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2022 MLB Draft
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Post by alan on Jul 11, 2022 3:02:17 GMT -5
Anyone know if FG is doing a draft week this year? Their prospect stuff have been coming out slower, I assume it’s because Kevin Goldstein left. Like they haven’t done a mock draft yet but last year they did like 4 or 5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 11, 2022 8:30:57 GMT -5
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Post by southcoastghost on Jul 11, 2022 8:34:52 GMT -5
Anyone know if FG is doing a draft week this year? Their prospect stuff have been coming out slower, I assume it’s because Kevin Goldstein left. Like they haven’t done a mock draft yet but last year they did like 4 or 5 I would guess they do something, including updated rankings. Longenhagen was on Law's podcast last week and mentioned working on mock stuff. The last team Top Prospects list just came out today so I bet some draft content comes out this week.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 11, 2022 8:46:30 GMT -5
Since it's pick 24, it's hard for me to be too critical of it, and it all depends who is still on the board at that point. That said, I am bearish on Rocker based on what we've found out about him via mlbpipeline the last few weeks
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 11, 2022 9:08:02 GMT -5
Rocker would certainly be the most entertaining pick
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Post by Guidas on Jul 11, 2022 9:46:27 GMT -5
I'd be great with Rocker if his medicals check-out. He's a potential #2 and those tagged with that are not often available to the Sox. If not, and if Whisenhunt is still there, he's my other first-round go-to as he projects to a #3/4 (better than our usual #5/6/reliever pick-ups). But best player available is always a great choice.
Also, I know much of this mock is based on whatever intel Law's been getting from scouts and execs, but I find it mystifying that teams would let Collier fall all the way down to 8. The guy is 17 and hitting well at one of the best JuCos in the nation. Seems like a major upside "Guy," and whoever does get him will be elated.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,607
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Post by nomar on Jul 11, 2022 9:54:57 GMT -5
Have to assume the org knows best regarding Rocker’s health.
Rocker would be a nice add, especially if Gilbert, Delauter, and Williams are all off the table. Beck, Beavers, and Jones all have too many red flags for my liking. Kumar’s health is a risk but he’s probably the closest player to the majors and we all know his ceiling is high.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 11, 2022 9:56:23 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 11, 2022 10:01:07 GMT -5
Tweets re the Waters trade tell us a bit about the talent in that 41 range.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 11, 2022 10:02:42 GMT -5
Now they can take Fabian there and hope his hit tool develops unlike Waters
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Post by jaffinator on Jul 11, 2022 10:15:08 GMT -5
Have to assume the org knows best regarding Rocker’s health. Rocker would be a nice add, especially if Gilbert, Delauter, and Williams are all off the table. Beck, Beavers, and Jones all have too many red flags for my liking. Kumar’s health is a risk but he’s probably the closest player to the majors and we all know his ceiling is high. Yeah, ultimately no one here is in a position to critique if the Sox pick Rocker at 24. If it comes out later that the medicals weren't actually in order, then we can go in.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 11, 2022 10:22:16 GMT -5
Am I wrong to view Bloom's philosophy as being wary of pitching, both in long-term commitments (ERod vs. short term gambles- Paxton, Wacha, Hill), in drafting (no high-round picks), and international signings (only one pitcher, Paez, above $300 bonus). On MBL level, Tampa always traded pitchers nearing long term free agency commitments (Archer, Cobb, Odrizzi and post Bloom, but informative nonetheless, Snell, ) If so, why would we expect him to go big on Rocker?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 11, 2022 10:27:40 GMT -5
Am I wrong to view Bloom's philosophy as being wary of pitching, both in long-term commitments (ERod vs. short term gambles- Paxton, Wacha, Hill), in drafting (no high-round picks), and international signings (only one pitcher, Paez, above $300 bonus). On MBL level, Tampa always traded pitchers nearing long term free agency commitments (Archer, and post Bloom, but informative nonetheless, Snell, ) If so, why would we expect him to go big on Rocker? Well, IF you believe Law (not saying we should or shouldn't but IF) then Sox were in until Mayer happened to fall in his lap. So in that case, the pick wouldn't reflect anything about the philosophy. The top ranked prospect became available so all prior philosophy may have flown out the window.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 11, 2022 10:27:45 GMT -5
Someone might consider Rocker a "risky" pick at #24, but I think that underestimates how risky any #24 pick is going to be.
In the history of the draft through 2015, only 8 out of 51 #24 picks ended up having a 10-WAR career. In fact, only those 8 had so much as a 3-WAR career. It's a 16% hit rate.
So what are the odds that Kumar's career gets entirely derailed by injury? If you think it's 50%, but that he has a 40% chance of adding any significant value at all as a major leaguer conditional on staying healthy, then you'd give him a 20% chance of panning out. That makes him a safe pick, relative to the typical #24.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 11, 2022 10:36:28 GMT -5
Someone might consider Rocker a "risky" pick at #24, but I think that underestimates how risky any #24 pick is going to be. In the history of the draft through 2015, only 8 out of 51 #24 picks ended up having a 10-WAR career. In fact, only those 8 had so much as a 3-WAR career. It's a 16% hit rate. So what are the odds that Kumar's career gets entirely derailed by injury? If you think it's 50%, but that he has a 40% chance of adding any significant value at all as a major leaguer conditional on staying healthy, then you'd give him a 20% chance of panning out. That makes him a safe pick, relative to the typical #24.
Rocker's a really wonderful example of a player who has been known for so long that people know about the blemishes, rather than those guys who folks have barely heard of and can be viewed as a blank slate. It's very hard to think that Rocker wouldn't be the best player available at #24 (though if Lesko falls there, he'd be in the discussion too). If the money isn't right then maybe it makes sense to take a lower bonus guy, sure. But in terms of talent, Rocker very clearly offers greater reward than your usual #24 pick without really any additional risk. For example, Drew Gilbert is a guy I'd be happy with at #24. I would not pay Rocker like $2 million more than I'd pay Gilbert, if that's what it took. But in terms of how I'd rank them, talent-wise, I don't think it's that close that Rocker is absolutely on a tier above.
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Post by southcoastghost on Jul 11, 2022 10:57:07 GMT -5
I understand the talent level, but shoulder injuries make me nervous, especially since he's already had surgery. Maybe that's outdated thinking though, and I should just trust the Sox medical staff (if Rocker's the pick).
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Post by jaffinator on Jul 11, 2022 14:51:06 GMT -5
Someone might consider Rocker a "risky" pick at #24, but I think that underestimates how risky any #24 pick is going to be.
In the history of the draft through 2015, only 8 out of 51 #24 picks ended up having a 10-WAR career. In fact, only those 8 had so much as a 3-WAR career. It's a 16% hit rate.
So what are the odds that Kumar's career gets entirely derailed by injury? If you think it's 50%, but that he has a 40% chance of adding any significant value at all as a major leaguer conditional on staying healthy, then you'd give him a 20% chance of panning out. That makes him a safe pick, relative to the typical #24.
So I agree with the general premise - that Kumar Rocker is a much safer pick than perhaps some realize, but this gets close to making the exact same mistake that it's pointing out. According to that same link, 16 #10 overall picks (where Rocker was drafted last season) through 2015 had a 10 WAR career. If you claim a 50% risk of a career ending injury, then he would be exactly on value at 24 overall (twice the chance of a "hit" according to the first definition offered).
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Post by 1toolplayer on Jul 11, 2022 15:01:59 GMT -5
Tweets re the Waters trade tell us a bit about the talent in that 41 range. This was my reasoning for wanting them to bypass college OF at 24, because I thought there would similar players and ceilings at 41. I do think the depth in this draft is much larger than last year's, and the college bats are the big reason why. Also, the Waters needing a change of scenery comment is a little weird, you typically hear that about established players. Specific to Waters, the concerns that came with him on draft day, have been the ones that stunted his growth. I think it was Law who said very early after his draft summer that he thought and scouts too "there is no way he's a big leaguer". That being said, I do think KC is a nice landing spot for him though. Also sort of funny how he was the OF prospect, but then got passed by Pache, who Atlanta also moved, but its nbd bc they had Michael Harris who passed both of them.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 11, 2022 15:25:58 GMT -5
That's a low stakes trade, but I think the Royals probably got back like double the value of the 35th pick. The $2.2 million the Braves still have to spend is a significant cost relative to the historic payoff from #35 picks.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 11, 2022 16:18:06 GMT -5
Might be good to remind everyone that, as much as we love all our prospects, since 2000, in the first round or first round supplementals, the Red Sox have only selected 5 players who have had a 10.0 MLB bWAR or better.
This is not a relatively high bar, either. Old friend David Murphy just missed the cut with a 9.9.
They are (so far): Jacoby Ellsbury 31.2 Jackie Bradley, Jr. 17.4* Clay Buchholz 16.8 Jed Lowrie 16.0* Andrew Benintendi 14.9*
Round 2 since 2000 has even fewer: Dustin Pedroia 51.9 Jon Lester 43.4 Justin Masterson 10.0
The next closest is Brandon Workman at 2.4
Bottom line: it's a big ol crapshoot.
* Active.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jul 11, 2022 16:53:22 GMT -5
Tweets re the Waters trade tell us a bit about the talent in that 41 range. This was my reasoning for wanting them to bypass college OF at 24, because I thought there would similar players and ceilings at 41. I do think the depth in this draft is much larger than last year's, and the college bats are the big reason why. Also, the Waters needing a change of scenery comment is a little weird, you typically hear that about established players. Specific to Waters, the concerns that came with him on draft day, have been the ones that stunted his growth. I think it was Law who said very early after his draft summer that he thought and scouts too "there is no way he's a big leaguer". That being said, I do think KC is a nice landing spot for him though. Also sort of funny how he was the OF prospect, but then got passed by Pache, who Atlanta also moved, but its nbd bc they had Michael Harris who passed both of them. Was in Atlanta earlier today and they said the change of scenery was necessary for Waters after Michael Harris took control over the Braves CF spot. Also Braves need to restock their farm system this draft.
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Post by prospectlove on Jul 11, 2022 17:16:58 GMT -5
Am I wrong to view Bloom's philosophy as being wary of pitching, both in long-term commitments (ERod vs. short term gambles- Paxton, Wacha, Hill), in drafting (no high-round picks), and international signings (only one pitcher, Paez, above $300 bonus). On MBL level, Tampa always traded pitchers nearing long term free agency commitments (Archer, Cobb, Odrizzi and post Bloom, but informative nonetheless, Snell, ) If so, why would we expect him to go big on Rocker? I would tend to agree with you on Bloom's philosophy. I also wonder if he will have to change his philosophy in a major market team that not only expects to contend every year, but after awhile the fanbase won't accept just contending (they will want to WIN). In so much as the above is true, as some point Bloom will have to take educated "risks" with money to pay for a players 2/3 first years of a say 5 year contract that will have the last 2 as eh maybe not so much good. Will that be with hitters (and which one) or will it be with pitchers? How will he value pitchers? (will we go cheap all the way through or will he pay up for an ace or potential ace). If you follow the dodgers way of doing things, it seems like pitching is paid for both in the draft and free agency/trades by targeting and paying up for the elites. Walker Buehler was coming off Tommy John but had ace upside and they paid up later in the draft (Rocker thoughts). Trades have been made to target aces or signings of short term elite pitchers (Scherzer and well that other guy I won't mention who was on Indians and Reds signed to short deal). (you could argue Paxton was this type of signing). I tend to believe THIS might be the way we go with pitching, which I actually like (and I worry about Rocker). Side note- something not mentioned is that Rocker didn't sign with Mets because they wanted to give him slot value last year after medicals. Slot value last year is much higher than he would obtain at slot value with Red Sox at this pick. So...is he signable at slot and do we want him at a number that might be vastily over slot? I haven't heard what he's asking for or anything, just kinda using reasoning to point out some potential problem areas with a Kumar Rocker pick at that point. (essentially is he worth the 1st and 2nd round picks if he's asking for that kind of bonus expense).
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Post by incandenza on Jul 11, 2022 17:30:55 GMT -5
Am I wrong to view Bloom's philosophy as being wary of pitching, both in long-term commitments (ERod vs. short term gambles- Paxton, Wacha, Hill), in drafting (no high-round picks), and international signings (only one pitcher, Paez, above $300 bonus). On MBL level, Tampa always traded pitchers nearing long term free agency commitments (Archer, Cobb, Odrizzi and post Bloom, but informative nonetheless, Snell, ) If so, why would we expect him to go big on Rocker? I would tend to agree with you on Bloom's philosophy. I also wonder if he will have to change his philosophy in a major market team that not only expects to contend every year, but after awhile the fanbase won't accept just contending (they will want to WIN). In so much as the above is true, as some point Bloom will have to take educated "risks" with money to pay for a players 2/3 first years of a say 5 year contract that will have the last 2 as eh maybe not so much good. Will that be with hitters (and which one) or will it be with pitchers? How will he value pitchers? (will we go cheap all the way through or will he pay up for an ace or potential ace). If you follow the dodgers way of doing things, it seems like pitching is paid for both in the draft and free agency/trades by targeting and paying up for the elites. Walker Buehler was coming off Tommy John but had ace upside and they paid up later in the draft (Rocker thoughts). Trades have been made to target aces or signings of short term elite pitchers (Scherzer and well that other guy I won't mention who was on Indians and Reds signed to short deal). (you could argue Paxton was this type of signing). I tend to believe THIS might be the way we go with pitching, which I actually like (and I worry about Rocker). Side note- something not mentioned is that Rocker didn't sign with Mets because they wanted to give him slot value last year after medicals. Slot value last year is much higher than he would obtain at slot value with Red Sox at this pick. So...is he signable at slot and do we want him at a number that might be vastily over slot? I haven't heard what he's asking for or anything, just kinda using reasoning to point out some potential problem areas with a Kumar Rocker pick at that point. (essentially is he worth the 1st and 2nd round picks if he's asking for that kind of bonus expense). I thought the Mets wanted to give him $0 after medicals (which they were rable to do because Boras advised his client to skip the standard MLB medical review thingy, thereby costing him a guaranteed offer of at least 50% slot value or something like that)?
In any case, it doesn't seem to me that Rocker has much leverage. Would he really not sign for a second draft in a row?
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Post by prospectlove on Jul 11, 2022 18:26:06 GMT -5
I would tend to agree with you on Bloom's philosophy. I also wonder if he will have to change his philosophy in a major market team that not only expects to contend every year, but after awhile the fanbase won't accept just contending (they will want to WIN). In so much as the above is true, as some point Bloom will have to take educated "risks" with money to pay for a players 2/3 first years of a say 5 year contract that will have the last 2 as eh maybe not so much good. Will that be with hitters (and which one) or will it be with pitchers? How will he value pitchers? (will we go cheap all the way through or will he pay up for an ace or potential ace). If you follow the dodgers way of doing things, it seems like pitching is paid for both in the draft and free agency/trades by targeting and paying up for the elites. Walker Buehler was coming off Tommy John but had ace upside and they paid up later in the draft (Rocker thoughts). Trades have been made to target aces or signings of short term elite pitchers (Scherzer and well that other guy I won't mention who was on Indians and Reds signed to short deal). (you could argue Paxton was this type of signing). I tend to believe THIS might be the way we go with pitching, which I actually like (and I worry about Rocker). Side note- something not mentioned is that Rocker didn't sign with Mets because they wanted to give him slot value last year after medicals. Slot value last year is much higher than he would obtain at slot value with Red Sox at this pick. So...is he signable at slot and do we want him at a number that might be vastily over slot? I haven't heard what he's asking for or anything, just kinda using reasoning to point out some potential problem areas with a Kumar Rocker pick at that point. (essentially is he worth the 1st and 2nd round picks if he's asking for that kind of bonus expense). I thought the Mets wanted to give him $0 after medicals (which they were rable to do because Boras advised his client to skip the standard MLB medical review thingy, thereby costing him a guaranteed offer of at least 50% slot value or something like that)?
In any case, it doesn't seem to me that Rocker has much leverage. Would he really not sign for a second draft in a row?
It's been done before a few times and Boras was the agent then also. I can't remember the pitchers names, but they cost themselves SIGNIFICANTLY and one never did sniff $1million (drafted top 10 by Colorado at first).
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 12, 2022 5:39:46 GMT -5
That's a low stakes trade, but I think the Royals probably got back like double the value of the 35th pick. The $2.2 million the Braves still have to spend is a significant cost relative to the historic payoff from #35 picks. As much as I wanted to trade for draft picks, only 6 #35 picks have had a bWAR of at least 5, and two of them are old friends Johnny Damon (1st with 56.3 bWAR) and Mark Bellhorn (4th place with 8 bWAR) In fact we have the 8th place #35 pick on our roster right now.
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