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Post by James Dunne on Jun 18, 2021 11:57:05 GMT -5
I am now getting targeted ads for Coppertone. I wish I was making this up.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 18, 2021 12:18:33 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with anyone that was cheating once it became clear that MLB was going to let everyone get away with it. It's hard to stomach the whining that they only get three weeks notice that the rules are going to be enforced, though. Especially given that they were notified in spring training that this would happen, so them complaining about it being just 3 weeks is them playing the spin game: www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/24/mlb-foreign-substances-baseball-pitchers-crackdown/And I'm not condoning MLB here, their behavior (or lack of) essentially forced players into this situation. But listening to players complain is like getting caught going 85 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that you get a free pass. You just happened to be the one caught. For me, this is the takeaway from the Post's article: There will be hall monitors who, I assume, will be randomly selecting balls that have been/will be in pitcher's hands. Given the state of modern chemistry and spectral analysis, those balls will be the source of very detailed information, probably down to the exact product and manufacturer. That could be a good thing, allowing for the sort of fine-grained differentiation that Hatfield and others have mentioned. It does make me wonder how pitchers will react to this sort of intrusion. Do you take the monitor out for a drink? Or do you get someone in the parking lot to flatten all their tires?
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Post by jimgosger on Jun 18, 2021 12:24:48 GMT -5
So hitters are allowed to use batting gloves and pine tar in order to hold onto bats. Pitchers have rosin, but many pitchers say it's useless for gripping a baseball and that the balls are too slippery. Apparently Japanese baseballs allow for more grip. The problem here is that MLB hasn't determined how to allow pitchers to have proper grip of the baseball without allowing them to have the significant competitive advantage in spin rate that substances like spider tac gives them. Maybe it's pine tar, maybe it's something else. It just seems to me there is some reasonable solution here for both hitters and pitchers.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jun 18, 2021 13:47:28 GMT -5
So hitters are allowed to use batting gloves and pine tar in order to hold onto bats. Pitchers have rosin, but many pitchers say it's useless for gripping a baseball and that the balls are too slippery. Apparently Japanese baseballs allow for more grip. The problem here is that MLB hasn't determined how to allow pitchers to have proper grip of the baseball without allowing them to have the significant competitive advantage in spin rate that substances like spider tac gives them. Maybe it's pine tar, maybe it's something else. It just seems to me there is some reasonable solution here for both hitters and pitchers. Thing is, holding the bat with a tacky substance so it doesn't fly away has little or nothing to do with the bat getting in contact with the ball. Holding the ball with a tacky substance has EVERYTHING to do with the ball avoiding contact with the bat. Oh, and thanks to whoever merged the thread I started with this one, which I neglected to notice.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 18, 2021 15:50:17 GMT -5
From the gameday thread: If Richards is the only pitcher on the staff suffering from reduced spin rate due to the new rules... that’s gotta be an advantage for the Sox right? So far it does look like it's primarily Richards being impacted:
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 18, 2021 15:52:47 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 18, 2021 17:31:01 GMT -5
Great charts, foreverred9. I'm thinking we'll know where everything stands after each pitcher's first appearance starting 6/21.
This is all kind of fun if you ask me. The data pulling back the curtain is kind of exciting from a gossip standpoint - plus we get the challenge of having to re-evalaute so many players.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jun 18, 2021 17:49:55 GMT -5
I think Pivetta will be interesting to watch. He seems to have made a good deal of his slider and curve this year as he’s stepped up…. I’ll be really curious to see if those pitches maintain their bite. Not impugning him, but if there are pitchers who will be hurt by this, it seems like guys with nasty sliders might be at the front of the line.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 18, 2021 18:39:08 GMT -5
I think Pivetta will be interesting to watch. He seems to have made a good deal of his slider and curve this year as he’s stepped up…. I’ll be really curious to see if those pitches maintain their bite. Not impugning him, but if there are pitchers who will be hurt by this, it seems like guys with nasty sliders might be at the front of the line. Richards looks like he will be in trouble but I take the rest of that as good news as the other starters don't have the elevated spin rates associated with the sticky stuff.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 18, 2021 18:56:58 GMT -5
I expected the pitcher Valdez from the Astros will get caught. He was real cute against the Sox. He would go to his hat every time when he got two strikes and then you would see this crazy movement on his pitch. Even Will Fleming mentioned something on the pregame the day after he pitched.
Just a prediction on my part .
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Post by patford on Jun 20, 2021 12:40:25 GMT -5
Here's something which just crossed my mind after reading this article: www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31674416/some-mlb-teams-plan-ask-umpires-check-pitchers-foreign-substances-sources-saySuppose that the Sox (Bloom directing Cora or Cora on his own) decided that the team needed to be proactive on the coming crackdown and get ahead of the curve (no pun intended). So the Sox pitchers were told to immediately adjust and perhaps that explains the really horrible stretch for the starters? My guess is the Sox internally feel they will be under extra scrutiny given some recent punishments the organization has had to absorb.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 12:03:21 GMT -5
Pedro making some points about gripping the ball.
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Post by foreverred9 on Jun 23, 2021 19:34:21 GMT -5
Barnes again at the lower spin rates last night. It'll be interesting to see if, and how much, this translates into performance given that this is a contract year for him.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 24, 2021 7:21:56 GMT -5
Pedro making some points about gripping the ball. I'm not naive enough to think Pedro did nothing, but imagine him during his peak with spider tack?
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 24, 2021 8:57:14 GMT -5
He was filthy. I just loved seeing that changeup to lefties for strike 3, not fair.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 24, 2021 10:24:32 GMT -5
Pedro making some points about gripping the ball. Pedro works in the Red Sox organization I believe. They should definitely have him work with Richards who thinks the rosin bag is worthless.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2021 10:11:27 GMT -5
I admittedly have not read the link, but man, that chart is something.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2021 10:12:09 GMT -5
Pedro making some points about gripping the ball. Pedro works in the Red Sox organization I believe. They should definitely have him work with Richards who thinks the rosin bag is worthless. Pedro is also an alien with super-long, double-jointed fingers, fwiw.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 3, 2021 14:15:19 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 31, 2021 3:53:06 GMT -5
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Post by baseball3 on Nov 19, 2021 5:33:27 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Nov 19, 2021 6:36:08 GMT -5
Why not just change the ball mid season? Give each pitcher a different ball with random tackiness and see how they do? Glad this is all so well thought out and planned.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 19, 2021 11:08:10 GMT -5
Sure, let's muck with the ball again. What could happen?... I would say that look under the definition of "charlatan" in the dictionary and there's Manfred's photo, but then they'd have to take down all the photos of our U.S. Senators and Congresshumans.
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Post by greenmonster on Nov 19, 2021 12:32:20 GMT -5
Lets just play with "Tacky Superballs" that way the pitchers can get all the spin they want and the hitters can hit them 700ft when they make contact......everyone is happy (except perhaps the fans)
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