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8/17-8/18 Red Sox @ Yankees Thread
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2021 20:54:16 GMT -5
Their offense needs to breakout. You can't keep wasting good starts from Eoavaldi the past month. Just when the rotation is rounding out, their offense plunges.
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Post by homerdante on Aug 17, 2021 20:54:41 GMT -5
Problem with viewing rest of the season as Draft Position is that we play in the same division as a AAAA team. So we either have to be worse than them significantly like last year, or we're stuck picking in the teens for years we're even marginally better.
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Post by homerdante on Aug 17, 2021 20:56:14 GMT -5
Their offense needs to breakout. You can't keep wasting good starts from Eoavaldi the past month. Just when the rotation is rounding out, their offense plunges. They just blew up on our friendly neighborhood AAAA, Baltimore over the weekend. They had that breakout, and today they went right back to ZERO plate discipline. That's NOT the answer currently. Someone needs to be able to say something in that locker room, but they lost their Pedroia. Who else has the ear of the room?
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 17, 2021 20:57:20 GMT -5
Coming in some thought we caught a break with Rizzo unavailable. Voit winds up being the star of the day. Seems like the MFYs thrive when their stars go down and aren't available in big games. You need your stars to give you something in big spots - our stars are not doing that now. They are being schooled by mediocre pitchers that can barely find the strike zone. Sure they pummeled the Orioles - but (no surprise) the Rays are beating them tonight 10-0.
Hate 7 inning games, but perhaps we were spared 4 more innings of ineptness.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 17, 2021 20:57:51 GMT -5
just gotta think about how good this team is going to be in 2023 Third place behind TB and Toronto. But hey, look at that farm!
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 17, 2021 20:58:53 GMT -5
just gotta think about how good this team is going to be in 2023 After they trade Devers and let Xander walk? They're nuts if they let either one walk. You get more value in a trade than you do by letting a guy walk. That just produces a draft pick and not first rounders like years ago. The priority should be a reasonable contract with each of those guys. If that's not possible, a trade is the next best option. The can't-let-it-happen, BB malpractice, must-be-avoided-at-all-costs option is a massive deal like Miggy got.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Aug 17, 2021 20:59:20 GMT -5
This team has been soft all year against quality competition. I got criticized on here for saying that, but it is what it is.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 17, 2021 21:02:06 GMT -5
This team has been soft all year against quality competition. I got criticized on here for saying that, but it is what it is. Well, not really. We're still 10-5 against the MFY. But yes, when we go against top teams now, it just feels like we don't have a chance. Today may have been the least surprising DH sweep evah.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2021 21:16:21 GMT -5
I'm so pissed right now. In just 23 days they have squandered all of a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees. When they pulled off that miracle comeback that Sunday in July against Loisaga I figured the Yankees were done. Since then the Yankees have lost guys to injuries and the Covid list yet they have caught the Red Sox. The Red Sox have lost their lead to one of the weakest most crippled Yankees squad I can remember. This is a very flawed Yankees team yet the Sox blew the huge lead anyways? What does that say about the Red Sox who got shut out by nobody that would make the 98 Yankees pitching staff?
I'm at the point where the only scenario I can root for is Oakland and Boston as wild cards. The other options are NYY and Boston as wild cards or NYY and Oakland as wild cards. Toronto is better than all 3 teams but I don't know what their issue is.
I'm at the point that I'd rather see the Sox blow the playoff spot than play the Yankees in the wild card, because if they did have the 1 game playoff the Sox would lose to the Yankees. I can live with losing to Oakland, but not NYY.
I have zero faith that this team could win a must win game. They have destroyed any good will built up over three months in a span of 23 days.
At this point I wish this team was more like the 2015 squad, a bad team that improved markedly over the second half and gave lots of hope for a bright future rather than a team that teased, yanked my chain, and collapsed.
This team should be quite embarrased. I expect them to go out and lose tomorrow before maybe getting their act together against weaker competition.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 17, 2021 21:38:20 GMT -5
just gotta think about how good this team is going to be in 2023 After they trade Devers and let Xander walk? Unless Devers wants to stay in Boston and will take a massive discount to do so why would he not ride this out at this point? I have no doubt that’s what his agent is advising him, especially since the Sox have yet to approach him on an extension. He just saw how Mookie played out his string and got paid. And Mookie may have picked up even more if Covid hadn’t made it’s way here. Also, all you “In Chaim I Trust” folks, do you believe Bloom’s “plan” involves having a $350 million player on an 8-10 year deal sucking up 18-22% of the annual payroll, especially when you’ll have Chris Sale pulling $25.6 million, too? As for Xander, he might well be watching Correa and seeing what he gets and then balance that with whatever his agent thinks he’ll get on the open market if he stays healthy til the end of 2022 and opts out.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 17, 2021 21:41:45 GMT -5
For Devers, yes. I'd rather spend extra to get someone in their 27-33 years rather than pay 8M per WAR to someone over 30.
Xander is tougher, paying for his 31-36 years is not a great business decision, but given how much he in engrained in the team, you might want to do it.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 17, 2021 21:48:04 GMT -5
Well, after pondering today's results and the team's play since the all star break, I'm not sure if they are overthinking things, trying to be too cute (poor Houck is being treated like a yoyo - he's been optioned again - as well as the quick pulls). Then we have the acquisitions - Davis, Robles, now Shaw - even Schwarber. It's like they are going for high priced results, but trying to shop at the dollar store. Even that doesn't explain the poor baseball being played (losing two on the bases in game 1, bizarre hitting in game 2 with so much watching of grooved balls go by and either not swinging, or swinging and missing). The starting pitching is actually now a strength - but hitting, baserunning, and a leaky pen is killing us. What the MFY pen did - that's what Ottavino and Barnes should be doing.
I know that this post is all over the place = it's been a long day (and a depressing one) watching the team be largely lifeless in two huge games.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Aug 17, 2021 21:59:49 GMT -5
Is Cora (2nd postgame) really making it sound as if the Yankees pitched well and that's the reason the Sox had a bad day? I missed it, did Gerrit Cole pitch both games?
Just seems the season is slipping away and the manager and the team leadership (players) are just going through the motions - things are OK, we'll get 'em next time. The manager and a lot of players should be very angry right now. You just blew a 9.5 game lead on a team you are competing against in the space of 22 days! That is a pretty hard thing to do. Poor at bats, boneheaded decisions on the base paths - these have been going on all year, but now seemingly with increased frequency. After Detroit, Cora publicly said, "Where we're at right now, we have to get better." Starting pitching may have gotten better but that really remains to be seen over the balance of the schedule. Nothing else has gotten better. What do we do now? I guess see if we can continue to feast on the dregs of the league and hope for the best?
For much of the season, it was easy to be critical of the automatic outs at the bottom of the order since they were terrible. Well some of those guys have been dispatched. It's really the time of the season for the stars of this team to produce in the games that really matter against the teams they have to beat. Xander got a big hit in game 1, but Devers and JD didn't do anything noteworthy at the plate in either game.
You had everything going for you in this series. Day off before, favorable pitching matchups, not facing Cole. Seemingly almost same psychology (all we have to do is show up) has taken over as the the last time they came to Yankee Stadium for a series when the Yankees fielded a spring training lineup due to their Covid out break. I'm almost praying for a rain out tomorrow this time, so they don't suffer the embarrassment of losing to Heaney. Of course there will be a game.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2021 22:31:38 GMT -5
Is Cora (2nd postgame) really making it sound as if the Yankees pitched well and that's the reason the Sox had a bad day? I missed it, did Gerrit Cole pitch both games? Just seems the season is slipping away and the manager and the team leadership (players) are just going through the motions - things are OK, we'll get 'em next time. The manager and a lot of players should be very angry right now. You just blew a 9.5 game lead on a team you are competing against in the space of 22 days! That is a pretty hard thing to do. Poor at bats, boneheaded decisions on the base paths - these have been going on all year, but now seemingly with increased frequency. After Detroit, Cora publicly said, "Where we're at right now, we have to get better." Starting pitching may have gotten better but that really remains to be seen over the balance of the schedule. Nothing else has gotten better. What do we do now? I guess see if we can continue to feast on the dregs of the league and hope for the best? For much of the season, it was easy to be critical of the automatic outs at the bottom of the order since they were terrible. Well some of those guys have been dispatched. It's really the time of the season for the stars of this team to produce in the games that really matter against the teams they have to beat. Xander got a big hit in game 1, but Devers and JD didn't do anything noteworthy at the plate in either game. You had everything going for you in this series. Day off before, favorable pitching matchups, not facing Cole. Seemingly almost same psychology (all we have to do is show up) has taken over as the the last time they came to Yankee Stadium for a series when the Yankees fielded a spring training lineup due to their Covid out break. I'm almost praying for a rain out tomorrow this time, so they don't suffer the embarrassment of losing to Heaney. Of course there will be a game. Don't worry. They will hit Heaney and score some runs but either Pivetta will have a bad outing or the pen will leak again or both. They'll lose 8-6 or something like that. It's just the way it's going.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 17, 2021 22:38:24 GMT -5
Sox have gone 8-14 with a -14 differential since the series win in late July. Yankees have gone 17-5 with a +19 differential. Sox are regressing to the mean (and were due to do so) but NY is progressing further from the mean.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 17, 2021 23:06:30 GMT -5
Seeing the Yanks at 17-5 with only a +19 run difference is agonizing, it's like twisting the dagger after having to deal with how poor the Sox have played. The Yanks aren't a good team, +24 runs on the season somehow translating into +16 in the win column.
On the flip side there's Toronto, +121 runs on the season yet only +8 in the win column.
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Post by station13 on Aug 17, 2021 23:17:24 GMT -5
Yankees play just well enough for the other team to start leaking late. Their offense looks similar to our recent struggles. There's nothing remarkable or convincing about that team.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 18, 2021 0:35:49 GMT -5
Sox Nation is defeatist. It's a bit comical.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 18, 2021 4:55:48 GMT -5
For Devers, yes. I'd rather spend extra to get someone in their 27-33 years rather than pay 8M per WAR to someone over 30. Xander is tougher, paying for his 31-36 years is not a great business decision, but given how much he in engrained in the team, you might want to do it. Boston needs to keep both. Whether its a good decision on the field or not they need to be able to sell tickets at the ball park. Treating this team like the Rays where you get rid of every top player on your roster before they go to market all while charging the highest ticket prices in baseball is not going to go over well.
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 18, 2021 7:15:06 GMT -5
This is the Red Sox I grew up with, choke experts. Get your hopes high and then the big letdown comes. I had said somewhere else but I'll say it here too, the hitting instructors need to go, and I'm not convinced having two hitting coaches really helps because if they are enough different you end up with what we are seeing, indecisive aggression at the plate. If we all close our eyes and listen intently we can here "Taps" being played in the Red Sox Clubhouse, better luck next year.
Thankfully the flooding from Fred and the power outage spared me from being able to watch this mess.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,653
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2021 7:29:31 GMT -5
Smack Heaney around today and I’ll survive
I’m not a big “must-win” guy in mid-august, but they need to get some momentum back in a huge way
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Post by worldbfree on Aug 18, 2021 7:30:11 GMT -5
I'm so pissed right now. In just 23 days they have squandered all of a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees. When they pulled off that miracle comeback that Sunday in July against Loisaga I figured the Yankees were done. Since then the Yankees have lost guys to injuries and the Covid list yet they have caught the Red Sox. The Red Sox have lost their lead to one of the weakest most crippled Yankees squad I can remember. This is a very flawed Yankees team yet the Sox blew the huge lead anyways? What does that say about the Red Sox who got shut out by nobody that would make the 98 Yankees pitching staff? I'm at the point where the only scenario I can root for is Oakland and Boston as wild cards. The other options are NYY and Boston as wild cards or NYY and Oakland as wild cards. Toronto is better than all 3 teams but I don't know what their issue is. I'm at the point that I'd rather see the Sox blow the playoff spot than play the Yankees in the wild card, because if they did have the 1 game playoff the Sox would lose to the Yankees. I can live with losing to Oakland, but not NYY. I have zero faith that this team could win a must win game. They have destroyed any good will built up over three months in a span of 23 days. At this point I wish this team was more like the 2015 squad, a bad team that improved markedly over the second half and gave lots of hope for a bright future rather than a team that teased, yanked my chain, and collapsed. This team should be quite embarrased. I expect them to go out and lose tomorrow before maybe getting their act together against weaker competition. The Yankees just took a series from the White Sox and are 15-4 in their last 19 games. They are not that flawed. I think they will be extremely dangerous in the playoffs.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 18, 2021 7:54:43 GMT -5
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patford
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Post by patford on Aug 18, 2021 8:29:59 GMT -5
I'm so pissed right now. In just 23 days they have squandered all of a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees. When they pulled off that miracle comeback that Sunday in July against Loisaga I figured the Yankees were done. Since then the Yankees have lost guys to injuries and the Covid list yet they have caught the Red Sox. The Red Sox have lost their lead to one of the weakest most crippled Yankees squad I can remember. This is a very flawed Yankees team yet the Sox blew the huge lead anyways? What does that say about the Red Sox who got shut out by nobody that would make the 98 Yankees pitching staff? I'm at the point where the only scenario I can root for is Oakland and Boston as wild cards. The other options are NYY and Boston as wild cards or NYY and Oakland as wild cards. Toronto is better than all 3 teams but I don't know what their issue is. I'm at the point that I'd rather see the Sox blow the playoff spot than play the Yankees in the wild card, because if they did have the 1 game playoff the Sox would lose to the Yankees. I can live with losing to Oakland, but not NYY. I have zero faith that this team could win a must win game. They have destroyed any good will built up over three months in a span of 23 days. At this point I wish this team was more like the 2015 squad, a bad team that improved markedly over the second half and gave lots of hope for a bright future rather than a team that teased, yanked my chain, and collapsed. This team should be quite embarrased. I expect them to go out and lose tomorrow before maybe getting their act together against weaker competition. The Yankees just took a series from the White Sox and are 15-4 in their last 19 games. They are not that flawed. I think they will be extremely dangerous in the playoffs. The Yankees' 10th man is the most dominant factor in MLB.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 8:43:48 GMT -5
The Yankees just took a series from the White Sox and are 15-4 in their last 19 games. They are not that flawed. I think they will be extremely dangerous in the playoffs. The Yankees' 10th man is the most dominant factor in MLB. Pat, that's a lame a$$ excuse. I remember a game where Barnes was in big trouble against the Yankees and the umpire called a strike on a ball 4 that changed the outcome of the game. Stop making excusing for a team that blew a 9.5 game lead. Do you think when the Sox were 7-0 or 10-3 against the Yankees the boys in blue were in the bag for the Yankees? C'mon. The Sox are losing because they overagressively swing at a lot of bad pitches and let a lot of hittable pitches go by. They get themselves out and the Sox pitchers don't throw enough strikes. This is reflecting in their inability to get key hits in clutch situations. Basically the Sox are pressing and getting themselves out. They don't need the umpires' help to do that. I agree with Jim Rice on this. They're swinging big. I could see that in the 9th. Short strokes for the first three batters following by 3 guys trying to hit a grand slam.
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