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8/3-8/5 Red Sox @ Tigers Thread
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 5, 2021 15:14:37 GMT -5
Be feeling rather swell, but literally everyone knew what problems this team had. Everyone knew Perez and Richards needed to go. Everyone knew that 1B is a void. They could have used a bullpen arm and they got two horrendous pitchers for nothing. Xander, JDM, and Verdugo are all struggling. When they don't hit, the offense goes with them. Schwarber should add some protection to that assuming he's the same coming off injury. Last I checked, Duran is striking out 40% of the time right now. Not great if you're going to maintain a playoff run. Schwarber should be in LF and Duran should be rotating around to give guys time off. They needed a 1B whose negative WAR isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd. There was very little effort to improve this team and not thrilled about seeing another monumental collapse. Still not over chicken and beer. You're being over the top ridiculous. Perez and Richards will not be starting 10 days from now and there will still be 40 something games to play. They're going to have Sale/Eovaldi/E-Rod/Pivetta/Houck. Maybe Seabold makes some September starts. I'd stick with Duran. Giving up after about 40 ABs is ridiculous. They will hopefully get some more help with Arroyo and Brasier return. Will they finish first? Maybe. Probably not, but it's not out of the question. Will they blow both wild card spots? Possibly, but not likely. I think the most likely scenario is that the Yankees play the Sox at Fenway for the Wild Card game. The second most likely scenario is that the Sox play the Yankees at Yankee Stadium for the Wild Car game. Oakland is about 1.5 games better than NY and I don't think they'll hang onto it. Maybe both the Yanks and Jays charge, but they'd both have to kick butt and they both will play each other handing the other losses and damaging the others' chances, and the M's are really over their heads, so I think the Sox and Yanks are most likely the wild cards. If the Sox revert back to driving in runs without needing a HR, then maybe they'll start winning some games. Get Sale, and the others back, and they'll keep winning games. They just have to make sure they drown over the next week. No need to be in full panic mode. It's ok to be annoyed, but this, "They should have sold" stuff is complete nonsense. I have zero confidence in ERod. I also have zero confidence in Sale being an ace and throwing 90 pitches a start. If this organization has half a brain they aren't going to do that with him. So while you're correct in Richards and Perez probably wont be starting they'll still be 1B to Sale's 1A. Which if Sale pitches 4 innings a game that gives both of them 2 innings after Sale to get demolished. They need to get off this team now. |
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Post by benzinger on Aug 5, 2021 15:14:39 GMT -5
Failing at the trade deadline seems to have killed this team. It’s like they all looked around the next day and realized it was all smoke and mirrors. Yeah, they added arguably the best available bat at the deadline, massive failure. Damn folks, the Sox are about to be 1.5 games out and 18 games over .500, there was bound to be a bad stretch for this team. Lets hope they can get rolling here soon before the reinforcements are ready (Sale and Schwarber). No. They didn’t add anything close to the “best bat” available. Especially since he isn’t even active(and has never played the position where they plan to use him). None of it made any sense. Rizzo was always the move they needed to make. And just look what Rizzo has done for the Yankees. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 5, 2021 15:18:18 GMT -5
Who pitches Wednesday?
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Post by Canseco on Aug 5, 2021 15:19:12 GMT -5
With respect to Martin Perez...  |
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Post by soxaddict on Aug 5, 2021 15:20:39 GMT -5
Is it out of the question we give Seabold a shot vs Tampa on Wednesday? Or at least use an opener? My thought as well. Is it also possible to see if Ort or Adames can help out. |
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 5, 2021 15:20:40 GMT -5
Not the guy they should have signed or traded for using hindsight! |
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Post by benzinger on Aug 5, 2021 15:21:03 GMT -5
You're being over the top ridiculous. Perez and Richards will not be starting 10 days from now and there will still be 40 something games to play. They're going to have Sale/Eovaldi/E-Rod/Pivetta/Houck. Maybe Seabold makes some September starts. I'd stick with Duran. Giving up after about 40 ABs is ridiculous. They will hopefully get some more help with Arroyo and Brasier return. Will they finish first? Maybe. Probably not, but it's not out of the question. Will they blow both wild card spots? Possibly, but not likely. I think the most likely scenario is that the Yankees play the Sox at Fenway for the Wild Card game. The second most likely scenario is that the Sox play the Yankees at Yankee Stadium for the Wild Car game. Oakland is about 1.5 games better than NY and I don't think they'll hang onto it. Maybe both the Yanks and Jays charge, but they'd both have to kick butt and they both will play each other handing the other losses and damaging the others' chances, and the M's are really over their heads, so I think the Sox and Yanks are most likely the wild cards. If the Sox revert back to driving in runs without needing a HR, then maybe they'll start winning some games. Get Sale, and the others back, and they'll keep winning games. They just have to make sure they drown over the next week. No need to be in full panic mode. It's ok to be annoyed, but this, "They should have sold" stuff is complete nonsense. I have zero confidence in ERod. I also have zero confidence in Sale being an ace and throwing 90 pitches a start. If this organization has half a brain they aren't going to do that with him. So while you're correct in Richards and Perez probably wont be starting they'll still be 1B to Sale's 1A. Which if Sale pitches 4 innings a game that gives both of them 2 innings after Sale to get demolished. They need to get off this team now. Sale should have already been up. As soon as he had a few tuneups and was able to go 4 innings, he needed to do the rest of his progression in the Majors. They need him. But hey, maybe they can break more attendance records in Worcester instead. |
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Post by benzinger on Aug 5, 2021 15:21:55 GMT -5
I think the plan(as of now) is to use Aaron Sele as the opener. |
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Post by Canseco on Aug 5, 2021 15:23:46 GMT -5
I think the plan(as of now) is to use Aaron Sele as the opener. Yep. Brian Rose is piggybacking. |
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2021 15:23:55 GMT -5
Duran looks pretty bad. I love him long term, but he is not a help. Even that read on the flyout looked like he was lost.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 5, 2021 15:24:28 GMT -5
I have zero confidence in ERod. I also have zero confidence in Sale being an ace and throwing 90 pitches a start. If this organization has half a brain they aren't going to do that with him. So while you're correct in Richards and Perez probably wont be starting they'll still be 1B to Sale's 1A. Which if Sale pitches 4 innings a game that gives both of them 2 innings after Sale to get demolished. They need to get off this team now. Sale should have already been up. As soon as he had a few tuneups and was able to go 4 innings, he needed to do the rest of his progression in the Majors. They need him. But hey, maybe they can break more attendance records in Worcester instead. He should have started Friday. But why is the expectation that hes going to seamlessly fit into this rotation coming off Tommy John surgery? After DFAing Richards and Perez they need to also bring Seabold up to back up Sale. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 5, 2021 15:28:13 GMT -5
Sale should have already been up. As soon as he had a few tuneups and was able to go 4 innings, he needed to do the rest of his progression in the Majors. They need him. But hey, maybe they can break more attendance records in Worcester instead. He should have started Friday. But why is the expectation that hes going to seamlessly fit into this rotation coming off Tommy John surgery? After DFAing Richards and Perez they need to also bring Seabold up to back up Sale. He doesn’t need to fit into the rotation. If the dude can give us 4-5 innings and only give up a run or two against the Rays that’s a step up from Perez. Anything better than that is gravy. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2021 15:28:42 GMT -5
Be feeling rather swell, but literally everyone knew what problems this team had. Everyone knew Perez and Richards needed to go. Everyone knew that 1B is a void. They could have used a bullpen arm and they got two horrendous pitchers for nothing. Xander, JDM, and Verdugo are all struggling. When they don't hit, the offense goes with them. Schwarber should add some protection to that assuming he's the same coming off injury. Last I checked, Duran is striking out 40% of the time right now. Not great if you're going to maintain a playoff run. Schwarber should be in LF and Duran should be rotating around to give guys time off. They needed a 1B whose negative WAR isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd. There was very little effort to improve this team and not thrilled about seeing another monumental collapse. Still not over chicken and beer. You're being over the top ridiculous. Perez and Richards will not be starting 10 days from now and there will still be 40 something games to play. They're going to have Sale/Eovaldi/E-Rod/Pivetta/Houck. Maybe Seabold makes some September starts. I'd stick with Duran. Giving up after about 40 ABs is ridiculous. They will hopefully get some more help with Arroyo and Brasier return. Will they finish first? Maybe. Probably not, but it's not out of the question. Will they blow both wild card spots? Possibly, but not likely. I think the most likely scenario is that the Yankees play the Sox at Fenway for the Wild Card game. The second most likely scenario is that the Sox play the Yankees at Yankee Stadium for the Wild Car game. Oakland is about 1.5 games better than NY and I don't think they'll hang onto it. Maybe both the Yanks and Jays charge, but they'd both have to kick butt and they both will play each other handing the other losses and damaging the others' chances, and the M's are really over their heads, so I think the Sox and Yanks are most likely the wild cards. If the Sox revert back to driving in runs without needing a HR, then maybe they'll start winning some games. Get Sale, and the others back, and they'll keep winning games. They just have to make sure they drown over the next week. No need to be in full panic mode. It's ok to be annoyed, but this, "They should have sold" stuff is complete nonsense. Perez and Richards have already pitched and lost their games. They will continue to get a couple more turns putting those games at risk. These games still matter. 1.1 IP from Perez. That is really a new low for him. Can they afford to keep them in the rotation for 10 more days? The damage is already being done. I don't trust the continued health of Eovaldi and E-Rod. It has been a borderline miracle and becoming more likely as the season is winding down. We're still assuming Sale doesn't hit a set back and that he will be the same freak of nature that he's always been. If there's a guy who could be that right after TJ, it's him. Still, it's a risk. I never said I'd give up on Duran. I said he should be rotating around to give other guys days off, but his bat is a blight on this year's team (so far) I'm hoping he figures it out and needs to be started regularly. It's not looking great with that k rate, but it's early for him. In a must-win series, I'd like to have Schwarber, Verdugo, and Renfroe in the outfield and a competent 1B. The Jay's have a stacked lineup and Berrios gives them a chance to really catch up. The Yankees are becoming one of baseball's best teams. The rotation is solid and is going to be better with Severino and Kluber if they're pitching like they're capable of. They have a great offense. Oakland is also hanging around too if those 2 teams weren't enough. I think you're under selling Toronto a bit. Their run differential is +111. They should have more wins than they currently have. The Red Sox now get a series in Toronto next. This could be a knock out punch despite all of these struggles, but if they lose or get swept? Watch out below. 2nd WC and getting bounced from that also isn't exactly a success. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 5, 2021 15:29:25 GMT -5
These game day threads (especially when it is a bad game) remind me so much of political message boards - each of us want each of us to react they way we wish them to do, or we ourselves do. But we don't. We each have in common that we love the Red Sox. But we each have things about the game that are important to us as individuals - stats for some, advance stats for others, winning the most important thing for some, just enjoying the game for others. Because they are game day threads, they seem to be working the way they are supposed to - we are all reacting to what we are seeing in our own way.
My last thought on where the team is - and this game...for me it isn't their record, it isn't who is and who is not on the team. I want to see them play to their potential (realizing that there is no way they will - it is impossible to not have off days, or weeks, or longer). So we are teased - this team won a lot of close games, come from behind games - we know most of these players. We know what they are capable of. We know Cora and what he can do to motivate the team...And it is a pretty big let down when so many are just not playing well at the same time - particularly starting pitching, and hitting with runners on base. I love it when they win - I went through decades when they didn't win all that much, and didn't play well. This sort of streak is simply not much fun - but that's only me. YMMV.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 5, 2021 15:33:36 GMT -5
I said this somewhere before, but I wonder how much the 60 game season last year is affecting the Red Sox right now. Maybe it affects different teams at different times, but they seem to be hitting a physical and maybe mental wall. Or maybe that's just what a slump looks like.
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Post by benzinger on Aug 5, 2021 15:34:00 GMT -5
Sale should have already been up. As soon as he had a few tuneups and was able to go 4 innings, he needed to do the rest of his progression in the Majors. They need him. But hey, maybe they can break more attendance records in Worcester instead. He should have started Friday. But why is the expectation that hes going to seamlessly fit into this rotation coming off Tommy John surgery? After DFAing Richards and Perez they need to also bring Seabold up to back up Sale. Fit into the rotation?? He IS the rotation. |
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Post by congusgambler33 on Aug 5, 2021 15:34:49 GMT -5
Wake can be downright annoying with his excuses for Perez
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2021 15:38:22 GMT -5
Sale should have already been up. As soon as he had a few tuneups and was able to go 4 innings, he needed to do the rest of his progression in the Majors. They need him. But hey, maybe they can break more attendance records in Worcester instead. He should have started Friday. But why is the expectation that hes going to seamlessly fit into this rotation coming off Tommy John surgery? After DFAing Richards and Perez they need to also bring Seabold up to back up Sale. I don't expect vintage ace Chris Sale. I expect an improvement over the duration of the season over the crapshow that's Richards and Perez. You have people saying Sale should already be in the rotation. Well, he was dominating over 3 innings at Worcester and then gave up hard contact in the 4th and 5th inning. Tate Matheny made a spectacular catch to save him some runs given up. I translate that as, "He's getting there, but is running out of gas as he's not used to going that far into a game". So to me, it makes sense for him to have his Worcester start on Saturday to see if he can pitch the fourth and fifth innings without too much dropoff. Then you given him a start with the Bosox next week. He's getting there, but he's not there yet. Then I expect him to get to Boston and give them glimpses of his former ace self. I expect him to K guys. I anticipate there'll be hard contact and bad outings. I think there will also be some good outings as the rest of the season progresses and he gets more into the grind of pitching which he hasn't done in awhile. So I think he'll be ok, not an ace, but when all is said and done, better than what Richards or Perez will give them going forward. E-Rod? At least he has the ability to be good. At least he's good every now and then. His results were matching his peripherals for a little while before the migraine issue and the next start, so it is in there. I have more faith in E-Rod than I do Richards and Perez. Pivetta can be good. Pivetta can be bad. Houck can give them four to five good innings. Maybe Seabold helps. Do I expect a championship with that? Hell no, but they're still capable of making the playoffs. They have to hit the damn ball too. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2021 15:42:59 GMT -5
He should have started Friday. But why is the expectation that hes going to seamlessly fit into this rotation coming off Tommy John surgery? After DFAing Richards and Perez they need to also bring Seabold up to back up Sale. Do I expect a championship with that? Hell no, but they're still capable of making the playoffs. They have to hit the damn ball too. See, I actually think that's in the cards. 4-5 good-to-great innings, turn the ball over to Houck or Richards for 2-3 and you have a chance to win every game. If we get the E-Rod we saw yesterday, Eovaldi, Sale for 4 innings and Pivetta, why not? |
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2021 15:46:09 GMT -5
You're being over the top ridiculous. Perez and Richards will not be starting 10 days from now and there will still be 40 something games to play. They're going to have Sale/Eovaldi/E-Rod/Pivetta/Houck. Maybe Seabold makes some September starts. I'd stick with Duran. Giving up after about 40 ABs is ridiculous. They will hopefully get some more help with Arroyo and Brasier return. Will they finish first? Maybe. Probably not, but it's not out of the question. Will they blow both wild card spots? Possibly, but not likely. I think the most likely scenario is that the Yankees play the Sox at Fenway for the Wild Card game. The second most likely scenario is that the Sox play the Yankees at Yankee Stadium for the Wild Car game. Oakland is about 1.5 games better than NY and I don't think they'll hang onto it. Maybe both the Yanks and Jays charge, but they'd both have to kick butt and they both will play each other handing the other losses and damaging the others' chances, and the M's are really over their heads, so I think the Sox and Yanks are most likely the wild cards. If the Sox revert back to driving in runs without needing a HR, then maybe they'll start winning some games. Get Sale, and the others back, and they'll keep winning games. They just have to make sure they drown over the next week. No need to be in full panic mode. It's ok to be annoyed, but this, "They should have sold" stuff is complete nonsense. Perez and Richards have already pitched and lost their games. They will continue to get a couple more turns putting those games at risk. These games still matter. 1.1 IP from Perez. That is really a new low for him. Can they afford to keep them in the rotation for 10 more days? The damage is already being done. I don't trust the continued health of Eovaldi and E-Rod. It has been a borderline miracle and becoming more likely as the season is winding down. We're still assuming Sale doesn't hit a set back and that he will be the same freak of nature that he's always been. If there's a guy who could be that right after TJ, it's him. Still, it's a risk. I never said I'd give up on Duran. I said he should be rotating around to give other guys days off, but his bat is a blight on this year's team (so far) I'm hoping he figures it out and needs to be started regularly. It's not looking great with that k rate, but it's early for him. In a must-win series, I'd like to have Schwarber, Verdugo, and Renfroe in the outfield and a competent 1B. The Jay's have a stacked lineup and Berrios gives them a chance to really catch up. The Yankees are becoming one of baseball's best teams. The rotation is solid and is going to be better with Severino and Kluber if they're pitching like they're capable of. They have a great offense. Oakland is also hanging around too if those 2 teams weren't enough. I think you're under selling Toronto a bit. Their run differential is +111. They should have more wins than they currently have. The Red Sox now get a series in Toronto next. This could be a knock out punch despite all of these struggles, but if they lose or get swept? Watch out below. 2nd WC and getting bounced from that also isn't exactly a success. I have a lot of concerns too about the Sox and the continued health of Eovaldi, E-Rod, etc. But if we're going to play that game, how many days go by before we hear of some Yankee player going on the Covid list? You're complaining a lot about the Sox not fixing their problems. Are you aware of one problem the Yankees did NOT fix? Their bullpen still freaking sucks. How many winnable games did that pen flush? If you were a Yankees fan, how confident would you be in Aroldis Chapman? He has ended their last two post-seasons giving up the long-ball. He has been terrible since the sticky stuff ban. And who else is in that pen you'd trust if you were a Yankees fan? Chad Greene, the guy who blew the game against the Sox one out away from victory? Or Loaisaga who blew a 4-0 8th inning lead against the Sox? When does Britton get injured again? Why didn't then Yankees fix their pen? All they did was get rid of Cessa and bring in some guy from the Pirates that has a track record as bad as Robles. My point isn't to attack the Yankees. They'll be a handful, but it's for you to get a grip, and see that they didn't fix all of their issues either and they have achilles' heels as well. As far as Duran goes, if he sucks to the point he needs to be benched or sat down...eventually Arroyo comes back. They can play him regularly at 2b if need be and stick Kiké Hernandez back in CF. If Duran hits enough than you platoon him Arroyo and shuttle Hernandez back and forth. I think the Sox offense misses Arroyo. He's no star, but he puts the ball in play and he's gotten a lot of big hits this year. He'll be back. |
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 5, 2021 15:49:51 GMT -5
Bloom, Cora & who ever else is involved in making decisions need to get their act together, Sale needs to start 1 of the the games vs Toronto on Saturday. It’s THAT important.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 5, 2021 15:50:50 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. How many sub-.500 teams at the time they've played has this team dropped series to? That's the difference between first place and the WC right there. Four!
Texas (4/29-5/2) KC (6/18-6/20) Philly (7/9-7/11) Detroit (8/3-8/5)
Not sure about your theory though, because for Tampa Bay it's also four:
Boston (4/5-4/7) Texas (4/12-4/15) Toronto (4/23-4/25) Seattle (6/17-6/20)
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 5, 2021 15:50:58 GMT -5
Apparently, Cora went ballistic on the team - his post game presser he was on fire and didn't take questions. One of the worst games of the year - and could be a key turning point one way or another. Last 9 games 2.5 runs per game. Hitting .123 with RISP last 7 games.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2021 15:51:26 GMT -5
Do I expect a championship with that? Hell no, but they're still capable of making the playoffs. They have to hit the damn ball too. See, I actually think that's in the cards. 4-5 good-to-great innings, turn the ball over to Houck or Richards for 2-3 and you have a chance to win every game. If we get the E-Rod we saw yesterday, Eovaldi, Sale for 4 innings and Pivetta, why not? You mean Whitlock? Turning the ball over to Richards only results in frustration. Because I'm sure Cora knows that if he gets to the post-season he can get 3 runs 5 IP out of most of his starters, he'll have a chance to win because he can bridge with Houck and Whitlock and have late inning options with Taylor, Brasier, Ottavino, Barnes. And if he can't use them in the 6th inning he can go with Sawamura or Darwinzon. His starters can be mediocre but they can't bury them. Plus the offense has to get moving again. You can't have Devers, X, and JDM not hitting. If that happens, they have no chance. If they hit and they get enough elsewhere, and maybe Schwarber can help there, then the Sox can score enough runs. In the meanwhile they probably need Houck for the rotation and they way Valdez has looked they can use him in the role I think Houck would best serve in the post-season given you only need 4 starters. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 5, 2021 15:53:15 GMT -5
Apparently, Cora went ballistic on the team - his post game presser he was on fire and didn't take questions. One of the worst games of the year - and could be a key turning point one way or another. Last 9 games 2.5 runs per game. Hitting .123 with RISP last 7 games. Damn, I missed that. What did he say? Can you please give me a synopsis? I think Cora will get through to them. He's a damn good manager and he calls it as he sees it. No sugar coating. He'll build them up but call them out when they need it. |
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