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Post by manfred on May 4, 2021 21:29:05 GMT -5
That may have been baseball history’s most inevitable double play.
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Post by foreverred9 on May 4, 2021 21:29:16 GMT -5
Thankfully it was Cabrera's spot in the order up. Fastball right down the middle becomes an inning-ending GIDP.
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Post by Coreno on May 4, 2021 21:32:34 GMT -5
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nomar
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Post by nomar on May 4, 2021 21:32:37 GMT -5
Sheesh that was a bullet by Kiké
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Post by kevfc89 on May 4, 2021 21:33:51 GMT -5
I approve of Kiké swinging at strikes and spitting on balls tonight.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 4, 2021 21:55:40 GMT -5
Good win. Bullpen is getting a little dicey but overall a win is a win and it’s good to see the bats come alive
Defense is the big concern so far imo
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Post by incandenza on May 4, 2021 21:58:53 GMT -5
So Brice made everything worse tonight, and every other time he's pitched, pretty much. And Phillips Valdez hasn't pitched since April 24th, which means even if there's some injury issue there they might as well have put him on the IL. And Barnes had a 5-out save and is on pace to throw 86 innings in 81 appearances. And for the love of god what is the point of keeping to a 3-man bench, if this is the way they're using the expanded bullpen?
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Post by foreverred9 on May 4, 2021 22:16:48 GMT -5
OK I'm joining the crew, this roster construction is a joke - expanding it to 26 men should have given them more flexibility but somehow they are operating like it's a 23 or 24-man roster. Perhaps if they used their whole bullpen maybe it would be ok, and maybe that's on Cora for not using the full pen, but at this point we have wasted roster spots.
We are definitely losing value with this "formation". We keep complaining about the bottom 4 being so bad but with this 12-man lineup, what are the alternatives? You can barely even give players breathers.
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Post by manfred on May 4, 2021 22:43:18 GMT -5
Part of my frustration with the roster stems from signing both Marwin and Kiké to be super utility guys... but then essentially making Kiké the CF. I groused at the time that it was not a great signing because he would be pretty mediocre as a CF.... and people said his ability to play all over made it worth it. But when you have basically one fully functioning outfielder, it locks him in. And I like Marwin, but he basically is the entire bench and is not a great hitter.
A lot of this cascades from having a platoon take two spots and be combined not very good. And the fact that Franch-n-Froe is not good was predictable.
Truthfully, Arroyo’s strong play has been a godsend. Imagine if Marwin had to step in full time at 2b? All that great flexibility would be kaputt.
Add: don’t tell me Renfroe is coming on because he’s feasted on the Tigers and Rangers. I’ll believe it when I see it against real pitching.
Second edit: it might be time to consider having Dalbec room with Franchy in Worcester. What is the back up plan at 1st?
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Post by Jimmy on May 4, 2021 22:51:03 GMT -5
* What the hell is the deal with Valdez? Has anyone asked Cora about this? It’s not like he’s been bad this year. Injury?
* Swap Franchy for Chavis. Come on man. Franchy has options. MiLB has started. Clearly needs to go figure it out. Chavis played well in Spring Training. Chavis is a CLEAR upgrade and I cannot be told otherwise on that one.
* Is Bazardo working some stuff out in AAA, similar to Houck working his splitter? If not bring him up. Have the extra LHP in Taylor was nice in theory. But there’s really no use in having the extra LHP every time if he’s going to get shelled regardless.
* Renfroe would have been on this list a week ago but he’s up to .220/.275/.389 after today which is grim but he’s trending in the right direction at least. I get it was shit teams but I’ll take it at this point. I will spare him for now.
There’s two moves that clearly make the Sox a better team. Maybe there’s reasons for not doing it but it’s not clear to me. Brice was bad today but he’s actually been alright for the rest of the season so I’ll give him a break in the exercise. Regardless I think he’s pitching for his job from now until when Santana is ready. Or maybe he gets lucky and they option Taylor for the Santana spot.
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Post by Jimmy on May 4, 2021 22:52:54 GMT -5
Part of my frustration with the roster stems from signing both Marwin and Kiké to be super utility guys... but then essentially making Kiké the CF. I groused at the time that it was not a great signing because he would be pretty mediocre as a CF.... and people said his ability to play all over made it worth it. But when you have basically one fully functioning outfielder, it locks him in. And I like Marwin, but he basically is the entire bench and is not a great hitter. A lot of this cascades from having a platoon take two spots and be combined not very good. And the fact that Franch-n-Froe is not good was predictable. Truthfully, Arroyo’s strong play has been a godsend. Imagine if Marwin had to step in full time at 2b? All that great flexibility would be kaputt. Add: don’t tell me Renfroe is coming on because he’s feasted on the Tigers and Rangers. I’ll believe it when I see it against real pitching. Second edit: it might be time to consider having Dalbec room with Franchy in Worcester. What is the back up plan at 1st? Willing to give Dalbec more run than Franchy due to his prospect status and the fact that Marwin is the backup plan at first. Franchy needs to go to AAA. I’m not quitting on him (yet) but he clearly needs to go figure it out at least.
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Post by marrcus on May 4, 2021 23:14:06 GMT -5
I thought it was Chavis? If he starts hitting AAA pitching I would think they would consider sending Dalbec to Wor unless he snaps out of it.
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Post by Jimmy on May 4, 2021 23:23:32 GMT -5
I thought it was Chavis? If he starts hitting AAA pitching I would think they would consider sending Dalbec to Wor unless he snaps out of it. I guess counterpoint to that is who do you call up in addition to Chavis if you send Franchy AND Dalbec down? I’m not there with Dalbec yet. He flashed last year. He’s a good prospect. I’ll give him some run. On the bright side he doesn’t look as lost as Franchy.
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Post by Jimmy on May 4, 2021 23:27:17 GMT -5
Did anyone watch the post game show on NESN? What did they end up trading this guy for the ball? The fact that negations got tense over a HUNTER RENFROE home run ball is hilarious.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 4, 2021 23:27:56 GMT -5
I guess counterpoint to that is who do you call up in addition to Chavis if you send Franchy AND Dalbec down? I’m not there with Dalbec yet. He flashed last year. He’s a good prospect. I’ll give him some run. On the bright side he doesn’t look as lost as Franchy. Brainer Bonaci and Blaze Jordan #TheBrainiac #BlazeIt
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Post by Jimmy on May 4, 2021 23:31:30 GMT -5
So Brice made everything worse tonight, and every other time he's pitched, pretty much. And Phillips Valdez hasn't pitched since April 24th, which means even if there's some injury issue there they might as well have put him on the IL. And Barnes had a 5-out save and is on pace to throw 86 innings in 81 appearances. And for the love of god what is the point of keeping to a 3-man bench, if this is the way they're using the expanded bullpen? That’s a gross stat on Barnes I didn’t realize it was that bad. Is Andriese any better? Could start slotting him in. I also think that Whitlock in an Andrew Miller Indians playoff role (8th and 9th inning) to close games every fifth day should be in consideration as well. Allows you to kind of keep stretching him and also take the burden off Barnes. Maybe not a good idea but something to consider.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 5, 2021 0:07:42 GMT -5
Ugly win. 3rd game in a row that the bullpen kind of failed, although this was primarily Brice, who like others have said, is holding a spot that another guy off the bench should hold. And as others have asked, has a Missing Persons report been issued on Valdez? He seems to have dropped off the face of the earth about ten days ago.
I found myself imagining a scenario, based off of a ridiculous sample size of 3 innings, that somehow Darwinzon Hernandez was going to limit the walks and become an 8th inning force - and then he goes from 0-2 to promptly walking Grossman, and then issues another walk.
The Red Sox won because they were fortunate to face the living corpse of Miguel Cabrera. I remember when Junichi Tazawa got the best of an injured Cabrera in the 2013 ALCS and that still felt great because even injured, he was a beast. Now watching him look so powerless at the plate, it's kind of sad to watch. He was basically the Red Sox' escape hatch tonight.
Which shouldn't have had to happen. The Tigers never should have been in the game, but Pivetta had one of his five and dive performances where he runs up the pitch count too quickly, Brice was awful and Hernandez was wild. Maybe it's a given the 8th inning guy has to be wild, whether it's Ottavino or Hernandez.
On the plus side, Kiké Hernandez and Hunter Renfroe had good games and contributed something to the offense.
I'm with others on Dalbec...give him a little more time, like another month or so, but if he's not producing, they would have to send him down and call up Chavis or potentially look externally for a temporary answer.
The Red Sox need to eventually get to a place where it's Gonzalez who's on the bench, Renfroe who's on the bench against a righty, Hernandez not leading off anymore, and where they're getting league average production out of LF and 1b. A reliable 8th inning setup guy would doesn't walk the ballpark would help, too.
They have to find a way to take the pressure off of Barnes as well.
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soxinsf
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Post by soxinsf on May 5, 2021 0:16:49 GMT -5
Part of my frustration with the roster stems from signing both Marwin and Kiké to be super utility guys... but then essentially making Kiké the CF. I groused at the time that it was not a great signing because he would be pretty mediocre as a CF.... and people said his ability to play all over made it worth it. But when you have basically one fully functioning outfielder, it locks him in. And I like Marwin, but he basically is the entire bench and is not a great hitter. A lot of this cascades from having a platoon take two spots and be combined not very good. And the fact that Franch-n-Froe is not good was predictable. Truthfully, Arroyo’s strong play has been a godsend. Imagine if Marwin had to step in full time at 2b? All that great flexibility would be kaputt. Add: don’t tell me Renfroe is coming on because he’s feasted on the Tigers and Rangers. I’ll believe it when I see it against real pitching. Second edit: it might be time to consider having Dalbec room with Franchy in Worcester. What is the back up plan at 1st? Willing to give Dalbec more run than Franchy due to his prospect status and the fact that Marwin is the backup plan at first. Franchy needs to go to AAA. I’m not quitting on him (yet) but he clearly needs to go figure it out at least. It is, of course, correct to wonder what is to become of Dalbec. He gets a longer leash than Franchy, but that longer leash is not indefinite, and, for the moment, Bobby is failing badly. Between the two of them, they do not add up to one Renfroe. That is how much trouble the two them are in. Chavis for Cordero makes sense because there is not a left handed bat available today other than Duran. While he would be my choice, he is not seen as ready today so Chavis it is. And Santana, when he is ready, for Bobby unless Bobby comes around. As for Cora’s use of the pen, he is like managers everywhere, when pushed, he feels the need to go with his best until he goes too far. The hope is that he doesn’t ruin someone in the process.
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Post by wildsox on May 5, 2021 2:42:53 GMT -5
I see a lot about Dalbec, Franchy and Renfroe struggling. But under the radar Marwin is hitting just as poor as Bobby and worse than Renfroe.
I do think they should keep running Dalbec out there and let him find his way out of it as we know from last year he can do it. Franchy on the other hand can use the ABs in AAA
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Post by orion09 on May 5, 2021 4:31:46 GMT -5
A reminder that Dalbec still has the 8th worst wOBA-xwOBA differential in MLB, so based on quality of contact we should expect his results to improve.
Also a reminder that Franchy has a worse xwOBA than Garrett Richards as a hitter.
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Post by Guidas on May 5, 2021 6:02:48 GMT -5
Great win!
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Post by Guidas on May 5, 2021 6:09:08 GMT -5
A reminder that Dalbec still has the 8th worst wOBA-xwOBA differential in MLB, so based on quality of contact we should expect his results to improve. Also a reminder that Franchy has a worse xwOBA than Garrett Richards as a hitter. This. Dalbec’s been making hard contact but right at guys. Franchy’s just missing the ball at the plate.
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Post by Guidas on May 5, 2021 6:12:54 GMT -5
Did anyone watch the post game show on NESN? What did they end up trading this guy for the ball? The fact that negations got tense over a HUNTER RENFROE home run ball is hilarious. “…And two season tickets on the monster for next year. And dinner at Abe and Louie’s with Kathryn Tappen and I don’t care if she doesn’t work for NESN any more.! Get her back! And..”
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 5, 2021 8:58:45 GMT -5
Did anyone watch the post game show on NESN? What did they end up trading this guy for the ball? The fact that negations got tense over a HUNTER RENFROE home run ball is hilarious. “…And two season tickets on the monster for next year. And dinner at Abe and Louie’s with Kathryn Tappen and I don’t care if she doesn’t work for NESN any more.! Get her back! And..” Listen, I have lived out of the area for most of the last 2 decades so I haven't been to Fenway in a long time: they still have those POS wooden seats??? Seriously? Those were ancient 30 years ago! Looks like maybe they upgraded the butts but the backs look the same.
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Post by incandenza on May 5, 2021 11:00:55 GMT -5
Weirdly, as someone who was never that high on Dalbec, I'm not even that worried about him. He had kind of a shadow hot 3-week stretch, from about 4/5 to 4/27 or so - that's when his xwOBA was way higher than his wOBA, and despite that his offensive numbers were pretty good (127 wRC+ from April 7th to 27th). So we're just talking about a rough 5 games or so.
I still say the only real issue is that this team is short one outfielder. That's what's causing most of the team's problems: Renfroe having to face righties, Kiké and Marwin being used less flexibly than they should (as manfred pointed out), having a couple dead spots in the bottom of the order every night. It just seems bonkers that that last roster spot is going to a terrible and/or unused bullpen arm.
A lefty OFer would be ideal, but even Yairo Munoz would surely be more useful to this team than Austin Brice, no? Are they just gonna white-knuckle it until Santana is healthy? Until Duran is ready? Why?
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