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Post by orion09 on Aug 17, 2021 15:08:56 GMT -5
This team is painful to watch right now
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 17, 2021 15:09:01 GMT -5
Wow. We really did use up a lot of our comeback magic in the first half of the season. That one was tough - we had them where we wanted them and couldn't deliver. A bit on the offense, a bit on the pitching, a bit on the baserunning - and maybe a bit on Cora's pitching management.
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Post by manfred on Aug 17, 2021 15:09:15 GMT -5
Ok, that was terrible. I mean, through 6, that was on pace to be terrible. Then… bases loaded, no out — and nothing? Real salt in the wounds.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2021 15:09:47 GMT -5
Would’ve won if they threw strikes
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2021 15:09:58 GMT -5
That was a choke. The Yankees will sweep the double header. The Sox haven't shown they can beat anybody other than the minor league caliber Orioles the past two weeks. Anybody that's decent has been beating the Red Sox, or the Sox have been beating themselves.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 17, 2021 15:10:02 GMT -5
That loss is all on Cora. You can put up all the stats you want to try & prove otherwise, It’s not an argument that can be won. Your just wrong if you don’t believe Cora blew this game.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 17, 2021 15:10:39 GMT -5
I couldn't be more frustrated with team right now. Their heads are made of stone. Stupid baserunning, walking the bases loaded with a lead, and flailing at a 3-1 pitch out of the zone with the bases drunk in the seventh.
A walk to KKH would have gotten the middle of the order to the plate (barring a Renfroe GIDP).
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2021 15:12:09 GMT -5
Our pen keeps losing big games lately. Our SP has been good enough in the last 2 weeks.
offense can't hit with RISP, especially with 1 or no outs.
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Post by huskies15 on Aug 17, 2021 15:14:53 GMT -5
Poop.
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Post by vokuhila on Aug 17, 2021 15:15:09 GMT -5
It's not just the numbers...it has, for a long time now,been the default answer by the SP brass on why they don't rank Houck higher. When a guy is pitching well and is not tired, you let him start the next inning. Statistics are not anything more than hints. In this case, the stats that should have counted for more was the Houck performance today. Otherwise, the guy does not belong in the rotation. I am/was on the "leave Houck in" side, frankly I wouldn't even have someone warming in the bullpen. The point I'm trying to make is: it was a reasonable decision...i don't have to like it...but there is some sense to it...
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Post by unitspin on Aug 17, 2021 15:17:51 GMT -5
Our pen keeps losing big games lately. Our SP has been good enough in the last 2 weeks. offense can't hit with RISP, especially with 1 or no outs. The starter went 4 innings if you can't get 6ip out of your SP then the fault does not fall on the bullpen. Who have been overused all season. Without Whitlock this team is 5 games out of the WC race right now.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 17, 2021 15:19:08 GMT -5
Blaming Cora here doesn't withstand 5 seconds' thought. What you're essentially saying is "you can't trust Whitlock in that situation," which is ridiculous given his track record. It's an obviously flailing gripe, just pure distilled hindsight wisdom.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2021 15:24:02 GMT -5
Regroup against the rookie tonight, put a hurting on him and split the day
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 17, 2021 15:26:17 GMT -5
Can’t come in and walk people in a close game. Simple as that
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Aug 17, 2021 15:31:11 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I would have liked to see Dalbec get the chance to bat with the bases loaded instead of Shaw. Bobby has been en fuego lately and could have done some real damage there with just one swing.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 17, 2021 15:31:37 GMT -5
Big question we aren't asking - we load the bases with none out. It was right there. The offense completely crapped the bed. Why can't we walk when they give it to us? They didn't even have anyone warming up behind a struggling reliever. Kiké should have walked. But..it was just a bad loss. But what the hell is up with the approach of our hitters with men on base in big moments?
Actually, it was a horrible loss.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2021 15:33:45 GMT -5
I would have kept Houck in because I'm sick of seeing the bullpen having to get 9 outs or more each game because it eventually burns out the bullpen, but the issue is the Sox have very few outings where starters can pitch competitively into the 7th or even 6th inning, so Cora was kind of between a rock and a hard place.
Whitlock is awesome but keeps in mind he let a lead slip against Tampa and he let a lead slip today. But you look at Ottavino has been getting torched. Barnes has been a mess. Taylor has struggled. There's really no safe place for Cora to go at the minute.
I don't see it changing unless the starters consistently start going deeper into games and either they can't do it or Cora doesn't let them. With Houck, last week Cora let him pitch the 6th inning after dominating for 5. I would have, too, but then Houck quickly gave up a 2 run-HR and a double off the wall. It's like no matter which way Cora goes, it's not a good option.
And it's frustrating because the rotation was such a mess and got bailed out by the bullpen so many times, and now the rotation has five guys you can count on for five strong innings and now the bullpen is a smoldering mess.
They could survive it perhaps if they capitalized on their run scoring opportunities, but I don't see how you load the bases with no outs and fail to score even one run. That is ridiculous and speaks to the Sox wilting under pressure as they've been hitting like this in these types of situations far too often the past month.
I'm glad they beat up Baltimore. They're supposed to. This is the time of year Baltimore annually waves the white flag and is easy road kill. Credit to the Sox for doing what they're supposed to do, but if they have any intentions of winning in the post-season they need to get back to being able to beat competitive teams. Hell, at this point, their grip on even making the post-season is tenuous. The saving grace is that the schedule eases up after the Yankees series. They have an easy 10 game stretch. They have to try to survive Tampa for 7 more games, but beyond that the schedule the rest of the way is manageable. They should be able to win 90 games or so but will it be enough? There's no reason to think that Oakland or even the Yankees can't win 90 games or Toronto if they got they finally stopped underachieving, so at this point a certain playoff spot is in certain jeopardy.
And beyond that, blowing a 9.5 game to the MFYs (in just 23 freaking days) is disgusting. Honestly if they do blow it, they don't even deserve to make the playoffs. Yeah, I'm being emotional there, but that's how I feel. They have no business choking away that kind of lead.
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2021 16:01:54 GMT -5
Bases loaded, no outs and the pitcher wasn't close to the plate. how do you failed that?
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Post by incandenza on Aug 17, 2021 16:02:27 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I would have liked to see Dalbec get the chance to bat with the bases loaded instead of Shaw. Bobby has been en fuego lately and could have done some real damage there with just one swing. I think it's debatable whether Shaw is even a better bet than Dalbec against lefties in a vacuum. The fact that he was coming in as a pinch-hitter against a guy throwing 100 makes me lean toward Dalbec even more.
Having said that, Shaw had a pretty good AB and made good contact so I really can't complain too much.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 17, 2021 16:06:14 GMT -5
Lol sounds like a guy that's mad about the money he's lost over this
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Post by incandenza on Aug 17, 2021 16:08:39 GMT -5
Lol sounds like a guy that's mad about the money he's lost over this Could the team not be like, "Listen, we'll give you a $50,000 bonus in next year's contract" or whatever to make it up to him? It's a trivial cost for the team and it's not like they're doing it for the cash savings; it's just to keep the roster spot open.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 17, 2021 16:11:46 GMT -5
Call me crazy, but I would have liked to see Dalbec get the chance to bat with the bases loaded instead of Shaw. Bobby has been en fuego lately and could have done some real damage there with just one swing. I think it's debatable whether Shaw is even a better bet than Dalbec against lefties in a vacuum. The fact that he was coming in as a pinch-hitter against a guy throwing 100 makes me lean toward Dalbec even more.
Having said that, Shaw had a pretty good AB and made good contact so I really can't complain too much.
Cora has earned a lot of second guessing about pulling Houck but it is harder to criticize using Shaw in that situation. I do agree that sticking with Bobby would also have been okay. The Sox did not acquire Shaw to sit on the bench. If Bobby come up and does not succeed, you can bet that Cora would have been criticized for not using Shaw.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 17, 2021 16:13:06 GMT -5
Houck easily could have gotten a full year's service time this season. His initial demotion in April was not exactly an obvious move. I would give him a big fat voluntary raise next year.
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bigmarty58
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Post by bigmarty58 on Aug 17, 2021 16:21:29 GMT -5
Why is the bullpen tired? Answer: Removing your starting pitcher after 58 pitches.
Cora needs to lose the stat sheet and start to use his eyes!
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 17, 2021 16:30:22 GMT -5
In his career, he has a 5.10 xFIP for 3rd time through order. I have to admit that my life as a sports fan gets better the less I hear about expected numbers. That 5.10 xFIP was in all of 15 ABs, I might add. We'd have to check game logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if one game skewed the numbers. Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS.
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