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5/31/-6/3 Red Sox @ Astros Series Thread
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Jun 2, 2021 22:15:20 GMT -5
Damp squib offense. Dud. Yuck. What will wake up the bats? When they get away from the Spin Doctors in Houston
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Post by cheers on Jun 2, 2021 22:21:13 GMT -5
Pressly pretty nasty. Who says the Sox can’t develop pitchers? grrrr.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2021 22:43:08 GMT -5
Damp squib offense. Dud. Yuck. What will wake up the bats? When they get away from the Spin Doctors in Houston But LA, San Diego and Texas had few issues with the spin doctors. Our hitters seem particularly prone to vanishing for long spells - no matter what the pitching type
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 2, 2021 22:50:46 GMT -5
Pressly pretty nasty. Who says the Sox can’t develop pitchers? They just did not know when to protect them in the rule 5 draft... .....Minnesota took Pressly a long, long time ago. Bloom has a lot more attention to detail than prior FOs, and he has a much better eye for talent.... and when Henry eventually lets him spend $$$, then the Red Sox will not be full of Marwin, Santana, Kiki types.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 2, 2021 23:07:27 GMT -5
Pressly pretty nasty. Who says the Sox can’t develop pitchers? They just do not know when to protect them in the rule 5 draft... I'm all for being critical of the 2012 Red Sox, but I have no clue what Minnesota saw in him at the time to take him. His stats with us weren't great, and he spent all but 6 weeks of 2012 in High A with a 6.41 ERA and 1.45 WHIP. He did have an 18/1 K/BB in the AFL but also had a 1.36 WHIP and gave up 2 HRs per 9 innings. I just don't know how they thought he'd be a major leaguer in 2013. Maybe he was filthy in a few games against New Britain and wanted to give him a shot in Spring Training? To be fair, we protected Christian Vazquez, Alex Wilson, and Steven Wright in that same year.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 2, 2021 23:10:47 GMT -5
They just do not know when to protect them in the rule 5 draft... I'm all for being critical of the 2012 Red Sox, but I have no clue what Minnesota saw in him at the time to take him. His stats with us weren't great, and he spent all but 6 weeks of 2012 in High A with a 6.41 ERA and 1.45 WHIP. He did have an 18/1 K/BB in the AFL but also had a 1.36 WHIP and gave up 2 HRs per 9 innings. I just don't know how they thought he'd be a major leaguer in 2013. Maybe he was filthy in a few games against New Britain and wanted to give him a shot in Spring Training? To be fair, we protected Christian Vazquez, Alex Wilson, and Steven Wright in that same year. Yes....you cannot protect everyone. A small sample of this fall’s Rule 5 eligible: Jeter Downs #2 Karen Duran #3 Josh Winckowski #24 Thaddeus Ward #7 Kaleb Ort Gilberto Jimenez #4 Durbin Feltman #28 Kutter Crawford Bryan Bello #9
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 2, 2021 23:11:02 GMT -5
Another frustrating loss. They might just get swept 4 in a row by Houston who hasn't really had their A lineup intact for this series.
Meanwhile the Sox lineup is just plain lethargic. Way too many whiffs. They're last in the league in walks drawn. And when that middle of the order gets shut down, there is no offense to be had. Only Renfroe, surprisingly enough, has looked really good. Everybody else is slumping.
What stinks is they could lose 6 of 7 - I don't think NY will be any picnic either, even with the Yankees' problems - the Sox could fall about 4 or 5 games out of first and potentially out of both wild card spots. All it takes is one bad week and it's shaping up to be that way. This is the area where the schedule gets really tough and the Sox aren't handling it very well.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 2, 2021 23:27:13 GMT -5
Another frustrating loss. They might just get swept 4 in a row by Houston who hasn't really had their A lineup intact for this series. Meanwhile the Sox lineup is just plain lethargic. Way too many whiffs. They're last in the league in walks drawn. And when that middle of the order gets shut down, there is no offense to be had. Only Renfroe, surprisingly enough, has looked really good. Everybody else is slumping. What stinks is they could lose 6 of 7 - I don't think NY will be any picnic either, even with the Yankees' problems - the Sox could fall about 4 or 5 games out of first and potentially out of both wild card spots. All it takes is one bad week and it's shaping up to be that way. This is the area where the schedule gets really tough and the Sox aren't handling it very well. Listening to Cora's post game, he sounded frustrated that the hitters aren't staying with the approach he wants - using the whole field - indicates they are pull happy and making life easier for opposing pitchers. Is that something the hitting coach is supposed to drive home?
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Post by tomhouse on Jun 2, 2021 23:37:37 GMT -5
Damp squib offense. Dud. Yuck. What will wake up the bats? Jobu.
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Post by tookme55 on Jun 3, 2021 6:08:21 GMT -5
Just what you want in your leadoff hitter. I think he leads the league in intangibles though. Best line I've heard in weeks... Cora declared to the world Kiké was his leadoff guy despite not having leadoff at all previously, oh wait, that's because he was a utility player for the Dodgers. Now Cora will not move Kiké down in batting order even though he's hurting the team by not doing so. Did Cora ever ask Kiké if Kiké was comfortable leading off?
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Post by manfred on Jun 3, 2021 9:02:11 GMT -5
I get that Kiké is not a good leadoff guy, but honestly, what can Cora do? He has what he has. Arroyo? No better. Verdugo? Maybe. But that weakens the two spot, and it isn’t like Verdugo is playing like an all star (last 30 games .259/.319/.394).
Basically, they don’t *have* a “leadoff” guy. Someone just has to bat first.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 3, 2021 9:03:47 GMT -5
Another frustrating loss. They might just get swept 4 in a row by Houston who hasn't really had their A lineup intact for this series. Meanwhile the Sox lineup is just plain lethargic. Way too many whiffs. They're last in the league in walks drawn. And when that middle of the order gets shut down, there is no offense to be had. Only Renfroe, surprisingly enough, has looked really good. Everybody else is slumping. What stinks is they could lose 6 of 7 - I don't think NY will be any picnic either, even with the Yankees' problems - the Sox could fall about 4 or 5 games out of first and potentially out of both wild card spots. All it takes is one bad week and it's shaping up to be that way. This is the area where the schedule gets really tough and the Sox aren't handling it very well. Listening to Cora's post game, he sounded frustrated that the hitters aren't staying with the approach he wants - using the whole field - indicates they are pull happy and making life easier for opposing pitchers. Is that something the hitting coach is supposed to drive home? Makes sense. I think he was happier with what he saw at the beginning of the year, players putting the ball in play while everybody else was striking out a ton. Somewhere along the line the Sox started hitting more homers and started to rise toward the top of the league in homers, but along side it came a ton of strikeouts and a weird refusal to draw walks. And it's starting to get exploited by good/smart teams. And to echo almost everybody else, Kiké batting leadoff is an idea Cora needs to move away from. It doesn't work. You have a free swinging sub .300 OBP guy leading off. To be fair when Kiké is hot, his OBP and OPS+ rises toward league average and then a slump ensues and his figures fall well below, and this is the guy who gets the most plate appearances by virtue of leading off. I'm sure Duran will have his issues as well when he comes up. I don't expect Ellsbury circa 2007, but I do think he can be an improvement on Hernandez. Otherwise, the refusal to lead off with Verdugo, I really don't understand. Unless Verdugo is telling Cora he's afraid to lead off, and I highly doubt that - he did a good job leading off last season, then I don't understand the decision making here. Of course that doesn't solve the other issue even if you do have your four best hitters occupying 1 - 4 and that's the legnth of the lineup. Only Renfroe has been hitting and I think it's starting to get him toward league average although I think he's still below due to his poor BB/K ratio. Hernandez can rise to average. We're waiting for Vazquez to get near league average. 1b is a black hole right now. Santana is their best bet, but he's giving them a lot of what they already have, poor K/BB ratio swinging for the fences. And Gonzalez has to stop playing. Way too much Marwin Gonzalez. They'll need Duran in CF to move Hernandez to 2b (under the crazy and probably wrong assumption that Renfroe continues to play well in an everyday role) where Hernandez's mediocrity is better than what they currently have there as Marwin is unplayable and Arroyo doesn't look the same. I don't know if it's a case of him returning to career norms or simply that he hasn't been the same since he got his thumb hit - and that could be a valid reason, but either way the production isn't there. Other than Duran coming up and perhaps providing a jumpstart I'm not sure what they do to change the direction their offense has been going in. At some point their refusal to draw walks (last in the league!!) is going to bite them in the butt, if it isn't already.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 3, 2021 9:11:50 GMT -5
Best line I've heard in weeks... Cora declared to the world Kiké was his leadoff guy despite not having leadoff at all previously, oh wait, that's because he was a utility player for the Dodgers.à Now Cora will not move Kiké down in batting order even though he's hurting the team by not doing so. Did Cora ever ask Kiké if Kiké was comfortable leading off? The favoritism with Kiké is getting ridiculous. Chavis was sent down to AAA with an OPS about 100 points higher than what Kiké has right now. I know there aren't many great alternatives and several players are struggling, but he just can't be the leadoff guy anymore. I was as critical as anyone of Kiké batting leadoff (against righties), but if they're determined not to bat Verdugo first there's really no one else. For a while I preferred Marwin, but I'm not sure he's even a major league hitter anymore.
Of course we still have ericmvan's theory that Kiké might have a special psychoneurological ability to lead off the game that the team was sure it could unlock (a classic of the ericmvan "One Weird Trick" genre), but a third of the way through the season he's hitting .289/.308/.395 with exactly one BB in that role so the evidence there is looking a little shaky.
By the way, wasn't there a thing where they wanted him to be more aggressive early in the count and that was going to transform him as a hitter? Well, he's hitting .167/.184/.194 when swinging at the first pitch.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 3, 2021 9:14:05 GMT -5
I just hate it when they get a pitcher on the ropes early and don't take advantage of it then just watch him shut them down the rest of the way. Why does that happen so often?
Another great performance by Pivetta though.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 3, 2021 9:20:27 GMT -5
And while we're all grumbling, here's my complaint du jour: I really think they ought to commit 100% to Dalbec at least through the middle of the season. He's shown he can go on a tear - as recently as 5/7-5/22 he had a 179 wRC+ stretch - but if they start sitting him in half the team's games I worry he'll have a harder time getting locked in.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 3, 2021 9:56:12 GMT -5
If Casas was a year older destroying baseballs in AAA
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Post by fanofredsox on Jun 3, 2021 10:28:02 GMT -5
And while we're all grumbling, here's my complaint du jour: I really think they ought to commit 100% to Dalbec at least through the middle of the season. He's shown he can go on a tear - as recently as 5/7-5/22 he had a 179 wRC+ stretch - but if they start sitting him in half the team's games I worry he'll have a harder time getting locked in. I agree. Play him consistently or send him down to do the same. Playing him part time just hurts I think. Look what playing consistently has done for Renfroe.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 3, 2021 10:59:14 GMT -5
Well I am happy. Welcome back Workman. See ya Brewer.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 3, 2021 11:02:32 GMT -5
On the bright side, the game yesterday was so excruciating to watch/listen to that the outcome didn't matter as much. If you're going to lose make sure it's as long and boring as possible.
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Post by joshuacoffee on Jun 3, 2021 11:17:20 GMT -5
It is ridiculous that first base is the offensive black hole that it is. In fairness, coming into the season expectations were pretty low for this team, so maybe they just figured if there were no playoffs coming for this team they could just let Dalbec sink or swim to see if maybe he might prove to be able to hit just enough to let his power play. But now we are in a different place. The Sox are pleasantly in a playoff chase.
Dalbec isn't hitting. Of first basemen with at least 90 ABs, he's 33rd in OPS. It's so bad that he got pitch hit for with Danny Santana, who is hitting below the Mendoza line. If you're going to give up on the season, by all means, keep trotting Bobby Dalbec out there to see if he can maybe figure something out and isn't just a worse version of Michael Chavis. It seems like the worst solution is to keep Dalbec on the big league roster and not keep him playing. If he's not playing, he's probably not getting better and if the alternative is Danny Santana (or Marwin Gonzalez), its not like that is a notable upgrade.
If you want to see if you can compete this season, go find a first baseman who is going to hit .220 with 25 HR power, because that would be a sizable upgrade over what they are getting at first base right now, and should be relatively cheap to get. Might even be able to find someone who could hit .240.
The idea that they don't have to address the issue of first base because they have been winning now is crazy. Teams looking to win in the post season make moves during the season not in spite of the fact that they are playing well, but because of it.
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Post by unitspin on Jun 3, 2021 13:05:42 GMT -5
It is ridiculous that first base is the offensive black hole that it is. In fairness, coming into the season expectations were pretty low for this team, so maybe they just figured if there were no playoffs coming for this team they could just let Dalbec sink or swim to see if maybe he might prove to be able to hit just enough to let his power play. But now we are in a different place. The Sox are pleasantly in a playoff chase. Dalbec isn't hitting. Of first basemen with at least 90 ABs, he's 33rd in OPS. It's so bad that he got pitch hit for with Danny Santana, who is hitting below the Mendoza line. If you're going to give up on the season, by all means, keep trotting Bobby Dalbec out there to see if he can maybe figure something out and isn't just a worse version of Michael Chavis. It seems like the worst solution is to keep Dalbec on the big league roster and not keep him playing. If he's not playing, he's probably not getting better and if the alternative is Danny Santana (or Marwin Gonzalez), its not like that is a notable upgrade. If you want to see if you can compete this season, go find a first baseman who is going to hit .220 with 25 HR power, because that would be a sizable upgrade over what they are getting at first base right now, and should be relatively cheap to get. Might even be able to find someone who could hit .240. The idea that they don't have to address the issue of first base because they have been winning now is crazy. Teams looking to win in the post season make moves during the season not in spite of the fact that they are playing well, but because of it. Did you ever consider that bloom might think they don't have the ponies this year to chase a ring by giving up future assets.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Jun 3, 2021 13:32:19 GMT -5
What a dumb play why steal third with two outs? What sense does that make?
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Post by dangermike on Jun 3, 2021 13:40:59 GMT -5
It is ridiculous that first base is the offensive black hole that it is. In fairness, coming into the season expectations were pretty low for this team, so maybe they just figured if there were no playoffs coming for this team they could just let Dalbec sink or swim to see if maybe he might prove to be able to hit just enough to let his power play. But now we are in a different place. The Sox are pleasantly in a playoff chase. Dalbec isn't hitting. Of first basemen with at least 90 ABs, he's 33rd in OPS. It's so bad that he got pitch hit for with Danny Santana, who is hitting below the Mendoza line. If you're going to give up on the season, by all means, keep trotting Bobby Dalbec out there to see if he can maybe figure something out and isn't just a worse version of Michael Chavis. It seems like the worst solution is to keep Dalbec on the big league roster and not keep him playing. If he's not playing, he's probably not getting better and if the alternative is Danny Santana (or Marwin Gonzalez), its not like that is a notable upgrade. If you want to see if you can compete this season, go find a first baseman who is going to hit .220 with 25 HR power, because that would be a sizable upgrade over what they are getting at first base right now, and should be relatively cheap to get. Might even be able to find someone who could hit .240. The idea that they don't have to address the issue of first base because they have been winning now is crazy. Teams looking to win in the post season make moves during the season not in spite of the fact that they are playing well, but because of it. Did you ever consider that bloom might think they don't have the ponies this year to chase a ring by giving up future assets. or that this is the part of the season where we have to prove that we should spend money or assets to push for a world series run. call it sink or swim if you want but this is the part of the season where we see if we're legit and if we're not, its not a huge deal. lets develop, get healthy, gather assets, and we will have a new fancy ring in a couple years. everyone chill.
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Post by jkfer98 on Jun 3, 2021 13:43:19 GMT -5
Boy did we need that. Arroyo continues to be solid!
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Post by manfred on Jun 3, 2021 13:43:53 GMT -5
I’d say not signing Odorizzi was a good move.
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