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4/29-5/2 Red Sox @ Rangers Series Thread
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Post by unitspin on May 2, 2021 16:47:38 GMT -5
Think of it this way. Ottavino had to give up three runs at some time. Now the only question is when will be the next time? Besides, Barnes barely used up an appearance. The next thing you know, some poster is going to tell us that the June swoon has already begun. No they have a pretty easy schedule coming up. So if they can't turn it around in the next two series then this season will get ugly.
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Post by incandenza on May 2, 2021 16:53:44 GMT -5
Garrett Richards though. His having a second straight great start is probably more important than the loss. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, an effective Richards... which AL team's rotation would you take over that in the playoffs? Maaaybe the White Sox; I'm not sure if anybody else. As for the bullpen, I think it'll be real solid with Darwinzon as the closer and Barnes as the set-up man.
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Post by Guidas on May 2, 2021 16:57:21 GMT -5
I was not a huge fan of Dombrowski - in fact I was pretty vocal in my objection of the Kimbrel (I was livid at losing Margot for a reliever) and Thornburg (ditto regarding Dubon and Shaw) trades, and not a huge fan of him extending Sale before the season or his post World Series moves (although I was all for retaining Eovaldi). But one thing I did respect was that he kept his focus firmly on the fact that an MLB team's first objective is to win at the MLB level. Also, he did resist the temptation/opportunity to trade Devers, Dalbec and a few others. In terms of who he did trade, sans the Sale deal which I think the bulk of us supported, other than Margot and Shaw, I'm trying to recall who he moved that "gutted" the system. Maybe I missed someone but most of the guys who went out the door were org guys. I agree with the part of your contention that the rich signings really hurt. In fact, in my mind that was the real "gutting." Extending an oft-injured Sale (coming off an injury, no less) before the 2019 season and resigning Pearce and Kelly (and many will say Eovaldi though I think he will earn out his contract using Fangraphs WAR to dollars conversion) using up a ton of salary when the team could've been improved - and even Henry saying "I didn't think we were going to bring back the exact same players." I know a lot of people now point to the Price signing but, again, I think the board was pretty supportive of that move when it was made and it gave up no prospects. Anyway, the model should be the Dodgers, and may be long term, but that won't happen until this organization learns how to draft and develop starting pitchers who are more than 5s at best. LAD has done this well under Friedman, as well as drafting and developing MLB-average or better position players, despite picking as low, if not lower than Boston. I would agree the gutting of system was the signings. But the Pom trade wasn’t the best, in so far that he dealt a highly rated starter for him. ( I realize it didn’t work out but that value could have been better spent elsewhere). Again bloom will always look for tomorrow ( he has as much stated it in interviews). The question will be how much of an extent does it affect the today. We most definitely have holes on this team. How will we plug them without trading to much of our future away They need to buy some. That's part of why I was advocating for Springer in the off-season. I still contend they could've afforded him, too. He signed for $21M a year - they lost JBJ's $11M and wouldn't've needed Renfroe's $3M, so it could've been a net add of $7M this year. In 2022 Pedroia's money is gone so that covers the $7m and gives you $$$ to play with. Anyway, first place in May aside, they need another big piece to legitimately compete - and maybe two if JDM opts out - and there's nothing like that in the farm system anywhere near MLB ready.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 2, 2021 16:57:29 GMT -5
You cannot be mentally softer than the Red Sox over the past 24 hours. Loser baseball. Well, I don't think that. It did appear that the Sox mailed in the 9th but their pitcher is a strike throwing machine pitching against our poorest hitters...who obviously couldn't afford to get behind in the count. It was a dispiriting loss given that we wasted scoring opportunities and having 4-5 guys who can't deliver. For me Ottavino does not get into 1 run games period. ...Big lead, far behind, trot him out. Imagine he was even considered for closer??
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 16:58:43 GMT -5
Garrett Richards though. His having a second straight great start is probably more important than the loss. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, an effective Richards... which AL team's rotation would you take over that in the playoffs? Maaaybe the White Sox; I'm not sure if anybody else. As for the bullpen, I think it'll be real solid with Darwinzon as the closer and Barnes as the set-up man. Easy... some of us are a bit superstitious. Rattling off four guys who you just hope not to wake up to find are off for an MRI as your rotation in October seems like something that should be uttered walking under a ladder in a raging sea of black cats.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on May 2, 2021 16:59:03 GMT -5
Have to hit the type of pitchers we’ve been facing. I’m not sure how this team manages to get to the stars but can’t touch the average Joes. I think a lot of it is that we simply don’t get on base. The bottom of the orders OBP would be a below average BA.
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Post by Guidas on May 2, 2021 16:59:21 GMT -5
Garrett Richards though. His having a second straight great start is probably more important than the loss.Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, an effective Richards... which AL team's rotation would you take over that in the playoffs? Maaaybe the White Sox; I'm not sure if anybody else. As for the bullpen, I think it'll be real solid with Darwinzon as the closer and Barnes as the set-up man. I completely agree. If Richards turns out to be what we've seen in the last two starts more or less for the rest of the year, he will be Bloom's greatest off season signing (although Witlock, not technically a signing, could turn out to be a close #2).
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Post by julyanmorley on May 2, 2021 17:03:59 GMT -5
Feels nice knowing the Red Sox have the option to pay Richards another $8.5 million to get him for 2022.
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 17:08:31 GMT -5
I might be alone, but I’m not on the Richards duck boat yet. He was not nearly as sharp today as he was last game, and the thing I want to watch is if he can continue to get guys to chase curves out of the zone. If so, he’s golden. If not, he is back to high counts, more walks.
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Post by incandenza on May 2, 2021 17:08:53 GMT -5
Garrett Richards though. His having a second straight great start is probably more important than the loss. Sale, Rodriguez, Eovaldi, an effective Richards... which AL team's rotation would you take over that in the playoffs? Maaaybe the White Sox; I'm not sure if anybody else. As for the bullpen, I think it'll be real solid with Darwinzon as the closer and Barnes as the set-up man. Easy... some of us are a bit superstitious. Rattling off four guys who you just hope not to wake up to find are off for an MRI as your rotation in October seems like something that should be uttered walking under a ladder in a raging sea of black cats. This is true! But the same sentiment would apply just as well to the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, Twins, White Sox, Indians, Royals, A's, Astros, Mariners, and Angels. And not all of those teams have the depth the Red Sox do in their 5th-7th starters.
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 17:11:37 GMT -5
Easy... some of us are a bit superstitious. Rattling off four guys who you just hope not to wake up to find are off for an MRI as your rotation in October seems like something that should be uttered walking under a ladder in a raging sea of black cats. This is true! But the same sentiment would apply just as well to the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, Twins, White Sox, Indians, Royals, A's, Astros, Mariners, and Angels. And not all of those teams have the depth the Red Sox do in their 5th-7th starters.
True... but I don’t *care* if you jinx their starters!
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on May 2, 2021 17:12:04 GMT -5
I might be alone, but I’m not on the Richards duck boat yet. He was not nearly as sharp today as he was last game, and the thing I want to watch is if he can continue to get guys to chase curves out of the zone. If so, he’s golden. If not, he is back to high counts, more walks. Yeah we’ll see but I think the difference between him and some guys who get huge contracts isn’t as large as the delta in AAV especially when you factor in contract length. It’s much lower risk and the upside is still there. If he falls on his face, we’re not going to have to pass on another FA as a result.
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Post by incandenza on May 2, 2021 17:24:56 GMT -5
This is true! But the same sentiment would apply just as well to the Yankees, Blue Jays, Rays, Twins, White Sox, Indians, Royals, A's, Astros, Mariners, and Angels. And not all of those teams have the depth the Red Sox do in their 5th-7th starters.
True... but I don’t *care* if you jinx their starters! Oh I'm sure I haven't been granted jinxing powers yet. Gotta be an old-timer like jerrygarciaparra for that.
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Post by wildsox on May 2, 2021 17:41:01 GMT -5
Definitely not happy with how that series played out... but we are in 1st place with our 6,7,8,9 batters doing absolutely nothing. If we can just hang in there until either Duran is ready or they can trade/find another OF we’ll be ok.
Richards doing well without his best stuff today and Darwinzon continuing to be dominant are massive positives
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Post by foreverred9 on May 2, 2021 17:44:14 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
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Post by Guidas on May 2, 2021 17:48:48 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
Plate discipline? Third worst in baseball. This is a little thing that they could improve without spending a dime and generate potentially a significantly better OBP. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=5&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 17:54:23 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
I wonder if we feel burned by the bullpen so feel it is worse than it is. Barnes, Whitlock, Andriese, maybe Darwinzon now all look very good, even with hiccups the last two days. In an ALDS, too, that reliever could be Houck, maybe Pivetta... hell maybe Sale. Anyway.... I look at the teams we’ve played and don’t see bullpens I’d trade our for without hesitation.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on May 2, 2021 18:42:57 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
This aligns with my thinking lately about what we might need at the deadline if we're still in the race. (And I'm not convinced we will be. This team's early success felt fragile to me and even more so now.) Our batting order is a bat short at the top and in the middle. KKH is absolutely crushing this team in the leadoff spot with his .277 OBP. As others have noted, the lineup falls off drastically after Devers. The bats should come at 1B and OF. Even if Bobby Bombs improves, we probably still need a LHH 1B and we definitely need an OF to take PAs away from the guys at the bottom of the roster. The BP might straighten itself out as Cora sorts through who's good and who isn't. In the past few years, we've seen the RS make deadline acquisitions that helped without giving up the farm. Addison Reed, Brad Ziegler, E-Nunez, Pearce and Eovaldi come to mind. They were all acquired under D-Dom, who wasn't exactly careful about trading prospects. I have to think CB will be able to make some decent deals.
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Post by incandenza on May 2, 2021 19:08:48 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
This aligns with my thinking lately about what we might need at the deadline if we're still in the race. (And I'm not convinced we will be. This team's early success felt fragile to me and even more so now.) Our batting order is a bat short at the top and in the middle. KKH is absolutely crushing this team in the leadoff spot with his .277 OBP. As others have noted, the lineup falls off drastically after Devers. The other day when ericmvan was making the argument that Kiké has a super special ability to lead off games, he pointed out that he's batting .350/.350/.500 in that role. Well, he's now down to .292/.292/.417. (Still no walks!)
To be fair, that .292 OBP is better than his overall OBP in the last calendar year (256 PAs), which is .270.
I've been fairly optimistic about Kiké to this point, but he's almost 30 and since the beginning of 2019 he's hit .234/.292/.408, good for an 86 wRC+, and I'm starting to think that what we've seen from him is pretty much what we're going to get.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
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Post by nomar on May 2, 2021 19:10:00 GMT -5
This aligns with my thinking lately about what we might need at the deadline if we're still in the race. (And I'm not convinced we will be. This team's early success felt fragile to me and even more so now.) Our batting order is a bat short at the top and in the middle. KKH is absolutely crushing this team in the leadoff spot with his .277 OBP. As others have noted, the lineup falls off drastically after Devers. The other day when ericmvan was making the argument that Kiké has a super special ability to lead off games, he pointed out that he's batting .350/.350/.500 in that role. Well, he's now down to .292/.292/.417. (Still no walks!)
To be fair, that .292 OBP is better than his overall OBP in the last calendar year (256 PAs), which is .270. I've been fairly optimistic about Kiké to this point, but he's almost 30 and since the beginning of 2019 he's hit .234/.292/.408, good for an 86 wRC+, and I'm starting to think that what we've seen from him is pretty much what we're going to get.
(It is)
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Post by Guidas on May 2, 2021 19:17:09 GMT -5
This aligns with my thinking lately about what we might need at the deadline if we're still in the race. (And I'm not convinced we will be. This team's early success felt fragile to me and even more so now.) Our batting order is a bat short at the top and in the middle. KKH is absolutely crushing this team in the leadoff spot with his .277 OBP. As others have noted, the lineup falls off drastically after Devers. The other day when ericmvan was making the argument that Kiké has a super special ability to lead off games, he pointed out that he's batting .350/.350/.500 in that role. Well, he's now down to .292/.292/.417. (Still no walks!)
To be fair, that .292 OBP is better than his overall OBP in the last calendar year (256 PAs), which is .270. I've been fairly optimistic about Kiké to this point, but he's almost 30 and since the beginning of 2019 he's hit .234/.292/.408, good for an 86 wRC+, and I'm starting to think that what we've seen from him is pretty much what we're going to get.
His lifetime is .239/.310/.423, so yes, he's in that general neighborhood. This is why I've been contending from minute 1 that he has no business anywhere near the front of the line-up unless it's in the nine hole. If Cora wants to get innovative, try Arroyo there for a couple or three weeks, otherwise, it should probably be Verdugo with Xander batting 2nd and JD 3rd and Devers 4th. I mean, if Arroyo can continue with a .350 OBP that's good enough to lead-off, but I'm not sure he's the guy you want getting the most ABs on the team. Anyway, after those five guys, it's a black hole until the Ice Horse comes up or one of these other guys familiarizes himself with the concept of a "strike zone" and "OBP." And don't get me started about how Benintendi's doing.
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 20:03:03 GMT -5
This seems like as good a time as any to assess the balance sheet. What else am I missing? Pros:- Top 4 of Verdugo, Xander, JDM, and Devers look to be as good as any top 4 in the league.
- Starting pitching looks solid and has plenty of depth with Sale potentially coming back and a strong core behind Pivetta/Perez
Cons:- Huge cliff after Devers. Too many hitters that should only crack the lineup as the number 9 hitter.
- Relief pitching unreliable behind Barnes. Who do we go to in the 7th and 8th inning of the ALDS game 5?
This aligns with my thinking lately about what we might need at the deadline if we're still in the race. (And I'm not convinced we will be. This team's early success felt fragile to me and even more so now.) Our batting order is a bat short at the top and in the middle. KKH is absolutely crushing this team in the leadoff spot with his .277 OBP. As others have noted, the lineup falls off drastically after Devers. The bats should come at 1B and OF. Even if Bobby Bombs improves, we probably still need a LHH 1B and we definitely need an OF to take PAs away from the guys at the bottom of the roster. The BP might straighten itself out as Cora sorts through who's good and who isn't. In the past few years, we've seen the RS make deadline acquisitions that helped without giving up the farm. Addison Reed, Brad Ziegler, E-Nunez, Pearce and Eovaldi come to mind. They were all acquired under D-Dom, who wasn't exactly careful about trading prospects. I have to think CB will be able to make some decent deals. Of course, the holes are in the places Bloom spent a good deal of the winter on — not signing a 1b (like Mitch Moreland, who makes less than Renfroe, less than Marwin ); deciding Kiké was an everyday guy; deciding Franchy and Renfroe could not only platoon but play side-by-side; deciding Marwin could be the main backup to all. So we’ll see if he makes decent deals.
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Post by soxinsf on May 2, 2021 20:06:56 GMT -5
It is time for Duran. Franchy is either a failure or needs an extended period in AAA, if not even AA to let him settle down under less pressure.
And while there is no guarantee that Duran will be better as a leadoff hitter than Enrique, what is the harm in finding out? It is not like Enrique is anything more than adequate.
The argument that Duran needs AAA seasoning falls completely apart under investigation. Just who did he hit against last year? And what is the level of the Puerto Rico League and the Caribe Series?
All arguably up to AAA, at least in part. Duran is no 19 year old kid. He is a seasoned player. And the Red Sox clearly need help. Now.
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Post by manfred on May 2, 2021 20:15:11 GMT -5
It is time for Duran. Franchy is either a failure or needs an extended period in AAA, if not even AA to let him settle down under less pressure. And while there is no guarantee that Duran will be better as a leadoff hitter than Enrique, what is the harm in finding out? It is not like Enrique is anything more than adequate. The argument that Duran needs AAA seasoning falls completely apart under investigation. Just who did he hit against last year? And what is the level of the Puerto Rico League and the Caribe Series? All arguably up to AAA, at least in part. Duran is no 19 year old kid. He is a seasoned player. And the Red Sox clearly need help. Now. Not so fast... for one thing, many people say he needs a lot of defensive work. But who *did* he hit? In AA in 2019, he was .250/.309/.325. Not much better than Kiké is doing now.... but two levels down. And in Caguas, he was .236/.386/.273. So even the examples you cite... he wasn’t exactly an unstoppable force. I’m fine with bringing him up later if he looks good when thr minor league season opens. I’m also really excited about him long-term. But he can’t be looked at as *the fix,* when he has a lot of development left.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 2, 2021 20:19:21 GMT -5
Did he "decide" these things, or did he "decide to see if" these guys are these things?
Again, bridge year. We knew at the time these weren't the decisions of a team trying to push in its chips for 2021.
I'm interested to see how things change now. It's very clear Cordero needs to go to AAA (1 for his last 34 with 19 Ks). Seems like figuring out a way to work Chavis is makes the most sense.
And yeah I'm not sure it's time for Duran yet. I'm still not quite sure how you make it work with Chavis without being willing to play him in LF but they need to try something.
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