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8/17-8/18 Red Sox @ Yankees Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 8:50:29 GMT -5
Sox Nation is defeatist. It's a bit comical. Glad you find the Sox collapse and blowing a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees and blowing the division lead over Tampa funny. I guess I don't share that sense of humor. Want a less defeatist fan base? Don't lose a huge lead over your most hated rival?
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 18, 2021 9:29:08 GMT -5
Sox Nation is defeatist. It's a bit comical. Glad you find the Sox collapse and blowing a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees and blowing the division lead over Tampa funny. I guess I don't share that sense of humor. Want a less defeatist fan base? Don't lose a huge lead over your most hated rival? I think people tend to falsey equate comical with happy. We all mourn in our own way, and our team doesn't look too great right now.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 10:07:25 GMT -5
I'm so pissed right now. In just 23 days they have squandered all of a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees. When they pulled off that miracle comeback that Sunday in July against Loisaga I figured the Yankees were done. Since then the Yankees have lost guys to injuries and the Covid list yet they have caught the Red Sox. The Red Sox have lost their lead to one of the weakest most crippled Yankees squad I can remember. This is a very flawed Yankees team yet the Sox blew the huge lead anyways? What does that say about the Red Sox who got shut out by nobody that would make the 98 Yankees pitching staff? I'm at the point where the only scenario I can root for is Oakland and Boston as wild cards. The other options are NYY and Boston as wild cards or NYY and Oakland as wild cards. Toronto is better than all 3 teams but I don't know what their issue is. I'm at the point that I'd rather see the Sox blow the playoff spot than play the Yankees in the wild card, because if they did have the 1 game playoff the Sox would lose to the Yankees. I can live with losing to Oakland, but not NYY. I have zero faith that this team could win a must win game. They have destroyed any good will built up over three months in a span of 23 days. At this point I wish this team was more like the 2015 squad, a bad team that improved markedly over the second half and gave lots of hope for a bright future rather than a team that teased, yanked my chain, and collapsed. This team should be quite embarrased. I expect them to go out and lose tomorrow before maybe getting their act together against weaker competition. The Yankees just took a series from the White Sox and are 15-4 in their last 19 games. They are not that flawed. I think they will be extremely dangerous in the playoffs. I disagree. This is a very flawed Yankees team, probably the least intimidating team they've put together. Maybe that's not fair. If they had their entire team intact it could be a strong team, but they haven't been intact like ever this season. They have had lineups that I never seen them have before, something out of AAA. They have been hit as hard as any team by Covid. They have had their share of injuries. Their rotation is not scary. Yesterday the Sox got shut down by a rookie with not-so-good walk numbers in the minors. A more patient team exploits him, so the Sox were a good matchup for him. Only Cole is a stud in that rotation. The rest of it is patchwork. This is not Pettite/Wells/Cone, etc. The pen has blown so many leads in the most devastating fashion and their closer even when healthy is no Mariano Rivera. Aroldis Chapman is a misadventure waiting to happen and they have a bunch of anonymous setup guys. This team had to go to some kid in an extra inning game who threw 4 wild pitches. Their lineup has one or two guys with decent hit tools in Lemaheiux and Judge. The rest of the team can be pitched to. This is not really a murderer's row lineup. Usually I'm a guy who is in dread of the Yankees' annual excellence and I think that gets underplayed by dismissive Red Sox fans not wanting to be honest about it, but in 2021 this is not the case. The Yankees truly are a very flawed team and their pythag record is worse than the Sox. They have been damn lucky this year. They are quite beatable. This is why I find it completely infuriating that the Sox could lose a 10.5 game lead (their lead on July 5th) over this very unimpressive Yankees team. This isn't the 1978 squad who was dealing with a ton of injuries and suddenly got healthy and played to their ability. This is, by Yankees standards, a very mediocre squad. Yet they're like a swarm of ants. You kill a bunch of them as they march toward you and suddenly there are even more ants and they're still marching forward somehow. That's the Yankees this year. They have been punched in the face several times and yet they keep stumbling forward. I hope the Sox get some of that because they're taking a punch in the face and they haven't really gotten up yet and I don't know that they're going to march forward. Their easy schedule should allow them to, but we'll see. I really do believe we're in for a wild card game between the Sox and Yanks, and at this point I no longer trust the Sox to win a must win game. Hell, I don't even really trust them to make the playoffs altogether, although I do think it's more likely than not, especially with what unfortunately happened last night to Chris Bassitt.
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2021 10:11:31 GMT -5
The Yankees are flawed, and they were bad early. But they are peaking, and if they line up Cole, Taillon, Gil, and Montgomery, their pitching looks better than it has in a while.
I wouldn’t want to play them in the playoffs. They aren’t as good on paper as some of the super teams, but if they make the WC (or, God forbid, overtake the Rays), I will be very nervous until someone knocks them out.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,653
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2021 10:20:11 GMT -5
Gil didn’t really impress me all that much. I saw a good fastball and a lot of bad at-bats that I don’t think he necessarily forced
That said Cole/Taillon/Montgomery is probably good enough to win at least a little bit in the playoffs
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 18, 2021 10:23:14 GMT -5
I know losses happen, slumps happen, mental mistakes happen. What the Sox team has rolled out for much of the second half seems to run deeper than that - skilled hitters looking awful (JD, lots of Xander's ABs - is that wrist bothering him? - Raffi and others swinging for the fences or lunging for stuff nowhere near the plate), our pen not firing with close down stuff like they did in the first half (poor starters leading to burn out?). Mental lapses on the basepaths (this seems to be a trait of Cora teams - lots of sloppy baserunning). The situational hitting is pretty abysmal - no plate discipline.
Yesterday absolutely sucked, but it was (except the Orioles series), just more of the second half same. Something is amiss with this particular team - for whatever reason, they just don't seem to "have it".
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 10:26:41 GMT -5
Gil didn’t really impress me all that much. I saw a good fastball and a lot of bad at-bats that I don’t think he necessarily forced That said Cole/Taillon/Montgomery is probably good enough to win at least a little bit in the playoffs I agree. A more patient offense exposes his track record of walking too many guys. I could be wrong but I don't see a star there with Gil. As Cora said, the Sox had a lot of "empty at bats". They are pressing, especially with runners on base. They don't normally take their walks so they're aggressively trying to overcompensate.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2021 10:53:29 GMT -5
How far "behind" are the Red Sox from a protected draft pick?
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Post by manfred on Aug 18, 2021 11:02:56 GMT -5
Gil didn’t really impress me all that much. I saw a good fastball and a lot of bad at-bats that I don’t think he necessarily forced That said Cole/Taillon/Montgomery is probably good enough to win at least a little bit in the playoffs I agree. A more patient offense exposes his track record of walking too many guys. I could be wrong but I don't see a star there with Gil. As Cora said, the Sox had a lot of "empty at bats". They are pressing, especially with runners on base. They don't normally take their walks so they're aggressively trying to overcompensate. I mean…. He’s had three starts and hasn’t given up a run. Yeah, the Sox were bad, but as a 4-5 inning starter, he looks pretty good. Or in the playoffs as their Whitlock.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2021 11:03:38 GMT -5
How far "behind" are the Red Sox from a protected draft pick? The Red Sox are tied for the seventh best record in baseball and are 14 games ahead of the team with the 10th worst record (the Rockies). I know everyone is a little tight recently, but c’mon man, this is a dumb question.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 18, 2021 11:15:31 GMT -5
Down in the dumps we are. As I mentioned a while back, the "luck" thing has turned. There's talent and I'd like to think they'll come through this bad stretch at some point. It hasn't been about the starters that's for sure.
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 18, 2021 11:27:46 GMT -5
Sox Nation is defeatist. It's a bit comical. Glad you find the Sox collapse and blowing a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees and blowing the division lead over Tampa funny. I guess I don't share that sense of humor. Want a less defeatist fan base? Don't lose a huge lead over your most hated rival? I must be getting old... I just don't take the losses like I used to. And whether its to the Yankees or not... If the Sox don't win, nothing else really matters since I won't watch non-Boston teams. Theres a time this streak would have really changed my mood.
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Post by worldbfree on Aug 18, 2021 11:29:36 GMT -5
Gil didn’t really impress me all that much. I saw a good fastball and a lot of bad at-bats that I don’t think he necessarily forced That said Cole/Taillon/Montgomery is probably good enough to win at least a little bit in the playoffs I agree. A more patient offense exposes his track record of walking too many guys. I could be wrong but I don't see a star there with Gil. As Cora said, the Sox had a lot of "empty at bats". They are pressing, especially with runners on base. They don't normally take their walks so they're aggressively trying to overcompensate. If the Yanks do damage in the playoffs, I hope you rethink your opinion. The Red Sox are playing poorly, but I expect the Yanks to keep right on winning. It won’t surprise me if they catch Tampa.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 11:35:32 GMT -5
Glad you find the Sox collapse and blowing a 9.5 game lead over the Yankees and blowing the division lead over Tampa funny. I guess I don't share that sense of humor. Want a less defeatist fan base? Don't lose a huge lead over your most hated rival? I must be getting old... I just don't take the losses like I used to. And whether its to the Yankees or not... If the Sox don't win, nothing else really matters since I won't watch non-Boston teams. Theres a time this streak would have really changed my mood. There's losing and there's losing to the Yankees, which are kind of two separate things for me. If they blew the lead to the Jays, sure I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but to the Yankees, it's kind of a different animal for me.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 11:41:20 GMT -5
I agree. A more patient offense exposes his track record of walking too many guys. I could be wrong but I don't see a star there with Gil. As Cora said, the Sox had a lot of "empty at bats". They are pressing, especially with runners on base. They don't normally take their walks so they're aggressively trying to overcompensate. If the Yanks do damage in the playoffs, I hope you rethink your opinion. The Red Sox are playing poorly, but I expect the Yanks to keep right on winning. It won’t surprise me if they catch Tampa. No, it wouldn't change my tune much. I've seen better Yankee teams before and I anticipate we'll see scarier Yankee teams in the near future. I think this is a flawed Yankee team. Doesn't mean they can't win. The 2006 Cardinals marched right through the playoffs despite an 83-79 regular season record. Those SF Giants teams that won thrice in 5 years weren't overly intimidating. So it can happen. On paper the Yankees aren't much better than the Red Sox, if they are at all and that's debatable. I won't rule out the Yankees catching Tampa but I doubt they do. They're playing over their heads, just barely winning. I don't expect them to go out and finish the season 30-10 or something like that. That's the pace they're playing at. They'll cool off somewhat, but I expect them, at this point, to finish ahead of the Red Sox. I expect the Wild Card game to be in NY, whether they're facing Oakland or Boston. Honestly, Toronto should be hosting. They should be better than both NY and Boston, but can't seem to consistently win.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 18, 2021 11:47:45 GMT -5
How far "behind" are the Red Sox from a protected draft pick? The Red Sox are tied for the seventh best record in baseball and are 14 games ahead of the team with the 10th worst record (the Rockies). I know everyone is a little tight recently, but c’mon man, this is a dumb question. I thought 9.5 was safe, and the Sox blew that in less than a month. But with 14 over 10th (was actually curious at the gap), that doesn't seem feasible either.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 18, 2021 12:00:19 GMT -5
I CAN’T BELIEVE THE SOX COULDN’T GET SIGNIFICANT AT BATS OFF A GUY NAMED AFTER FISH PARTS!
That was my most desperate and disgusted comment while watching.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 18, 2021 12:11:02 GMT -5
The Red Sox are tied for the seventh best record in baseball and are 14 games ahead of the team with the 10th worst record (the Rockies). I know everyone is a little tight recently, but c’mon man, this is a dumb question. I thought 9.5 was safe, and the Sox blew that in less than a month. But with 14 over 10th (was actually curious at the gap), that doesn't seem feasible either. The time to suck was last season and they got something real out of it, Marcelo Mayer. Losing now accomplishes nothing but aggravation.
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Post by unitspin on Aug 18, 2021 12:13:27 GMT -5
The Yankees are flawed, and they were bad early. But they are peaking, and if they line up Cole, Taillon, Gil, and Montgomery, their pitching looks better than it has in a while. I wouldn’t want to play them in the playoffs. They aren’t as good on paper as some of the super teams, but if they make the WC (or, God forbid, overtake the Rays), I will be very nervous until someone knocks them out. With kluber coming back as well.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 18, 2021 12:15:07 GMT -5
I thought 9.5 was safe, and the Sox blew that in less than a month. But with 14 over 10th (was actually curious at the gap), that doesn't seem feasible either. The time to suck was last season and they got something real out of it, Marcelo Mayer. Losing now accomplishes nothing but aggravation. tenor.com/view/all-part-of-the-plan-joker-heath-ledger-gif-15834621
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 18, 2021 12:46:46 GMT -5
I must be getting old... I just don't take the losses like I used to. And whether its to the Yankees or not... If the Sox don't win, nothing else really matters since I won't watch non-Boston teams. Theres a time this streak would have really changed my mood. There's losing and there's losing to the Yankees, which are kind of two separate things for me. If they blew the lead to the Jays, sure I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but to the Yankees, it's kind of a different animal for me. Ownership gave up on this team at the deadline instead of addressing the glaring pitching issues and the Sox have responded in kind. The Yankees invested in their team at the deadline and they have responded accordingly. Rays bought at the deadline and Cruz has been pretty damn solid for them in the power department. Sucks but was expected. Hopefully they make some moves in the offseason, move Nate for prospects and spend.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 18, 2021 13:13:38 GMT -5
I wonder what the best draft pick we can get would be if we started tanking now.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 18, 2021 13:21:28 GMT -5
Ownership gave up on this team at the deadline instead of addressing the glaring pitching issues and the Sox have responded in kind. The Yankees invested in their team at the deadline and they have responded accordingly. Rays bought at the deadline and Cruz has been pretty damn solid for them in the power department. Sucks but was expected. Hopefully they make some moves in the offseason, move Nate for prospects and spend. Given the price of what was paid you can't really blame Boston for staying still. The Blue Jays lost two top prospects, the Yankees lost 6-7 of their top 30 prospects, and the Rays gave up two prospects, one of which being comparable to Aldo Ramirez and one being rated higher. It's not that they were necessarily bad trades, (though some of the acquisitions aren't performing well to date), but that's a lot to give up for an outside chance at making the playoffs which comes with an outside chance to win the World Series. Regardless of who wins, and it's just as likely to not be a team from our division at all, the Red Sox are out a lot less than most of the other teams. For such a crapshoot I am happy that they didn't give up a top 5 prospect, especially for a rental or a reliever.
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2021 13:25:56 GMT -5
headdesk.gif
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 18, 2021 13:30:36 GMT -5
At the time I felt like it was Chaim playing it as the least he could do to support an overachieving team who probably wasn't going to win this year. And I was okay with it. This recent stretch is just a lot of bad timing and regression to the mean. And having a shiny Rizzo sitting on the Covid list wasn't going to change it.
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