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7/19-7/21 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Thread
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Post by Canseco on Jul 22, 2021 0:06:03 GMT -5
Buffalo, by the way, was ROCKING for the Carmines tonight.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,931
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 22, 2021 2:30:18 GMT -5
This is the 16th time in MLB history that a team has hit 5+ HR in consecutive games in an opponent's park. (It's been done 14 times at home.) Prior to this year, the only time that a team had both done that, and had it done to them in the same season was the '94 Phillies, who hit 10 HR in Colorado on May 8 and 9, and then gave up 14 at home to the Reds on 9/4 (9) and 9/5 (5).
So the Jays hanging 13 HR on us in Fenway on 6/12 and 6/13, and us hanging 11 on them on in backup-Toronto on 7/19 and 7/21 is completely unprecedented.
And this is the 4th time in the last 2 years that a team has hit 5 or more homers in consecutive games, and they all involve the Blue Jays. The other two:
8/12/20: Jays hit 7 HR and have 18 hits vs. the Marlins, but lose 14-11. After an off day, they hit 6 against the Rays and win 12-4.
9/15/20 to 9/17: Yankees host the Jays and hit 6, 7, and 6 homers. First team in MLB history to have 6+ HR's in 3 straight games.
(First team to hit 5+ in 3 straight games was of course the 1977 Sox against the Yankees, the "Boston Massacre" from Friday 6/17 to Sunday 6/19 where we hit 6, 5, and 5 and outscored them 30-9. First I heard of it was driving home from my 5th prep school reunion.)
If you knew beforehand that we'd have 1 single in this game and hit .250, how optimistic would you have been about the offense? But we had 9 hits and slugged .750 and won.
Has that ever happened before, ever? No. The '55 Reds had a single, 3 doubles, and 5 homers at home versus the Braves on 4/16, but the game was never close; they were down 6-0 when they hit 3 solo homers in the 5th and added two more in the 7th and 9th and lost 9-4.
The Reds in '74 and '01 won games with a .250 BA and .500 Iso, but via 3 singles and 6 homers. The O's lost a game like that this year ... to (who else?) Toronto, on 6/19. And the '14 Braves won a game with 2 singles, double, triple, 5 homers. But 8 XBH out of 9, .250 BA, .750 SA had only been done at home, in a loss ... doing that on the road in a win is unique.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 22, 2021 6:44:58 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 22, 2021 8:24:25 GMT -5
Is it me or is there an increased amount of groin/hammy type injuries? Seems that would be more likely in the colder times (spring/fall) than in mid-summer. Off the top of my head....Arroyo, Andriese, Marwin, Santana all pulled something in the last week or two.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2021 8:26:35 GMT -5
Since 6/21, Kiké Hernandez has a .994 OPS. Wow!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2021 8:59:34 GMT -5
Very true but is some of that inflated by the ballpark? Team OPS is over 100 points higher at home. With Vlad leading the way at 350 points higher at home, hmmm. Wow just looked it up and vlad jr is slugging .813 at home .533 on road. .533 is still extremely good but .813 is elite type of stuff. I like vlad Jr a lot but let's hope getting back into the rogers center in Toronto gets him closer to that .533 range and the blue jays offense slows down up there since I don't fear their pitching. Statcast has Vlad with 28.1 expected home runs vs an actual 32. Devers is at 26.6 vs actual 24.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2021 9:00:20 GMT -5
Re Whitlock. He threw 19 pitches today in 1.1 innings. Whitlock will be available for his usual stint at some point during the four game series with the MFYs. True, he will, but not tonight and I don't know if Houck will be able to go longer than 4 innings. Whitlock won't be around tonight to bridge the gap, so they have to go to Sawamura (even if he only throws 1 pitch, apparently he can't pitch on back-to-back nights without disastrous results, so it's a good thing he's rested) and Darwinzon Hernandez (tough for me to watch)to bridge the gap to Taylor, Ottavino, and Barnes.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,067
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Post by cdj on Jul 22, 2021 9:04:00 GMT -5
I was checking Kikè baseball reference page and it seems like his WAR went down last night (from 3 to 2.9)? I don’t get that at all
Edit: just realized it’s not updated with last nights results, my B
Guys gonna be at like 3.2 or something wildly unexpected
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 22, 2021 10:47:17 GMT -5
How much longer do we ride Richards?
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Post by 1980bornsoxfan on Jul 22, 2021 10:53:09 GMT -5
Bogarts looks like he’s scuffling a bit lately, what game did he get hit in the hand? I know his Ops in the month of July has gone from .949. To .909 , is he injured and playing through the pain. Also will this be a lingering issue all season?
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 22, 2021 10:54:30 GMT -5
How much longer do we ride Richards? My guess is at least until sale is back because there aren't any alternatives. Also he was doing pretty well and showing some interesting stuff yesterday until he gave up the home runs in that bandbox of a ballpark. Last night was at least intriguing enough for me to give him a bit more leash.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 22, 2021 10:57:34 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 22, 2021 11:02:21 GMT -5
If they were standing next to each other I'm not sure I could pick out who was who haha.
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 22, 2021 11:21:49 GMT -5
How much longer do we ride Richards? Look...i didn't like the Richards signing at the time and at the beginning of the season his ERA made him look a lot better than he was. But...credit where credit is due...it looks like he found his footing (again). I'm not saying the last few games were pretty...but look at what he went through: -he was using sticky stuff and it sounded like he did for a long time -he went cold turkey and it showed, nothing was working for him anymore -he had to throw everything he knew away and start from scratch...on the fly...in the mayors -and now to looks like he has found something he can work with Talk about "making adjustments during the season"...i don't think i have every seen a pitcher that needed to change so drastically...and he somewhat pulled it off. It's actually pretty remarkable. I'm not saying he is done transforming, but i think the biggest part is behind him. He is not as good as he was with the sticky stuff, but I think he can be a serviceable starter down the line. *knocksonwood*
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2021 11:24:00 GMT -5
How much longer do we ride Richards? Longer than I'd ride with Perez. Richards is capable of five credible innings these days. Is Perez?
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2021 11:35:36 GMT -5
Perez has given up more than 3 runs in 3 out of 19 starts this season. Over his last 6 starts he has a 3.33 ERA/4.50 FIP/4.16 xFIP. He keeps the team in games. Not sure what more you want from your fifth starter. Richards, by comparison, has given up more than 3 runs 7 times this season and is at 7.33/7.80/5.57 in his last six starts. I'm with vokuhila in seeing some promising signs in his performance, but still, there's no question that Perez has pitched better, both recently and throught the season.
ADD: For some arbitrary context, Perez would rank second in the Yankees rotation in ERA, third in FIP and xFIP.
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 22, 2021 11:48:49 GMT -5
Well...Perez couldn't give up more than 3 runs because he was pulled before that Length of his last 8 starts: 2 1.1 5 3.2 5.1 5.1 3.2 4.0 At the moment I think they are on the same level. But the rest of the team (offense, defense and bulpen) are so good that 5-6 innings of 3 run ball out of your forth anf fifth starter should put the team in a position to win. I guess the next few starts will decide who moves to the bulpen (or gets traded) once Sale comes back.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 22, 2021 11:48:57 GMT -5
Perez has given up more than 3 runs in 3 out of 19 starts this season. Over his last 6 starts he has a 3.33 ERA/4.50 FIP/4.16 xFIP. He keeps the team in games. Not sure what more you want from your fifth starter. Richards, by comparison, has given up more than 3 runs 7 times this season and is at 7.33/7.80/5.57 in his last six starts. I'm with vokuhila in seeing some promising signs in his performance, but still, there's no question that Perez has pitched better, both recently and throught the season.
ADD: For some arbitrary context, Perez would rank second in the Yankees rotation in ERA, third in FIP and xFIP.
Completely agree on perez. He usually has a strong first half and tails off in 2nd half so we'll see what the next few months hold. He's getting close to me saying let's pick up his option for next year though. He offers solid value per his price and I'd have no problem penciling him into the 5th starter role next year. Richards on the other hand I'd decline that option and say cya later.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2021 11:55:34 GMT -5
Well...Perez couldn't give up more than 3 runs because he was pulled before that Length of his last 8 starts: 2 1.1 5 3.2 5.1 5.1 3.2 4.0 At the moment I think they are on the same level. But the rest of the team (offense, defense and bulpen) are so good that 5-6 innings of 3 run ball should put the team in a position to win. That sounds feasible. The first two starts in that series were definitely stinkers, but since then he has the 3.33 ERA etc. line. In any event, is there a reason to think he's suddenly a different and worse pitcher just because a few of his recent outings have been short? He has a track record, he's very consistent, and while he's never going to compete for a Cy Young he offers about as much reliability as you can hope for in a fifth starter.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 22, 2021 11:56:09 GMT -5
The thing with Richards is what are you going to get. Last night he was very good from the start and was looking impressive before giving up some quick runs. Before that he was giving up the runs early and Cora gave him the slack to right the ship and he would go 4 strong innings. I would say he would be a good piggyback with Houck but can he get out of the first consistently?
The closer I follow pitching the more I see the cut off being like 80 pitches before the wheels start to come off with the majority of these guys. And to me it looks like the Sox have the horses between the minors and the bigs to run guys out there for 4 innings. Right at the moment it is a bit thin because of injuries but look at the depth chart and their are a lot of guys who COULD be ML starters but maybe they are all a bunch of 4th or 5th guys in a rotation. Next year barring trades, Houck, Whitfield, Seabold, Hart, Perez, it would be more if not for all the TJ surgeries. I also think it would be good to treat all your rookie starters with the same kid gloves until they prove they can deal for 100+. I guess what I am getting at is the Sox are deep with good pitchers not great so the piggyback thing would work with those guys. Can you set your staff up to have the 4th and 5th spots be piggyback, it does look like what is coming in the future.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2021 12:07:59 GMT -5
Perez has given up more than 3 runs in 3 out of 19 starts this season. Over his last 6 starts he has a 3.33 ERA/4.50 FIP/4.16 xFIP. He keeps the team in games. Not sure what more you want from your fifth starter. Richards, by comparison, has given up more than 3 runs 7 times this season and is at 7.33/7.80/5.57 in his last six starts. I'm with vokuhila in seeing some promising signs in his performance, but still, there's no question that Perez has pitched better, both recently and throught the season. ADD: For some arbitrary context, Perez would rank second in the Yankees rotation in ERA, third in FIP and xFIP.
Perez usually tails off in the second half. I anticipate his ERA will be around or above 5 when all is said and done and he'll throw some stinkers there to get to that. Right now his numbers look respectable because Cora yanks him at the first sign of any real trouble which is usually by the 5th inning if even that long. Truthfully, I could see Perez being a respectable long man, somebody who can give you 3 innings of decent pitching. With Richards it would be scary to try that given how rough his starts usually are. But to Richards' credit he usually figures it out and lately he has been pitching better, and I'm interested in seeing where his evolution is going. I'm no huge Garrett Richards' fan, but I think he can be a respectable #5 starter. Fact of the matter is that if the Sox were in a 7 game post-season series, I'd want neither Richards or Perez to start. It would be Sale/Eovaldi/E-Rod/Pivetta, and if there was room in the pen for just one of those two, I'd choose Perez over Richards (although I'd hope for a better alternative.)
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 22, 2021 12:39:40 GMT -5
Perez has outperformed his peripherals all season. His xERA has consistantly been around 5. Even while his ERA was 3 or 3.5. That's why ericmvan made him out as a possible candidate for a "Bloom trade" (meaning it would be baffling on first glance, but look good once you understand it) three weeks ago. forum.soxprospects.com/post/466196/threadPerez might fetch a nice return, if you find a frontoffice that purely looks at ERA.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 22, 2021 12:53:45 GMT -5
Is it me or is there an increased amount of groin/hammy type injuries? Seems that would be more likely in the colder times (spring/fall) than in mid-summer. Off the top of my head....Arroyo, Andriese, Marwin, Santana all pulled something in the last week or two. Yes, soft tissue injuries have been up across baseball this year. No no, he meant Orrin Castellanos.
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Post by vokuhila on Jul 22, 2021 13:11:02 GMT -5
Well...Perez couldn't give up more than 3 runs because he was pulled before that Length of his last 8 starts: 2 1.1 5 3.2 5.1 5.1 3.2 4.0 At the moment I think they are on the same level. But the rest of the team (offense, defense and bulpen) are so good that 5-6 innings of 3 run ball should put the team in a position to win. That sounds feasible. The first two starts in that series were definitely stinkers, but since then he has the 3.33 ERA etc. line. In any event, is there a reason to think he's suddenly a different and worse pitcher just because a few of his recent outings have been short? He has a track record, he's very consistent, and while he's never going to compete for a Cy Young he offers about as much reliability as you can hope for in a fifth starter. I'm not "down" on Perez. Over the course of the season Perez outperformed Richards while being payed half as much. In fact Perez had earned his salary after half the season. I'm just saying both of them are going through a rough patch and are on a similar level atm. Both are back-of-the-rotation starters. There is noting wrong with that, one of my weirder RedSox fetishes was watching Paul Byrd and his 85mph "fast"ball go up against the AL East. He knew exactly what he was, a fifth starter who would give up at least one HR per game and strike no one out. And his gameplan was just as simple, keep the bases empty so when the inevitable HR comes it will be just one run. On a good day he would give you 6IP 7H 1BB 2K 1HR 3ER. I really enjoyed watching him.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 22, 2021 13:31:06 GMT -5
I dout trust either of them. And neither should be anywhere near a postseason roster. That said we are going to need starts from both of them to make it to the postseason. I think going forward Richards is a bit safer than Perez. Imagine how many HRs the Jays hit of Perez yesterday??? The big thing for Richards is how he moves forward without the tack. He was terible those first 3 outings , but has been improving. Obviously Sale is the WC. And I’m not sure the FO is going to add any SP. it’s just to much of a crapshoot at a high cost. 1- Sale 2- evo 3- Houck 4- Erod 5- Pivetta Could be enough.
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