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Post by baseball3 on Dec 3, 2021 19:57:48 GMT -5
Also not forget about; Connor Seabold Josh Winckowski Kutter Crawford And a possible surprise, Jay Groome Brayan Bello All can be called up to start some games Groome isn't going to be called up. He needs to build innings and go through the process of developing. He's had one full year in the minors. That's not a lot of time.
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Post by manfred on Dec 3, 2021 20:07:46 GMT -5
Also not forget about; Connor Seabold Josh Winckowski Kutter Crawford And a possible surprise, Jay Groome Brayan Bello All can be called up to start some games I can be called up to start a game. I’m not counting on those guys for strong innings. I worry Seabold might be Henry Owens 2.0 Add: to be clear, I like some of these guys a lot. Just not in 2022. I’m still huge on Groome. I think Bello can be very good in some capacity, and Kuttrr and Wink could be very good from the pen. But I don’t think they’ll be much factor next year.
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Post by baseball3 on Dec 12, 2021 22:35:13 GMT -5
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Post by baseball3 on Dec 13, 2021 14:39:57 GMT -5
Rodon would probably fit with the mold of Bloom's one year plus option deals.
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Post by manfred on Dec 13, 2021 14:43:43 GMT -5
Rodon might work really well with Paxton. Rodon is very good, but he is a risk over the full season. Maybe these two flip places when Pacton comes back (yes, I’m assuming Rodon can’t last the full year healthy).
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 13, 2021 15:07:35 GMT -5
Rodon would probably fit with the mold of Bloom's one year plus option deals. Yep. They're going to need another starter but I'd rather see someone more durable than Rodón.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2021 16:02:37 GMT -5
I think that unless they miss out on both Schwarber and Suzuki (and they aren't going after Bryant or Castellano) and they sign a cheaper OF, they're not going to spend the big bucks on Rodon.
I can see Rodon getting a deal similar to Stroman, but maybe for 2 years instead of 3.
I can't see the Sox spending $15 - $20 million per year on Suzuki or Schwarber and then tacking on 20 million or so for Rodon and then having to spend another 10 million or so on 2 high leverage relievers.
I'd really like to see the Sox get Rodon as he is the guy who most likely would be successful replacing E-Rod as their #3 starter (if healthy, of course), but I suspect he'll go elsewhere. Given his injury history, he's the kind of guy the Yankees would go after. The way Texas is spending money, they might even go after him. Either them or the Dodgers depending upon which one misses out on Kershaw.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 13, 2021 16:21:50 GMT -5
I think that unless they miss out on both Schwarber and Suzuki (and they aren't going after Bryant or Castellano) and they sign a cheaper OF, they're not going to spend the big bucks on Rodon. I can see Rodon getting a deal similar to Stroman, but maybe for 2 years instead of 3.I can't see the Sox spending $15 - $20 million per year on Suzuki or Schwarber and then tacking on 20 million or so for Rodon and then having to spend another 10 million or so on 2 high leverage relievers. I'd really like to see the Sox get Rodon as he is the guy who most likely would be successful replacing E-Rod as their #3 starter (if healthy, of course), but I suspect he'll go elsewhere. Given his injury history, he's the kind of guy the Yankees would go after. The way Texas is spending money, they might even go after him. Either them or the Dodgers depending upon which one misses out on Kershaw. Rodon didn't even get a QO from the White Sox, so either he'll be a lot cheaper than you're predicting or the White Sox really screwed up.
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Post by manfred on Dec 13, 2021 16:26:23 GMT -5
I think that unless they miss out on both Schwarber and Suzuki (and they aren't going after Bryant or Castellano) and they sign a cheaper OF, they're not going to spend the big bucks on Rodon. I can see Rodon getting a deal similar to Stroman, but maybe for 2 years instead of 3.I can't see the Sox spending $15 - $20 million per year on Suzuki or Schwarber and then tacking on 20 million or so for Rodon and then having to spend another 10 million or so on 2 high leverage relievers. I'd really like to see the Sox get Rodon as he is the guy who most likely would be successful replacing E-Rod as their #3 starter (if healthy, of course), but I suspect he'll go elsewhere. Given his injury history, he's the kind of guy the Yankees would go after. The way Texas is spending money, they might even go after him. Either them or the Dodgers depending upon which one misses out on Kershaw. Rodon didn't even get a QO from the White Sox, so either he'll be a lot cheaper than you're predicting or the White Sox really screwed up. I’m terrible at predicting contracts, but Rodon seems much closer to mid-teens millions. $20 million is way high. He had a great part year last year, but it was his first ever ERA+ under 105. Or… put differently… he’s got a lot to prove. I could imagine a 1/$15 million, may $17 million? Not sure. But it seems like a plausible risk, at least at $15. If gives you 2/3 of a season almost as good as last year, it is gangbusters.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 13, 2021 16:32:47 GMT -5
Theoretically with the depth of options to start for the Sox this year rodon for 15-20 mil for a year would be a great risk to take since they could try and give him some time off if/when he starts to break down to try and get him to the post season healthy. Obviously a big giant if but a healthy sale/eovaldi/rodon in the playoffs would be a very tough trio to top. That being said unless the sox plan to smash through the luxury tax by 50+ million it doesn't seem likely to me.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2021 17:17:41 GMT -5
I think that unless they miss out on both Schwarber and Suzuki (and they aren't going after Bryant or Castellano) and they sign a cheaper OF, they're not going to spend the big bucks on Rodon. I can see Rodon getting a deal similar to Stroman, but maybe for 2 years instead of 3.I can't see the Sox spending $15 - $20 million per year on Suzuki or Schwarber and then tacking on 20 million or so for Rodon and then having to spend another 10 million or so on 2 high leverage relievers. I'd really like to see the Sox get Rodon as he is the guy who most likely would be successful replacing E-Rod as their #3 starter (if healthy, of course), but I suspect he'll go elsewhere. Given his injury history, he's the kind of guy the Yankees would go after. The way Texas is spending money, they might even go after him. Either them or the Dodgers depending upon which one misses out on Kershaw. Rodon didn't even get a QO from the White Sox, so either he'll be a lot cheaper than you're predicting or the White Sox really screwed up. Look at it this way. If it were one year for Rodon, you'd have a bunch of teams bidding for him. What's the separator? A second year, of course. I mean, based on the year he had, you know there's probably about 15 teams that would love to pay him 1 year at 15 million. So some team(s) is going to have to give a second year and some team(s) is going to raise his annual rate and some team might do a combo and offer something like 2 years 40 million, perhaps with an option should he reach 320 innings or something like that. It's possible the White Sox screwed up and underestimated his worth....or they know he's a ticking timebomb and if he is, then he'll struggle to pass the medicals for whoever signs him...and there goes his market. It's possible the White Sox are right to pass on signing him (but screwed up not offering the QO) and some team gives him 2 years 40 million or so and regrets it. I'd be surprised if it's only 1 year 10 - 15 million. Can't imagine only that only two or three teams are interested in him and that nobody would be willing to tack on the extra year and/or extra millions to sign him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 13, 2021 19:26:57 GMT -5
RE: Rodon, MLBTR predicted 1/25, Ben Clemons 3/45, FG median 4/76
In other words, who tf knows?
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Post by notstarboard on Dec 13, 2021 21:18:53 GMT -5
I'm intrigued about the Rodon idea and I agree a proper Erod replacement would be nice, but I also wouldn't be worried to start the year with our current group of SPs. When the lockout ends, I'm hoping we sign Suzuki, Iglesias, and a couple of pitchers. I'd say we need relievers more than starters, but adding starters would also net us relievers, so anything works if the price is right.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2021 21:52:11 GMT -5
Maybe Kershaw instead of Rodon.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 13, 2021 21:52:47 GMT -5
I think the Pale Hose didn't want him to accept a guaranteed 1 yr/$18.5m contract. They've already got Lynn, Giolito, Cease, and Desist ... jk, and Keuchel, and they may want to stretch Kopech out as a starter to begin the season. Giving Rodon, who's obviously difficult to plan around, a chance to insert himself into their rotation at $18.5m may have just been too much for their FO to try. Would he take a 1-year plus vesting option based on whether he's on the DL at the end of the year?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Dec 13, 2021 21:53:39 GMT -5
Maybe Kershaw instead of Rodon. Word is Kershaw is either re-signing with LA or going to TEX (he grew up in Dallas).
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Post by incandenza on Dec 13, 2021 22:21:27 GMT -5
I think the Pale Hose didn't want him to accept a guaranteed 1 yr/$18.5m contract. They've already got Lynn, Giolito, Cease, and Desist ... jk, and Keuchel, and they may want to stretch Kopech out as a starter to begin the season. Giving Rodon, who's obviously difficult to plan around, a chance to insert himself into their rotation at $18.5m may have just been too much for their FO to try. Would he take a 1-year plus vesting option based on whether he's on the DL at the end of the year? Even if they felt that way, it was still dumb of them to not offer the QO if there are teams out there that would take him at that price; even if he accepts the QO they can trade him (at which point, without the loss of the draft pick for the signing team, he'd be even more valuable).
But I do think it's legitimately possible that the market for him is a lot weaker than people are projecting and he signs for like 1/10 or something. And part of why I think that is that's the only scenario where he White Sox not offering the QO makes sense.
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Post by kman22 on Dec 14, 2021 2:07:04 GMT -5
I think the Pale Hose didn't want him to accept a guaranteed 1 yr/$18.5m contract. They've already got Lynn, Giolito, Cease, and Desist ... jk, and Keuchel, and they may want to stretch Kopech out as a starter to begin the season. Giving Rodon, who's obviously difficult to plan around, a chance to insert himself into their rotation at $18.5m may have just been too much for their FO to try. Would he take a 1-year plus vesting option based on whether he's on the DL at the end of the year? Even if they felt that way, it was still dumb of them to not offer the QO if there are teams out there that would take him at that price; even if he accepts the QO they can trade him (at which point, without the loss of the draft pick for the signing team, he'd be even more valuable).
But I do think it's legitimately possible that the market for him is a lot weaker than people are projecting and he signs for like 1/10 or something. And part of why I think that is that's the only scenario where he White Sox not offering the QO makes sense.
In the scenario he accepted and they traded him, the signing/acquiring team has to trade assets, which may be more prohibitive than the draft pick.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 14, 2021 9:43:37 GMT -5
Even if they felt that way, it was still dumb of them to not offer the QO if there are teams out there that would take him at that price; even if he accepts the QO they can trade him (at which point, without the loss of the draft pick for the signing team, he'd be even more valuable).
But I do think it's legitimately possible that the market for him is a lot weaker than people are projecting and he signs for like 1/10 or something. And part of why I think that is that's the only scenario where he White Sox not offering the QO makes sense.
In the scenario he accepted and they traded him, the signing/acquiring team has to trade assets, which may be more prohibitive than the draft pick. It could be the ol' "PTBNL or cash considerations." Even if it's a nothing of a trade return, the White Sox could've still gambled to try to pick up the draft pick and if he accepted the QO they could trade him for a song.
Unleeeeess his market is real weak and no one would even want to trade for him so the White Sox (who have a cheap/greedy owner IIRC) would have to eat part of his salary just to trade him.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 14, 2021 12:11:34 GMT -5
Kinda feels like there's not much to talk about with regards to Rodon unless we have an injury expert that has looked at the imaging on his arm.
The White Sox look like one of the dumbest teams in the league to me, but it's still pretty scary that they didn't give him the QO.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 14, 2021 12:25:30 GMT -5
Kinda feels like there's not much to talk about with regards to Rodon unless we have an injury expert that has looked at the imaging on his arm. The White Sox look like one of the dumbest teams in the league to me, but it's still pretty scary that they didn't give him the QO. Yeah, and I don't really see how anyone can even have an opinion, really, on whether they should sign him. Like, maybe he can be signed for 1/10, but if he is I think it'd be fair to assume his arm is being held together with scotch tape and gumption, in which case... maybe you could hope they get 10 starts out of him?
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Post by manfred on Dec 14, 2021 12:37:33 GMT -5
Kinda feels like there's not much to talk about with regards to Rodon unless we have an injury expert that has looked at the imaging on his arm. The White Sox look like one of the dumbest teams in the league to me, but it's still pretty scary that they didn't give him the QO. Yeah, and I don't really see how anyone can even have an opinion, really, on whether they should sign him. Like, maybe he can be signed for 1/10, but if he is I think it'd be fair to assume his arm is being held together with scotch tape and gumption, in which case... maybe you could hope they get 10 starts out of him? This is fair. I guess, for my part, any signing is always predicated on a positive medical. The lack of QO is odd, but there might be all kinds of reasons. I’m certainly not married to Rodon, but… it is a bit odd to be in on Hill, age 42, Paxton, already hurt, but shy from a guy who was actually really good last year and might be entering his prime. I’d rather have Rodon than Paxton.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 14, 2021 12:47:16 GMT -5
Yeah, and I don't really see how anyone can even have an opinion, really, on whether they should sign him. Like, maybe he can be signed for 1/10, but if he is I think it'd be fair to assume his arm is being held together with scotch tape and gumption, in which case... maybe you could hope they get 10 starts out of him? This is fair. I guess, for my part, any signing is always predicated on a positive medical. The lack of QO is odd, but there might be all kinds of reasons. I’m certainly not married to Rodon, but… it is a bit odd to be in on Hill, age 42, Paxton, already hurt, but shy from a guy who was actually really good last year and might be entering his prime. I’d rather have Rodon than Paxton. The Yankees are in on Rodon. With his injury track record I can easily see them signing Rodon. I do hope it's the Red Sox, but I suspect Bloom will spend his remaining money elsewhere (RF, bullpen).
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Post by manfred on Dec 14, 2021 12:56:47 GMT -5
This is fair. I guess, for my part, any signing is always predicated on a positive medical. The lack of QO is odd, but there might be all kinds of reasons. I’m certainly not married to Rodon, but… it is a bit odd to be in on Hill, age 42, Paxton, already hurt, but shy from a guy who was actually really good last year and might be entering his prime. I’d rather have Rodon than Paxton. The Yankees are in on Rodon. With his injury track record I can easily see them signing Rodon. I do hope it's the Red Sox, but I suspect Bloom will spend his remaining money elsewhere (RF, bullpen). I’ve come to ignore reports that the Sox or Yankees are “in” on a FA. They both probably kick all tires, and it never hurts a client for an agent to let reporters know they had an exchange — however brief — with those teams.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 14, 2021 13:02:57 GMT -5
The Yankees are in on Rodon. With his injury track record I can easily see them signing Rodon. I do hope it's the Red Sox, but I suspect Bloom will spend his remaining money elsewhere (RF, bullpen). I’ve come to ignore reports that the Sox or Yankees are “in” on a FA. They both probably kick all tires, and it never hurts a client for an agent to let reporters know they had an exchange — however brief — with those teams. Rodon's wife is being vague coy about it on Twitter. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-white-sox-pitcher-carlos-rodons-wife-comments-on-yankees-interest/ar-AARLVjh?ocid=uxbndlbingIt just tells me the Yankees are interested. Unless it's dirt cheap to sign him (and to be so it would be after a team signs him and he flunks the physical) I don't see the Sox prioritizing him over their other more pressing needs (although if he's reasonably healthy, I'd love to see the Sox get Rodon). The Yankees lost Kluber and didn't replace him, so Rodon, as a lefty, would make a lot of sense for them, so I can see the Yankees rolling the dice there.
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