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Post by theburn on Jul 29, 2022 12:29:42 GMT -5
What's tripping me up about the idea of a Bogaerts extension is the Story signing. Was the FO's idea of signing Story really to push Bogaerts to third/Raffy to DH post 2022? Or, were Bogaerts/Boras really asking for so much in a new contract the FO was persuaded into signing Story for Bogey insurance? Both? I can't see Bloom retaining all of Story, Bogaerts, and Devers and if I had to keep one of Xander and Raffy, it's definitely Raffy.
Finally, Story's offensive issues this year are also bugging me. If Bloom really was betting that Story would be a better long-term bet at short I don't really see it playing out that way based on what we've seen this year.
Thoughts? Somebody set me straight.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 29, 2022 13:17:15 GMT -5
What's tripping me up about the idea of a Bogaerts extension is the Story signing. Was the FO's idea of signing Story really to push Bogaerts to third/Raffy to DH post 2022? Or, were Bogaerts/Boras really asking for so much in a new contract the FO was persuaded into signing Story for Bogey insurance? Both? I can't see Bloom retaining all of Story, Bogaerts, and Devers and if I had to keep one of Xander and Raffy, it's definitely Raffy. Finally, Story's offensive issues this year are also bugging me. If Bloom really was betting that Story would be a better long-term bet at short I don't really see it playing out that way based on what we've seen this year. Thoughts? Somebody set me straight. I was sold it was to move him to SS next year or try to strong arm X into signing for cheaper to stay here but every time X was out Kiké or Arroyo played SS with Story at 2nd. Just like Duran in CF and Jackie in RF when hes clearly one of the best defensive CF in baseball. It seems like we’re set on Story at 2nd and Duran in CF. I wouldn’t mind a Devers -3rd Mayer - SS Story - 2nd X - 1st infield in 2 years. I think that’s the way pay him if he’s willing to move to 1st. I think X would be a great 1st baseman.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 29, 2022 15:45:08 GMT -5
What's tripping me up about the idea of a Bogaerts extension is the Story signing. Was the FO's idea of signing Story really to push Bogaerts to third/Raffy to DH post 2022? Or, were Bogaerts/Boras really asking for so much in a new contract the FO was persuaded into signing Story for Bogey insurance? Both? I can't see Bloom retaining all of Story, Bogaerts, and Devers and if I had to keep one of Xander and Raffy, it's definitely Raffy. Finally, Story's offensive issues this year are also bugging me. If Bloom really was betting that Story would be a better long-term bet at short I don't really see it playing out that way based on what we've seen this year. Thoughts? Somebody set me straight. I was sold it was to move him to SS next year or try to strong arm X into signing for cheaper to stay here but every time X was out Kiké or Arroyo played SS with Story at 2nd. Just like Duran in CF and Jackie in RF when hes clearly one of the best defensive CF in baseball. It seems like we’re set on Story at 2nd and Duran in CF. I wouldn’t mind a Devers -3rd Mayer - SS Story - 2nd X - 1st infield in 2 years. I think that’s the way pay him if he’s willing to move to 1st. I think X would be a great 1st baseman. Would seem kind of unnecessary to pay Xander the likely 5-6 year 25-30 mil to play first where he'd lose a lot of his value when they have Casas waiting in the wings to play first base for peanuts the next 4-5 seasons.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 29, 2022 15:52:57 GMT -5
I've always thought Xander in left could be fun if he can't play short, I have no idea if he would be capable or interested in ever playing the outfield, but I like the thought of him bringing back the Sox having a slugging-team-icon playing in front of the monster.
To be clear I don't think that will ever or should ever happen, but I like to think about it in the how could they possibly keep Devers, Bogaerts, Casas, Yorke, Mayer and Story scenario (in this hypothetical all of those guys pan out).
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 29, 2022 16:45:48 GMT -5
I was sold it was to move him to SS next year or try to strong arm X into signing for cheaper to stay here but every time X was out Kiké or Arroyo played SS with Story at 2nd. Just like Duran in CF and Jackie in RF when hes clearly one of the best defensive CF in baseball. It seems like we’re set on Story at 2nd and Duran in CF. I wouldn’t mind a Devers -3rd Mayer - SS Story - 2nd X - 1st infield in 2 years. I think that’s the way pay him if he’s willing to move to 1st. I think X would be a great 1st baseman. Would seem kind of unnecessary to pay Xander the likely 5-6 year 25-30 mil to play first where he'd lose a lot of his value when they have Casas waiting in the wings to play first base for peanuts the next 4-5 seasons. Mayer isn’t going to be ready for a few years. X can stay at SS. Casas at 1st then when Mayer is ready trade Story or Casas and move X to their spot or even DH 1 of them but defensively my original post would be a good defensive infield.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 29, 2022 16:49:06 GMT -5
Would seem kind of unnecessary to pay Xander the likely 5-6 year 25-30 mil to play first where he'd lose a lot of his value when they have Casas waiting in the wings to play first base for peanuts the next 4-5 seasons. Mayer isn’t going to be ready for a few years. X can stay at SS. Casas at 1st then when Mayer is ready trade Story or Casas and move X to their spot or even DH 1 of them but defensively my original post would be a good defensive infield. I'm a member of the sign Xander to a 6 year 180 mil deal if that'll get it done don't get me wrong. I guess I'd just try him in the OF before 1st so yea im really splitting hairs here. I guess I also am a gigantic Casas believer and want him at first starting next year foe the next 6+ years.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 29, 2022 17:07:19 GMT -5
Would seem kind of unnecessary to pay Xander the likely 5-6 year 25-30 mil to play first where he'd lose a lot of his value when they have Casas waiting in the wings to play first base for peanuts the next 4-5 seasons. Mayer isn’t going to be ready for a few years. X can stay at SS. Casas at 1st then when Mayer is ready trade Story or Casas and move X to their spot or even DH 1 of them but defensively my original post would be a good defensive infield. What a minute where ‘s Dalbec gonna play?
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 29, 2022 17:29:22 GMT -5
Mayer isn’t going to be ready for a few years. X can stay at SS. Casas at 1st then when Mayer is ready trade Story or Casas and move X to their spot or even DH 1 of them but defensively my original post would be a good defensive infield. What a minute where ‘s Dalbec gonna play? hopefully somewhere else lol
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 29, 2022 18:56:35 GMT -5
I've always thought Xander in left could be fun if he can't play short, I have no idea if he would be capable or interested in ever playing the outfield, but I like the thought of him bringing back the Sox having a slugging-team-icon playing in front of the monster. To be clear I don't think that will ever or should ever happen, but I like to think about it in the how could they possibly keep Devers, Bogaerts, Casas, Yorke, Mayer and Story scenario (in this hypothetical all of those guys pan out). Xander’s future position hasn’t been talked about enough. I think that could be the difference between an extension and no extension. Does he want to be a shortstop or does he want to play for the Red Sox?
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Post by keninten on Jul 29, 2022 22:12:58 GMT -5
What a minute where ‘s Dalbec gonna play? hopefully somewhere else lol In another post he was getting traded for Trout.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 29, 2022 22:57:08 GMT -5
hopefully somewhere else lol In another post he was getting traded for Trout. Oof, glad Bloom didn't pull the trigger on that one - Trout's contract looks like a nightmare at the moment.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 29, 2022 23:01:06 GMT -5
hopefully somewhere else lol In another post he was getting traded for Trout. That was me in a game thread being facetious lol. But I would trade Dalbec for a hotdog.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 31, 2022 8:41:35 GMT -5
That's way too much money for Nomar, he hasn't played in years Joe Cronin was pretty good, too and the seasons Vern Stephens had in 1949 and 1950 were awesome. Petrocelli was fantastic in 1969. Pesky was an OBP machine. Valentin was underrated. The Sox have had some great SS. I'd still rate Nomar first and X second.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 31, 2022 8:42:27 GMT -5
lol
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Post by manfred on Jul 31, 2022 9:04:51 GMT -5
hopefully somewhere else lol In another post he was getting traded for Trout. A trout. I’d take a trout. A nice rainbow trout. Delicious.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 1, 2022 7:25:29 GMT -5
This better happen. Offer him the Jose Ramirez contract. Done.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 1, 2022 10:24:37 GMT -5
This better happen. Offer him the Jose Ramirez contract. Done. I'll speculate that Xander would say no to that and that he'll get a bigger, or at least higher AAV, contract this offseason.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2022 10:28:56 GMT -5
This better happen. Offer him the Jose Ramirez contract. Done. I'll speculate that Xander would say no to that and that he'll get a bigger, or at least higher AAV, contract this offseason. The Red Sox offered him 4/90 already; the Ramirez contract would just be tacking on 3/51 (17 million AAV) to the end of that. So yeah, I'd guess he'd say no.
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Post by soxaddict on Aug 1, 2022 14:33:15 GMT -5
I don’t see any team offering $30M per for 6+ years. If so, who? Realistically, how many teams will be willing to commit $180M to a 30 year old SS, that will soon need to be moved off the position? After a quick glance, I counted 6 possible suitors in 2023 (and some of those are questionable). Keep in mind, he will also be competing with Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, and possibly Carlos Correa. Draft pick compensation will also hurt. I suppose there could be some other teams on the list, but I viewed them as unlikely because of the money or they have a prospect close or ready to contribute.
Twins. Correa could opt to stay, they also have Royce Lewis. Unlikely.
Angels. They have a need, and nothing really in the system. But with so much money already sunk with Trout and Rendon, desperately needing pitching and have to also figure out how to keep Ohtani, I view them as unlikely.
Dodgers. They have a need, but I’d assume they’d be more concerned with bringing back Turner. Also, have Gavin Lux. Money is no object, but wouldn’t make sense, IMO.
Giants. I believe Crawford is a free agent, so they will have a need. However, Top prospect Luciano should be close. They have the money. Possible.
Nationals. This team is a train wreck. They can easily afford him, but would need to make a huge overpay to convince anyone to come there.
IMO, the Red Sox will be bidding against themselves. Xander needs Boston. I think the same deal Marcus Semien got from Texas last year (7 years, $175M) keeps Xander in Boston.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2022 16:59:10 GMT -5
What's tripping me up about the idea of a Bogaerts extension is the Story signing. Was the FO's idea of signing Story really to push Bogaerts to third/Raffy to DH post 2022? Or, were Bogaerts/Boras really asking for so much in a new contract the FO was persuaded into signing Story for Bogey insurance? Both? I can't see Bloom retaining all of Story, Bogaerts, and Devers and if I had to keep one of Xander and Raffy, it's definitely Raffy. Finally, Story's offensive issues this year are also bugging me. If Bloom really was betting that Story would be a better long-term bet at short I don't really see it playing out that way based on what we've seen this year. Thoughts? Somebody set me straight. Signing Story was both filling a need for 2B this year and insurance if Xander left afterwards. There is room for both.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 1, 2022 19:03:04 GMT -5
Considering Xman is the face of the team I would give him Correa deal based on making up a little money for past years but that is very generous to me. Exactly the same deal. Because he is our face .
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Post by Guidas on Aug 3, 2022 16:27:07 GMT -5
ZiPs has Xander projected only out to 2024 but even at SS it has him as a 4.1 fWAR player in 2023 and 4.0 in 2024. Not sure what the Sox models have him at beyond that, but ZiPs at least seems to have him in the "slow decline" category.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 3, 2022 16:35:47 GMT -5
What's tripping me up about the idea of a Bogaerts extension is the Story signing. Was the FO's idea of signing Story really to push Bogaerts to third/Raffy to DH post 2022? Or, were Bogaerts/Boras really asking for so much in a new contract the FO was persuaded into signing Story for Bogey insurance? Both? I can't see Bloom retaining all of Story, Bogaerts, and Devers and if I had to keep one of Xander and Raffy, it's definitely Raffy. Finally, Story's offensive issues this year are also bugging me. If Bloom really was betting that Story would be a better long-term bet at short I don't really see it playing out that way based on what we've seen this year. Thoughts? Somebody set me straight. Signing Story was both filling a need for 2B this year and insurance if Xander left afterwards. There is room for both. I don't think Story can physically hold up for a full season at SS anymore. I'd rather have a gold glove 2nd baseman. Its better for his career, someone just needs to tell him this.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 3, 2022 16:44:17 GMT -5
Signing Story was both filling a need for 2B this year and insurance if Xander left afterwards. There is room for both. I don't think Story can physically hold up for a full season at SS anymore. I'd rather have a gold glove 2nd baseman. Its better for his career, someone just needs to tell him this. Trea Turner will mention it to him after Bloom signs him in the off-season.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 3, 2022 17:56:22 GMT -5
ZiPs has Xander projected only out to 2024 but even at SS it has him as a 4.1 fWAR player in 2023 and 4.0 in 2024. Not sure what the Sox models have him at beyond that, but ZiPs at least seems to have him in the "slow decline" category. On Fangraphs it shows 4.4 and 4.0. Can't get much of a gauge on that though as those are his age 30 & 31 seasons and typical decline curves don't have large drop-offs until ~31 or 32. (Story does have a larger drop-off though, from 4.5 to 3.9, possibly because more of his value is tied to defense)
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