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Post by patford on Aug 17, 2021 16:48:11 GMT -5
It's impossible to beat the Yankees' 10th man when he's on.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 16:52:45 GMT -5
I have to admit that my life as a sports fan gets better the less I hear about expected numbers. That 5.10 xFIP was in all of 15 ABs, I might add. We'd have to check game logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if one game skewed the numbers. Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS. In a vacuum, this was probably the right move. With that said, Whitlock hasn't exactly been perfect as of late either. Maybe you go with Houck until he at least gives up a base runner? I don't hate going to Whitlock here though. It's Whitlock's fault more than anyone for what happened. I'm just surprised everyone is up in arms over Whitlock and not Taylor who failed to record a single out.
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art
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Post by art on Aug 17, 2021 17:00:43 GMT -5
Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS. Whitlock got the first guy out but your point is well taken. Maybe some day Houck will get enough run support where he can stay in the game and build up his stamina. I'm not sure this team's case of run anemia is over.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 17:07:20 GMT -5
And you know, running into those 2 outs with runners on when you only get 21 outs might have been the dagger.
It was an inexcusable, sloppy game.
Montgomery was throwing junk and was staying off the plate that this lineup kept chasing. This should have been an 8-1 laugher.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 17:23:11 GMT -5
I have to admit that my life as a sports fan gets better the less I hear about expected numbers. That 5.10 xFIP was in all of 15 ABs, I might add. We'd have to check game logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if one game skewed the numbers. Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS. Oh, so you never heard about the concern that Houck might not stick as a starter for the last 5 years? What I'd like to look up instead of the game logs is the gameday threads to see how many of the people complaining about today were also complaining about leaving him in for the 3rd time through in his last start. I guarantee it's more than one. Sometimes, it's possible to make correct decisions at the time they were made (without knowing the future) even when they do not work and vice versa. I just do not understand how everyone cannot agree with that, because it's clear that many do not.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 17:25:09 GMT -5
In his career, he has a 5.10 xFIP for 3rd time through order. I have to admit that my life as a sports fan gets better the less I hear about expected numbers. Great, then just continue trying to figure out what is expected in the future using very basic past results. One way is more effective than the other, since we cannot see the future.
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Post by jmei on Aug 17, 2021 17:29:22 GMT -5
I think a fair argument for leaving Houck in would have been “we have to save the bullpen in the long term, we’re using them for too many innings and they’re going to get burned out.” But in terms of just getting the next three batters out? I do not see a credible argument that Houck was better positioned to get through that inning than Whitlock. Whitlock is a better pitcher, and that’s true even ignoring the quite significant times through the order effect. Any complaints about what happened in that inning alone seems like hindsight griping.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 17:38:41 GMT -5
I just ran a marathon and followed that up with 1k pushups. I am ready for tonight ! How 'bout you ??
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 17:41:09 GMT -5
And you know, running into those 2 outs with runners on when you only get 21 outs might have been the dagger. It was an inexcusable, sloppy game. Montgomery was throwing junk and was staying off the plate that this lineup kept chasing. This should have been an 8-1 laugher. I am pretty sure that is how he pitches all the time bro. In an today's baseball world, i am sure it is a big adjustment for hitters. Besides, lefty's who are around the plate have always been sought after commodities in the baseball world for a reason.
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 17, 2021 17:47:26 GMT -5
I like the lineup. EVO better be on. Let’s go boys.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2021 17:51:32 GMT -5
I like the lineup. EVO better be on. Let’s go boys. Eovaldi might or might not be the issue. Might be the bullpen. Or lack of clutch hitting that they've had the past month that reared its ugly head in the 7th inning of game 1.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 17:54:46 GMT -5
I think a fair argument for leaving Houck in would have been “we have to save the bullpen in the long term, we’re using them for too many innings and they’re going to get burned out.” But in terms of just getting the next three batters out? I do not see a credible argument that Houck was better positioned to get through that inning than Whitlock. Whitlock is a better pitcher, and that’s true even ignoring the quite significant times through the order effect. Any complaints about what happened in that inning alone seems like hindsight griping. Just to play Devil's advocate on this, one argument is that he really hadn't given up all that hard contact in the game and hadn't walked anyone up to that point. I had to watch on Gameday, but it appears he had them off balance. Juxtaposed against a pitcher that had been getting hit hard all game or had a real rough last inning, that is kind of the fine point in peoples argument not to make the change. Myself, i have no problem with the move and actually thought it would be made during his last inning.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 18:00:47 GMT -5
Good thing is, I get to watch the game like normal people do tonight. Although Michael Kay is gonna drive me nuts.
Dang it.. Paul O'Neal is there also.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 17, 2021 18:01:34 GMT -5
BIG TIME mental health game tonight, fellas
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 18:02:42 GMT -5
We gotta punk this rook. Can't have it any other way !!!
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 17, 2021 18:03:15 GMT -5
This Gil guy has been good in the majors but he was awful in AAA and the spreadsheets think he is a bum
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 17, 2021 18:03:48 GMT -5
And you know, running into those 2 outs with runners on when you only get 21 outs might have been the dagger. It was an inexcusable, sloppy game. Montgomery was throwing junk and was staying off the plate that this lineup kept chasing. This should have been an 8-1 laugher. I am pretty sure that is how he pitches all the time bro. In an today's baseball world, i am sure it is a big adjustment for hitters. Besides, lefty's who are around the plate have always been sought after commodities in the baseball world for a reason. Yeah, but even the team commentators appeared frustrating with the Sox approach today. Travis Shaw did hit a ball that could have made all this second guessing go away. Unfortunately, the defense was positioned perfectly. They can not afford to drop the next two.
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Post by malynn19 on Aug 17, 2021 18:04:14 GMT -5
That 5.10 xFIP was in all of 15 ABs, I might add. We'd have to check game logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if one game skewed the numbers. Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS. Oh, so you never heard about the concern that Houck might not stick as a starter for the last 5 years? What I'd like to look up instead of the game logs is the gameday threads to see how many of the people complaining about today were also complaining about leaving him in for the 3rd time through in his last start. I guarantee it's more than one. Sometimes, it's possible to make correct decisions at the time they were made (without knowing the future) even when they do not work and vice versa. I just do not understand how everyone cannot agree with that, because it's clear that many do not. I did not complain either way, but Houck pitch 4 innings today vs entering the 6 innings in TB. Another thing to take into account is that, relievers MUST FACE 3 batters before being removed, so if Houck would of allowed the 1st batter or/and the 2nd batter he could be removed without having to face a 3rd.
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Post by jmei on Aug 17, 2021 18:09:45 GMT -5
I think a fair argument for leaving Houck in would have been “we have to save the bullpen in the long term, we’re using them for too many innings and they’re going to get burned out.” But in terms of just getting the next three batters out? I do not see a credible argument that Houck was better positioned to get through that inning than Whitlock. Whitlock is a better pitcher, and that’s true even ignoring the quite significant times through the order effect. Any complaints about what happened in that inning alone seems like hindsight griping. Just to play Devil's advocate on this, one argument is that he really hadn't given up all that hard contact in the game and hadn't walked anyone up to that point. I had to watch on Gameday, but it appears he had them off balance. Juxtaposed against a pitcher that had been getting hit hard all game or had a real rough last inning, that is kind of the fine point in peoples argument not to make the change. Myself, i have no problem with the move and actually thought it would be made during his last inning. I don’t think Houck was particularly sharp today, especially with his command in general but of his slider in particular. Not a lot of swing and miss, for instance.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 17, 2021 18:13:56 GMT -5
That 5.10 xFIP was in all of 15 ABs, I might add. We'd have to check game logs, but I wouldn't be surprised if one game skewed the numbers. Houck had no BBs on the day. His replacement came in and walked the first two he faced, including Gardner and his big .657 OPS. Oh, so you never heard about the concern that Houck might not stick as a starter for the last 5 years?What I'd like to look up instead of the game logs is the gameday threads to see how many of the people complaining about today were also complaining about leaving him in for the 3rd time through in his last start. I guarantee it's more than one. Sometimes, it's possible to make correct decisions at the time they were made (without knowing the future) even when they do not work and vice versa. I just do not understand how everyone cannot agree with that, because it's clear that many do not. Actually, no, because he's only been in the organization for four years. My snark aside, I believe in stats and metrics as much as anyone but sometimes we see a trend and assume it's going to be true across the board. We don't have enough of a sample size to know that Houck can't get through an order a third time around. We do know he wasn't gassed because he had thrown only 58 pitches and his stuff didn't look much different in the fourth, at least to my admittedly untrained eye. A few years ago, we wouldn't have had this discussion because he would have stayed in. Now managers dogmatically take guys out after two times through the order without, it seems to me, looking at the particulars of each situation. I didn't complain about letting Houck face the order a third time in his last start.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 17, 2021 18:14:07 GMT -5
Even though I am one of the people that realize the third time thru the lineup is tough I would have let Houck start the 5th with a short leash. On to game 2 with our stopper Eovoldi on the mound.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 18:14:51 GMT -5
would love to see Rafi just go off.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 17, 2021 18:24:30 GMT -5
not a great throw by KP on that one.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2021 18:25:14 GMT -5
not a great throw by KP on that one. Pretty standard from him, but I’ll take his hit tool and he seems like a good catcher in every other aspect (don’t have the data for that one)
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2021 18:29:45 GMT -5
There are so few stolen bases these days, does it matter much? It's one of the things I miss about baseball.
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