any GM/Baseball Chief obviously, but his plan probably involves the Red Sox in a position where the Dodgers are now, flush with talent on the field and with reinforcements coming up throughout their minor league system. I don't think the Red Sox will be exactly what Bloom wants it to be for probably another couple of years or so but he's got in on the path, and obviously he has built a team for this year that doesn't compromise his long-term vision and even has a chance to make the playoffs if a bunch of gambles pay off. If not, I'm sure he'll figure out a way to turn an organizational profit on what player transactions he would make to improve the team in the future. Either way, he's building toward the middle of this decade something that will hopefully last for quite awhile.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 14, 2021 9:28:48 GMT -5
Well, I've gotta say, the Red Sox are capable of doing great things when they start off 0-3, don't they?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 14, 2021 9:47:45 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 14, 2021 10:17:14 GMT -5
Same difference. I meant that they weren't constructing this team with the goal of winning the 2021 World Series. They certainly were trying to put a competitive team on the field but I don't think that's the same thing. Putting a competitive team on the field, you can certainly wind up in contention and can make a call then on whether to load up (if they're in the playoff hunt, I don't think it'd be crazy to add at the deadline, but I also don't think they move anyone they think can help in the future to do so).
Semantics, but same idea.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Apr 14, 2021 10:52:36 GMT -5
Apparently Brewer was the first option to be called up, but didn't feel great after his latest bullpen, so they went with Bazardo instead. Would rather see Bazardo anyway, so works out for the best.
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