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Post by jmei on Aug 17, 2021 14:28:10 GMT -5
Cora is nuts to pull Houck. He had pretty well mastered the top of the order. OK, if Houck stumbles, then take him out. But this rabid adherence to staying away from a third time thru the order when the starter is in control shows a lack of faith. A more confident manager does not pull pitchers after four good innings. It does not matter whether Whitlock pitched well or not. We’re looking for smart managers, not confident ones, and all of the analysis suggests that a good reliever is better than a tired starter.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 14:29:02 GMT -5
This team is not fun to watch. One team can't lose since the deadline, the other can't win unless they're playing an A ball team. Was really hoping that just by the laws of averages the Sox would win. Beyond frustrating. I can't believe this team has a realistic chance of being out of the WC to the Yankees after how big of a lead they had on them in how late of the season it was. Just unreal.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 17, 2021 14:29:23 GMT -5
2 runs with two innings to go against this pen should be doable, but it certainly doesn't feel that way in this game (and...poof - now one chance remains). Pretty deflating at this point. To have Vazquez put us ahead and then have the pen implode....
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 17, 2021 14:29:26 GMT -5
I don't see us scoring another run in this game And why is that?
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 17, 2021 14:31:01 GMT -5
Just a few days ago Cora left Houck in to face the top of the Rays lineup a third time and he predictably got hit around and it turned the game. It's happened pretty much every time Houck's been left in to face good hitters a third time this year. Going to Whitlock who has been lights out all year, including against the Yankees, when he's well rested and could conceivably get them to or through the last inning was a fine call. Didn't work out.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 14:31:14 GMT -5
Cora is nuts to pull Houck. He had pretty well mastered the top of the order. OK, if Houck stumbles, then take him out. But this rabid adherence to staying away from a third time thru the order when the starter is in control shows a lack of faith. A more confident manager does not pull pitchers after four good innings. It does not matter whether Whitlock pitched well or not. In Houck's last game, he comes out for the 6th inning with a low pitch count facing the top of the order for the 3rd time against the Rays with the score tied 1-1. Gives up single to Lowe, a HR to Franco and a 2B to Cruz, who scored later. Against Lowe and Franco, there were 10 foul balls indicating he's not fooling anyone. The inning does not matter nearly as much as the # of times through order.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 17, 2021 14:31:35 GMT -5
do we blame cora overmanaging on this one or the bullpen's inability to hold it down Why not both? Cora is paid to think. The pitchers throw as well as they can. I can accept (with disappointment) the failure to throw well. I am less accepting of managerial insufficiency. This one, no matter what happens in the rest of the game, is first and foremost on Cora.
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Post by aznpopsical on Aug 17, 2021 14:31:47 GMT -5
I don't see us scoring another run in this game And why is that? because I hate being an optimist
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 17, 2021 14:32:00 GMT -5
This team is not fun to watch. One team can't lose since the deadline, the other can't win unless they're playing an A ball team. Was really hoping that just by the laws of averages the Sox would win. Beyond frustrating. I can't believe this team has a realistic chance of being out of the WC to the Yankees after how big of a lead they had on them in how late of the season it was. Just unreal. Yankees have absolutely been living right since the series in Boston. This shocked me, but they've actually been luckier than the Sox this year. Sucks.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 17, 2021 14:32:11 GMT -5
At this point I don't see JD opting out of his contract but part of me wishes he would. The bat plays most of the time but there will be regression with a guy that shows he isn't a great athlete with his OF play. A bit stiff.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 14:32:14 GMT -5
This team is not fun to watch. One team can't lose since the deadline, the other can't win unless they're playing an A ball team. Was really hoping that just by the laws of averages the Sox would win. Beyond frustrating. I can't believe this team has a realistic chance of being out of the WC to the Yankees after how big of a lead they had on them in how late of the season it was. Just unreal. Really all you're saying is that it's more fun to watch wins than losses.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 17, 2021 14:33:19 GMT -5
Cora is nuts to pull Houck. He had pretty well mastered the top of the order. OK, if Houck stumbles, then take him out. But this rabid adherence to staying away from a third time thru the order when the starter is in control shows a lack of faith. A more confident manager does not pull pitchers after four good innings. It does not matter whether Whitlock pitched well or not. We’re looking for smart managers, not confident ones, and all of the analysis suggests that a good reliever is better than a tired starter. So you’re saying Houck threw 58 pitches and he was tired? And Cora recognized that & that’s why he pulled him?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 14:33:27 GMT -5
This team is not fun to watch. One team can't lose since the deadline, the other can't win unless they're playing an A ball team. Was really hoping that just by the laws of averages the Sox would win. Beyond frustrating. I can't believe this team has a realistic chance of being out of the WC to the Yankees after how big of a lead they had on them in how late of the season it was. Just unreal. Really all you're saying is that it's more fun to watch wins than losses. And?
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 17, 2021 14:33:40 GMT -5
Just a few days ago Cora left Houck in to face the top of the Rays lineup a third time and he predictably got hit around and it turned the game. It's happened pretty much every time Houck's been left in to face good hitters a third time this year. Going to Whitlock who has been lights out all year, including against the Yankees, when he's well rested and could conceivably get them to or through the last inning was a fine call. Didn't work out. Name one more example??? It hasn’t happened. Never been given the chance. Not saying right or wrong. Just saying
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 14:33:58 GMT -5
the walk to Gardner was the worst part of it all....That is on Whitlock, unfortunately.
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Post by orion09 on Aug 17, 2021 14:35:37 GMT -5
Just a few days ago Cora left Houck in to face the top of the Rays lineup a third time and he predictably got hit around and it turned the game. It's happened pretty much every time Houck's been left in to face good hitters a third time this year. Going to Whitlock who has been lights out all year, including against the Yankees, when he's well rested and could conceivably get them to or through the last inning was a fine call. Didn't work out. Agreed. Houck has had trouble 3rd time through, and Whitlock has been nails all year. Whitlock comes in, is struggling with command, walks two guys, so you go to Taylor, who's also been really good this year. Not sure what I would have done differently - it just didn't work out
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 14:35:42 GMT -5
Maybe going to Taylor who only found out he was eligible to pitch right before the game following Whitlock wasn’t the best call to make?
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Post by orion09 on Aug 17, 2021 14:37:34 GMT -5
I don’t know if numbers support this, but it seems like Cora likes rubbing Whitlock in the Yankees’ faces. I had the same feeling too. Whitlock has pitched in 27% of games against other teams, and 43% of games against the Yankees.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 17, 2021 14:38:05 GMT -5
Cora is nuts to pull Houck. He had pretty well mastered the top of the order. OK, if Houck stumbles, then take him out. But this rabid adherence to staying away from a third time thru the order when the starter is in control shows a lack of faith. A more confident manager does not pull pitchers after four good innings. It does not matter whether Whitlock pitched well or not. In Houck's last game, he comes out for the 6th inning with a low pitch count facing the top of the order for the 3rd time against the Rays with the score tied 1-1. Gives up single to Lowe, a HR to Franco and a 2B to Cruz, who scored later. Against Lowe and Franco, there were 10 foul balls indicating he's not fooling anyone. The inning does not matter nearly as much as the # of times through order. I do not agree that Houck is guaranteed to stink the joint out in the fifth inning. And contrary to the comment by jmei, there is no indication that Houck was tired after four innings and a low number of pitches. Let him start the fifth and pull him if he truly has third time through the order issues.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 17, 2021 14:38:14 GMT -5
Great quote from the radio guys just now "this is far from ideal"
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 17, 2021 14:38:21 GMT -5
Leaving Robles in here is the white flag...right?
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cutz
Veteran
Posts: 2,325
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Post by cutz on Aug 17, 2021 14:39:25 GMT -5
Another walk to Bretney Gardner!!
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 14:39:57 GMT -5
Maybe going to Taylor who only found out he was eligible to pitch right before the game following Whitlock wasn’t the best call to make? When things go wrong, for some, it was always the wrong decision. It's quite easy to predict who is going to complain using hindsight. If Whitlock throws 2 scoreless innings, no one complaining about pulling Houck would have said a word.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 17, 2021 14:41:15 GMT -5
Ian was apparently fed up with our grumbling
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2021 14:43:23 GMT -5
The plan was reasonable. The execution has been catastrophic. This is a tough on to swallow.
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