SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 13, 2021 14:11:53 GMT -5
MLB has the understandable goal of wanting every incentive to align with players getting vaccinated.
That Bazardo relief appearance is going to look really fishy if Pivetta makes his start on time. You can argue that MLB should have designed the system so this kind of abuse isn't possible. But, it's also not that big a deal if there are some rogue relief appearances made on the way to everyone getting vaccinated.
It is kind of revealing about the character of the Red Sox. I don't mean that in a negative way - I am totally fine with them relentlessly pushing competitive edges.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on May 13, 2021 14:14:25 GMT -5
MLB has the understandable goal of wanting every incentive to align with players getting vaccinated. That Bazardo relief appearance is going to look really fishy if Pivetta makes his start on time. You can argue that MLB should have designed the system so this kind of abuse isn't possible. But, it's also not that big a deal if there are some rogue relief appearances made on the way to everyone getting vaccinated. It is kind of revealing about the character of the Red Sox. I don't mean that in a negative way - I am totally fine with them relentlessly pushing competitive edges. I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if there was monkey business, I definitely *would* hold it against them. It would be especially ugly given some of the history of playing fast and loose.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 13, 2021 14:31:48 GMT -5
MLB has the understandable goal of wanting every incentive to align with players getting vaccinated. That Bazardo relief appearance is going to look really fishy if Pivetta makes his start on time. You can argue that MLB should have designed the system so this kind of abuse isn't possible. But, it's also not that big a deal if there are some rogue relief appearances made on the way to everyone getting vaccinated. It is kind of revealing about the character of the Red Sox. I don't mean that in a negative way - I am totally fine with them relentlessly pushing competitive edges. I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if there was monkey business, I definitely *would* hold it against them. It would be especially ugly given some of the history of playing fast and loose. So what about if Pivetta really did feel lousy, but everyone was confident that his next start would be on time? That's a grey area that I can see different teams handling differently. I think I know how the Red Sox would handle it.
|
|
|
Post by Addam603 on May 13, 2021 14:50:39 GMT -5
I’d think they’d err on the side of caution with the way that teams are using the COVID IL. They don’t want to come down hard on a team for using it and have other teams reluctant to use it.
As for Pivetta’s specific situation, the vaccine reaction knocked me cold for 48 hours. Some people have bad reactions, some people have no reactions. Completely logical to put him on the list. He easily could have been out on Friday due to the vaccine. Now whether they had to put him on the list Wednesday as opposed to Thursday, that could be a different story.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on May 13, 2021 14:57:06 GMT -5
I give them the benefit of the doubt, but if there was monkey business, I definitely *would* hold it against them. It would be especially ugly given some of the history of playing fast and loose. So what about if Pivetta really did feel lousy, but everyone was confident that his next start would be on time? That's a grey area that I can see different teams handling differently. I think I know how the Red Sox would handle it. Reinstated. So basically, a 48-hour IL. Obviously the Sox merely followed the rules, but those rules might need to be tightened up.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on May 13, 2021 15:03:57 GMT -5
So what about if Pivetta really did feel lousy, but everyone was confident that his next start would be on time? That's a grey area that I can see different teams handling differently. I think I know how the Red Sox would handle it. Reinstated. So basically, a 48-hour IL. Obviously the Sox merely followed the rules, but those rules might need to be tightened up. If the downside here is just that a team might get one extra appearance from a reliever on their AAA roster, then it hardly seems worth losing sleep over. The incentive for guys to get vaccinated seems like the far more important consideration.
But by the same token (like I suggested above) I'd be in favor of getting rid of the covid IL altogether as soon as it's feasible. That would give teams even more incentive to get their players vaccinated.
|
|
|
Post by Soxfansince1971 on May 13, 2021 15:20:16 GMT -5
Seems sensible to allow teams to be flexible with the covid IL in the case of vaccine reactions; you want to incetivize the players to get vaccinated, and for teams to encourage them to do so. But once vaccinations are available to everyone who wants one (which ought to be approximately now, I'd think) shouldn't they get rid of the covid IL anyway? If, at that point, guys get covid or are unvaccinated and have to do a covid protocol thing, seems like that ought to be treated like any other kind of illness or injury. My two cents. You may be right that some rethinking is necessary, but it seems a bit premature to abandon the Covid IL in its entirety. We are not out of the woods yet, and, while there may need to be some tinkering with the system, let us not declare the pandemic over just yet. Ya, let’s keep covid going another 2-4 years even if no one new is getting the virus....
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 13, 2021 15:59:05 GMT -5
A) Multiple MLB teams have already done this. - Just to be clear that this isn't the Red Sox being the only team to use this loophole or something.
B) The point is almost certainly, as some have said, that MLB wants to be as flexible as possible so guys will get vaccinated.
C) That said, it is definitely silly that you can put a starter on IL for 24 hours in between starts and call up a reliever who you then use and send right back. It's just also really hard to police - like, it'd be completely legitimate to push a guy's start back a day and call up a spot starter, right?
I guess they could've said that a pitcher cannot be put on COVID IL less than 3 days after throwing X number of pitches or something, but they probably just figure this is a very limited time/scope loophole. It's not like you're going to have a team doing this in September during a pennant race.
|
|
|
Post by fanofredsox on May 13, 2021 16:26:03 GMT -5
A) Multiple MLB teams have already done this. - Just to be clear that this isn't the Red Sox being the only team to use this loophole or something. B) The point is almost certainly, as some have said, that MLB wants to be as flexible as possible so guys will get vaccinated. C) That said, it is definitely silly that you can put a starter on IL for 24 hours in between starts and call up a reliever who you then use and send right back. It's just also really hard to police - like, it'd be completely legitimate to push a guy's start back a day and call up a spot starter, right? I guess they could've said that a pitcher cannot be put on COVID IL less than 3 days after throwing X number of pitches or something, but they probably just figure this is a very limited time/scope loophole. It's not like you're going to have a team doing this in September during a pennant race.Hmmmm..........
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on May 13, 2021 21:11:40 GMT -5
Nd Whitlock it is....
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 15, 2021 12:06:54 GMT -5
Whitlock on the Covid IL after a vaccine, Colten Brewer up
Given Whitlock's usage, it's pretty much the same issue as with a starter
|
|
|
Post by tjb21 on May 19, 2021 12:15:01 GMT -5
Getting dangerously thin with SP depth.
Mata, Houck, Seabold and now Ward hurt too it seems.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 19, 2021 14:04:11 GMT -5
Don't know that Ward was realistically SP depth right now, but he could've worked his way in there later in the year.
Andriese 64 pitches last night and Whitlock has 5 days' rest since throwing 52. Does seem like they're stretching both back out.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,976
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on May 19, 2021 15:51:17 GMT -5
And this is why you stockpile as many arms as possible, even the Gossett’s of the world can impact your team
|
|
|
Post by carmenfanzone on May 20, 2021 14:32:11 GMT -5
Wonder what happens the year when Sale comes back if he is healthy enough to take a regular turn in the rotation and none of the current string 5 get hurt. Wonder which of the current starting 5 is not back starting next year when Sale should definitely be ready. At the beginning of the year I would have said Perez or Richards, but now I am not so sure.
Later this year I suppose you could use Evoaldi in relief like they did in the playoffs a couple of years back. While Evoaldi has a world of potential he just never seems to put it all together for a long period of time. The way Richards is pitching at present, he seems like a better bet as a consistent starter than Evoaldi.
I suppose by the time Sale is ready or next year roles around things will be clearer and the decision may be obvious due to injury or performance but it is not so clear right now. I also do not think it is a given that Whitlock is going to be one of the starters new year. He seems to be coming back to earth a little.
IN any event, I am grateful they seem to have better options than they did this time last year.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 20, 2021 16:42:30 GMT -5
Wonder what happens the year when Sale comes back if he is healthy enough to take a regular turn in the rotation and none of the current string 5 get hurt. Wonder which of the current starting 5 is not back starting next year when Sale should definitely be ready. At the beginning of the year I would have said Perez or Richards, but now I am not so sure. Later this year I suppose you could use Evoaldi in relief like they did in the playoffs a couple of years back. While Evoaldi has a world of potential he just never seems to put it all together for a long period of time. The way Richards is pitching at present, he seems like a better bet as a consistent starter than Evoaldi. I suppose by the time Sale is ready or next year roles around things will be clearer and the decision may be obvious due to injury or performance but it is not so clear right now. I also do not think it is a given that Whitlock is going to be one of the starters new year. He seems to be coming back to earth a little. IN any event, I am grateful they seem to have better options than they did this time last year. Obvious caveat of "that's still a long way off" aside, I think Perez would be the pretty clear guy to move to the bullpen if it were today. I could also seeing them giving each guy a turn off at that point too. As for next year, let's make sure they re-sign Rodriguez first. I also could see Bloom wheeling and dealing, moving guys for prospects and acquiring others, and both Richards and Perez could return decent value. There are a lot of moving parts, between what would seem like a pretty obvious JDM opt out, wanting to extend Devers, figuring out the back of the bullpen with both Barnes and Ottavino free agents, Bogaerts' pending opt out, etc.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on May 31, 2021 16:00:50 GMT -5
E-rod is either injured and should be on the IR or should no longer be in the rotation.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 30, 2021 21:02:39 GMT -5
I think my post may fit better here than the catch all trade deadline Thread. I can kind of see why Bloom did not go all in this year at the trade deadline.
Say Sale comes back and does not pitch well and the rest of the rotation continues to struggle ( ie Eduardo Rodriguez, Perez and Richards)
We would have needed to trade for 3 or 4 different SP by the trade deadline along with a 1B. And we have nowhere near the capital to do that.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,976
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Jul 30, 2021 21:04:00 GMT -5
Whoever gets bumped by Sale and Seabold are the rotation depth now
It ain’t bad necessarily
|
|
|
Post by lancect on Jul 30, 2021 21:17:27 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to seeing more Houck
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on Jul 30, 2021 21:27:48 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to seeing more Houck Me to. Reality is who could you add that would be in the top 4/5 that wouldn’t come at a big cost??? Sale Evo Houck Pivetta Erod We just need to survive the next 10 days.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 30, 2021 21:55:32 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to seeing more Houck Me to. Reality is who could you add that would be in the top 4/5 that wouldn’t come at a big cost??? Sale Evo Houck Pivetta Erod We just need to survive the next 10 days. I'd feel better about houck in the rotation instead of being a whitlock like bullpen force had the Sox improved their pen but they really didn't.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Aug 4, 2021 14:52:58 GMT -5
moving this here as well I mean Richards still gets paid regardless. Free agents primarily come for the money and the opportunity to play for a good franchise/manager is a secondary objective. I don’t think whether reclamation projects fail and get DFA-ed after giving them over 20 starts is a big consideration for future guys we’d want if one at all. but here is the thing, Richards was pitching fine until they fully enforced the sticky stuff (which they rarely ever did before) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON... If they were going to make this change they should have done it in the offseason, so players like him can adjust prior to the season and in spring training...
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Aug 4, 2021 15:58:29 GMT -5
moving this here as well I mean Richards still gets paid regardless. Free agents primarily come for the money and the opportunity to play for a good franchise/manager is a secondary objective. I don’t think whether reclamation projects fail and get DFA-ed after giving them over 20 starts is a big consideration for future guys we’d want if one at all. but here is the thing, Richards was pitching fine until they fully enforced the sticky stuff (which they rarely ever did before) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON... If they were going to make this change they should have done it in the offseason, so players like him can adjust prior to the season and in spring training... Are we really going to litigate this again?? MLB warned and warned and warned and nobody took them serious until they came down with the new rules. Everyone just ignored the warnings. This isn't kindergarten is it? Play by the rules just doesn't seem to resonate in America these days, it is more like do what ever the f$$k you want and deal with the fallout later. So tired of it, their are rules for a reason and one of the biggest reasons is that people will do what ever it takes to succeed, fairly or not!!
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,492
Member is Online
|
Post by shagworthy on Aug 4, 2021 16:12:18 GMT -5
moving this here as well but here is the thing, Richards was pitching fine until they fully enforced the sticky stuff (which they rarely ever did before) IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON... If they were going to make this change they should have done it in the offseason, so players like him can adjust prior to the season and in spring training... Are we really going to litigate this again?? MLB warned and warned and warned and nobody took them serious until they came down with the new rules. Everyone just ignored the warnings. This isn't kindergarten is it? Play by the rules just doesn't seem to resonate in America these days, it is more like do what ever the f$$k you want and deal with the fallout later. So tired of it, their are rules for a reason and one of the biggest reasons is that people will do what ever it takes to succeed, fairly or not!! The only way it could even be considered unfair was if MLB singled out Richards while allowing others to continue to use grip enhancers. They didn't. They made the decision unilaterally. For what it's worth, my two cents is that it's all between Richard's ears. He has enough movement and enough arm to win at the major league level, he just has it in his mind that he can't compete without the sticky. You pair lack of confidence with a rabid fanbase who demands performance, and contrition when you fail to perform and you get an ugly cocktail. Not saying this to advocate rampant sticky use and ignoring of rules, but I really don't think on the whole the ban has done anything other than ostracize pitchers vs. batters. There is still a ton of swing and miss in the current game which I detest. The league/players are going to have to find a way to encourage more than the 3 true outcomes or the product will continue to be stale, and only appeal to old farts like myself who grew up on it.
|
|
|