SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Red Sox Acquire Kyle Schwarber for Aldo Ramirez
|
Post by vokuhila on Jul 30, 2021 13:10:03 GMT -5
Funny how we hear a lot about the defensive issues at 1B (and that Dalbec hasn't so far outhit his defensive limitations). And yet we're thinking of giving Schwarber a flyer at 1B with literally nothing to go on about what he'd do there? Along with total uncertainty about when he might return to the lineup? It seems to me that this move qualifies much more as an acquisition with long-term implications than as a pickup designed to put this year's team over the top. Please clarify Do you mean QO shenanigans?
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2021 13:18:01 GMT -5
By my calculations, I believe that Schwarber is now the 2nd best hitter on the Red Sox slightly behind Devers, but ahead of Xander and JDM.
He fits like a glove on this team, whether that's an OF or 1B glove does not matter.
Yes defense matters, but not really a lot in LF or 1B.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jul 30, 2021 13:20:18 GMT -5
I think it’s realistic that Schwarber might not play until September. He’s been down for some time now with that hamstring. It could be 2 weeks before he even goes out for a re hab. He could re hab for 2 weeks & play some 1B. Then he’s up come end of August/ 1st of September. Didn’t he go through something similar with the Cubs when they won it all? Came back just for end of season & playoffs? You mean when he tore his ACL and LCL in a collision at the start of the season and then still miraculously came back for the World Series? Yeah I think with a strained hammy we can expect a slightly different timeline.
|
|
|
Post by soxinsf on Jul 30, 2021 13:32:22 GMT -5
By my calculations, I believe that Schwarber is now the 2nd best hitter on the Red Sox slightly behind Devers, but ahead of Xander and JDM. I am among those who questioned this trade when first announced because I did not then and do not now believe that Schwarber is going to play an adequate first base. Yes, he could play there. Anyone can play there, just as anyone can play LF if you hold your nose. But, the long analysis of what he does for the lineup as an outfielder makes the trade look better and better. Renfroe exceeded our expectations but he is cooling off a bit and Schwarber is very likely to hit better than Renfroe. Schwarber is also very likely to hit better than Duran. I wish Duran had come up sooner and had more than 34 AB to get up to speed against big league pitching. He will not, in my estimation, get sent down, but he is also a candidate to give up AB to Schwarber. As for Dugie, for some reason, a few folks are underestimating this guy because he has gone through a down period. Unless his injuries are really dogging him, in which case Schwarber is again a useful replacement that allows the Sox to keep Kiké at second base, I cannot see how Dugie ever leaves the lineup save for his occasional day of rest. And of course, there is always the chance that Schwarber will play first. I just doubt it at this point. Admittedly, a guess. So, on the whole, and the question of cost aside, I would rather have had Rizzo.
|
|
|
Post by soxinsf on Jul 30, 2021 13:37:53 GMT -5
When was Schwarber hurt? What was the prognosis at the time? What info do we have about where he is the the rehab process. Is he running the bases yet? Was he in minor league camp somewhere or still working at a medical facility doing muscle work but not baseball activities? The projected mid-August return would be more encouraging if we knew more about it. Maybe later today or over the weekend, Bloom will speak. So far, he is all crickets.
|
|
|
Post by vokuhila on Jul 30, 2021 13:41:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 30, 2021 13:41:50 GMT -5
I’m surprised people are so down on this trade. We needed another bat in the lineup and got one of the very best available, who might not end up being a rental (we’ll see).
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2021 13:42:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by worldbfree on Jul 30, 2021 13:58:13 GMT -5
I’m surprised people are so down on this trade. We needed another bat in the lineup and got one of the very best available, who might not end up being a rental (we’ll see). When is he going to play? That has something to do with it.
|
|
|
Post by Legion of Bloom on Jul 30, 2021 14:00:28 GMT -5
I’m surprised people are so down on this trade. We needed another bat in the lineup and got one of the very best available, who might not end up being a rental (we’ll see). When is he going to play? That has something to do with it. Wouldn’t it be better to wait and see before bashing a move? If he plays in 10 days and sets the world on fire would you still feed bad about the move because he missed 10 days?
|
|
|
Post by vokuhila on Jul 30, 2021 14:00:56 GMT -5
I Just posted the Speier tweet "Sounds like he might not be ready to play for about 10 days"
|
|
|
Post by orion09 on Jul 30, 2021 14:10:56 GMT -5
By my calculations, I believe that Schwarber is now the 2nd best hitter on the Red Sox slightly behind Devers, but ahead of Xander and JDM.
He fits like a glove on this team, whether that's an OF or 1B glove does not matter.
Yes defense matters, but not really a lot in LF or 1B.
I'm not sure I would expect him to sustain that level of production. He's got a .393 xwOBA this year, just below Devers at .396, but that's inflated by his crazy June (.483 xwOBA, 16 HR). If you take out June, his season xwOBA is .338. Obviously, you can't just remove a hitter's best stretch, but I would expect him to skew more toward his career mark (.359) over the rest of the season. That would still be good enough for the 3rd best mark on the team, which will fit in nicely with the current "Big 4."
|
|
|
Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 30, 2021 14:17:29 GMT -5
I’m surprised people are so down on this trade. We needed another bat in the lineup and got one of the very best available, who might not end up being a rental (we’ll see). When is he going to play? That has something to do with it. I think the injury delay had something to do with the price paid. Re: 1B, I just wish I could think of a catcher who ever moved to 1B, besides every catcher in the history of the game who could really hit and couldn't really catch. Schwarber was actually athletic enough to move to LF (not something most catchers could do) because the Cubs already had a young star at 1B. People make it sound like that's a bad thing. And he's stayed in LF for years. I wish I c8uld think of a LF who had to m8ve to 1B because he c8uldn't play LF anym8re. Pr8bably never happened bef8re either.
|
|
|
Post by joshuacoffee on Jul 30, 2021 15:45:12 GMT -5
Count me as another person puzzled why anyone thinks this doesn't help us. Unless you think Schwarber is going to play SS, 3B, or can only be a DH, he is an sizable upgrade over every other option. If it turns out he can hold down 1B defensively (remember when moving Chavis to 2B seemed absurd?), then it's a massive upgrade. But let's just say he's primarily he's going to play LF. Are people really arguing that they would rather have Renfro or Duran (what he is right now, not what he might be someday, emphasis on the might). I like Renfro, I've defended Renfro on this board, but there's no comparison. And Arroyo doesn't seem to be able to stay healthy, and even if he could, who in their right mind would start him over Schwarber on a regular basis. It seriously makes me wonder if people are just trolling.
Also, there seems to be an idea that Bloom only has the ability to work on one trade at a time, so because he got Schwarber, we missed out on getting a true first baseman. I would say that the Sox system has a number of prospects that organizations would view with around the same value as Aldo, so I can't imagine moving him meant we didn't missed a deal just because of that. Anyone want to guess which of our prospects it would have taken to beat the Yankees bid for Rizzo? In a vacuum, maybe I'd rather have Rizzo playing first than Schwarber playing LF for this team, but probably not at the cost it would have taken.
How about we stay sane on this one? Is this deal exactly what I was hoping for at the deadline this year? Nope. Is there a good chance it was the best deal available to make the biggest difference on the big league club without gutting the future? Probably.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,987
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 30, 2021 15:59:19 GMT -5
The one thing I am certain about right now is that I have zero information about whether Schwarber is willing and able to play 1b--when reasonably healthy. It's possible that a conversation with him about this last night is one reason they did not acquire a 1b today and in fact traded one away, albeit a short guy who cannot hit, in Chavis.
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 30, 2021 16:11:57 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by widewordofsport on Jul 30, 2021 16:13:36 GMT -5
Schwarber is too big (listed 6'0" but who cares) and too left handed to not play first... give him a glove and let him go. I hate to see Aldo leave, but by definition, pretty much every commenter here overrates prospects, its why we are here, to follow and become attached to these guys.
As long as we still have Winkleman we're good.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2021 16:15:25 GMT -5
Schwarber is too big (listed 6'0" but who cares) and too left handed to not play first... give him a glove and let him go. I hate to see Aldo leave, but by definition, pretty much every commenter here overrates prospects, its why we are here, to follow and become attached to these guys. As long as we still have Winkleman we're good. And Bello.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxjosh82 on Jul 30, 2021 16:47:16 GMT -5
I love this deal. Hopefully gets us closer to never having to see Cordero or Santana play again.
|
|
|
Post by tizzle on Jul 30, 2021 16:52:50 GMT -5
I mean, couldn't Kris Bryant have been that guy? Someone who knows prospects, is the prospect the Giants gave up much more valuable than Aldo? Because, even though I've always really liked Schwarber and am kind of excited to see him in our lineup, if we chose Schwarber over Bryant, that seems like a really odd choice.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 30, 2021 17:06:19 GMT -5
I mean, couldn't Kris Bryant have been that guy? Someone who knows prospects, is the prospect the Giants gave up much more valuable than Aldo? Because, even though I've always really liked Schwarber and am kind of excited to see him in our lineup, if we chose Schwarber over Bryant, that seems like a really odd choice. Yeah, I like Schwarber's bat. He was on a hot streak before the injury. But if he can't play 1b, that shoe horns him into the outfield meaning that Renfroe most likely sits. Not that Renfroe is irreplaceable, but I really like the outfield defense of Verdugo in LF, Duran or Hernandez in CF, and Renfroe in RF. Schwarber in LF I'm not much a fan of. Of course if he can't handle 1b or makes a mess while trying, it could be costly. It's not like he has a winter or spring training to get the hang of the nuances of 1b. Love the bat. Just hope it doesn't mess up the team defense which is also important. I don't know enough about the prospects the Cubs received to know if the Sox could have topped it. If Schwarber can play 1b passably and mashes then this is a really good deal. If he can't, then the Sox really didn't help themselves at the deadline. I guess there will hopefully be a time where the farm system inventory is so deep they can make deals to help themselves and not deplete the farm system. I think that's what Bloom is striving for and he's not there yet and he knows it, which is why I always point to the middle of the decade when the Sox have a new core and perhaps retain Devers and/or X, because I figure by then the farm system should be closer to where Bloom wants it.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jul 30, 2021 17:12:28 GMT -5
I mean, couldn't Kris Bryant have been that guy? Someone who knows prospects, is the prospect the Giants gave up much more valuable than Aldo? Because, even though I've always really liked Schwarber and am kind of excited to see him in our lineup, if we chose Schwarber over Bryant, that seems like a really odd choice. Yeah I don't know what to make of the Bryant trade. Fangraphs rates the top prospect the Cubs got there as somewhere between Bazardo and Ronaldo Hernandez and the other prospect isn't even ranked. Could we not have topped that with, like, Ramirez and Matthew Lugo? I would've done that.
But then they probably would have gone over the CBT limit I guess. And if we could have topped the Giants' offer the Rays definitely could have, and yet they didn't, so maybe the Cubs just really liked those guys.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jul 30, 2021 17:15:48 GMT -5
I mean, couldn't Kris Bryant have been that guy? Someone who knows prospects, is the prospect the Giants gave up much more valuable than Aldo? Because, even though I've always really liked Schwarber and am kind of excited to see him in our lineup, if we chose Schwarber over Bryant, that seems like a really odd choice. Yeah I don't know what to make of the Bryant trade. Fangraphs rates the top prospect the Cubs got there as somewhere between Bazardo and Ronaldo Hernandez and the other prospect isn't even ranked. Could we not have topped that with, like, Ramirez and Matthew Lugo? I would've done that.
But then they probably would have gone over the CBT limit I guess. And if we could have topped the Giants' offer the Rays definitely could have, and yet they didn't, so maybe the Cubs just really liked those guys.
FWIW other outlets have thrown a 55 (BA) or 50 (MLB) grade on the top prospect there. FG seems to be relatively low on him. Like you said, maybe the Cubs see him more towards the high end of that spectrum, certainly changes what the comp on the Red Sox would be. Also, I actually think staying under the tax and acquiring an equally good hitter (obviously worse defender and the injury matters, but still) is not a small deal. It gives them one extra year where they can spend big, and that flexibility could come in handy in future offseason or deadline deals where there's more of a clear difference. That being said had they made the Bryant deal instead and the prospect cost was about what you mentioned, or even if it was that high and they made it in addition to the Schwarber deal, I would've been okay with it, I'm just not super passionate either way on that.
|
|
|
Post by malynn19 on Jul 30, 2021 17:32:19 GMT -5
When is he going to play? That has something to do with it. I think the injury delay had something to do with the price paid. Re: 1B, I just wish I could think of a catcher who ever moved to 1B, besides every catcher in the history of the game who could really hit and couldn't really catch. Schwarber was actually athletic enough to move to LF (not something most catchers could do) because the Cubs already had a young star at 1B. People make it sound like that's a bad thing. And he's stayed in LF for years. I wish I c8uld think of a LF who had to m8ve to 1B because he c8uldn't play LF anym8re. Pr8bably never happened bef8re either. My dad would of loved this post. 8 and 4 were his 2 favorite numbers. But 4 was for the Bruins.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 30, 2021 17:50:55 GMT -5
Don't do this to me when I'm under the influence. I just read that post 8 times.
Or was that o times?
|
|
|