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9/6-9/8 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by congusgambler33 on Sept 6, 2021 17:18:16 GMT -5
Why do these guys always try to pull sliders. Just go the other way with it...Good grief
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Post by tizzle on Sept 6, 2021 17:18:23 GMT -5
Things that contributed to this loss: 1) Verdugo instead of Kiké in CF. 2) Motter instead of Arroyo at 2B. 3) Iglesias being on the team at all. 4) Insane, ridiculous, world-historically bad BABIP luck. Yeah, they could have salvaged a win with better defense. But it's only the ridiculously bad covid and BABIP luck that made that matter. Nope, they don't deserve excuses today. And Motter and Arauz contributed a good deal of offense. Most of the defensive problems that cost were by regulars (Verdugo, Vazquez, Renfroe, Dalbec)
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Post by manfred on Sept 6, 2021 17:35:40 GMT -5
In retrospect, I might have spent those 5 hours in a more productive way.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 6, 2021 17:41:06 GMT -5
not to pick on him, but JD just doesn't seem to have it in big spots very often. (well, yes, I picked in him)
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 6, 2021 17:51:29 GMT -5
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Post by soxjim on Sept 6, 2021 18:32:59 GMT -5
Apparently offense matters too.
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2021 18:50:57 GMT -5
So is there anyone who isn't ready to see Kiké back in CF ?
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Post by jmei on Sept 6, 2021 19:44:22 GMT -5
Worst loss of the season. Worst loss of the season so far.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 19:52:17 GMT -5
As long as the worst loss of the season doesn't occur on Oct 5th, I'll be fine with whatever happens and I say that still thinking, despite themselves, this team will make it to Oct 5th somehow someway.
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2021 20:01:11 GMT -5
Worst loss of the season. Worst loss of the season so far. No day is all bad when the Jeenkees lusz.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 20:15:02 GMT -5
Worst loss of the season so far. No day is all bad when the Jeenkees lusz. No, it's just frustrating that they blew a golden opportunity to go ahead of the Jeenkees. I'd much prefer the Oct 5th game to be at Fenway rather than the Toilet Bowl. This team needs every advantage it can get.
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Post by soxinsf on Sept 6, 2021 20:40:32 GMT -5
So is there anyone who isn't ready to see Kiké back in CF ? OK. Dugie is not the CF of our dreams. Duran is not the CF of our dreams. Is Kiké the guy we want out there full time? To me, it will depend on his hitting. He has been good defensively, but if his hitting reverts to his mean, then he is not our guy either. For the moment, however, he was getting it done so he goes back out there when he is ready. The problem is that his presence in CF means that one of Renfroe, Dugie, Schwarber, Dalbec or JD has to sit down.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 20:55:20 GMT -5
So is there anyone who isn't ready to see Kikéàback in CF ?àOK. Dugie is not the CF of our dreams. Duran is not the CF of our dreams. Is Kiké the guy we want out there full time? To me, it will depend on his hitting. He has been good defensively, but if his hitting reverts to his mean, then he is not our guy either. For the moment, however, he was getting it done so he goes back out there when he is ready. The problem is that his presence in CF means that one of Renfroe, Dugie, Schwarber, Dalbec or JD has to sit down. At this point I'm kind of resigned to it. I'm not sold on Dalbec's hot streak but if he's hitting you want him in the lineup even if his defense isn't there, but honestly I would sit him on the bench and start Schwarber at 1b. I am more and more convinced that the Sox have to have their best defensive team on the field. They're giving away too many runs. Today's defense cost them a bunch of runs and the ballgame and it's hardly the first time. The one bright spot is if you do have to sit Dalbec, Arroyo has been productive when he has played. If he comes back healthy and they can keep him in bubble wrap, he's a good glove at 2b and he has hit. I know he's about league average but I think he's gotten a lot of key hits and he puts the ball into play. Good things happen when he's around, so it's not the worst thing if Dalbec sits to get Arroyo at 2b and Hernandez in CF. I don't know that we're seeing a brand new Hernandez but something has been different about him. He's been a lot more patient at the plate and that's all you can ask from a leadoff guy, so maybe he's a better player now. It doesn't have to be a long-term thing. Hopefully it lasts the rest of the season. Yeah you could sit Verdugo down against a lefty and go with Schwarber or JDM in LF, but I don't want the defense messed up. I wouldn't sit down Renfroe either. He's been too important offensively and defensively in RF. I know JDM has disappointed at times lately, but I still think he's one of their best bats, so he has to play - DH is where he truly belongs. And no way you sit Schwarber. I do agree their best lineup at the moment has Verdugo in CF and Kiké at 2b with Dalbec at 1b, but I think the overall upgrade in defense at 2b and CF trumps the possible defensive downgrade from bad to worse at 1b, although you can debate that. Where's Pokey Reese, Doug Mientkiewicz, Dave Roberts, and Gabe Kapler when you need late inning defense?
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2021 21:20:41 GMT -5
OK. Dugie is not the CF of our dreams. Duran is not the CF of our dreams. Is Kiké the guy we want out there full time? To me, it will depend on his hitting. He has been good defensively, but if his hitting reverts to his mean, then he is not our guy either. For the moment, however, he was getting it done so he goes back out there when he is ready. The problem is that his presence in CF means that one of Renfroe, Dugie, Schwarber, Dalbec or JD has to sit down. At this point I'm kind of resigned to it. I'm not sold on Dalbec's hot streak but if he's hitting you want him in the lineup even if his defense isn't there, but honestly I would sit him on the bench and start Schwarber at 1b. I am more and more convinced that the Sox have to have their best defensive team on the field. They're giving away too many runs. Today's defense cost them a bunch of runs and the ballgame and it's hardly the first time. The one bright spot is if you do have to sit Dalbec, Arroyo has been productive when he has played. If he comes back healthy and they can keep him in bubble wrap, he's a good glove at 2b and he has hit. I know he's about league average but I think he's gotten a lot of key hits and he puts the ball into play. Good things happen when he's around, so it's not the worst thing if Dalbec sits to get Arroyo at 2b and Hernandez in CF. I don't know that we're seeing a brand new Hernandez but something has been different about him. He's been a lot more patient at the plate and that's all you can ask from a leadoff guy, so maybe he's a better player now. It doesn't have to be a long-term thing. Hopefully it lasts the rest of the season. Yeah you could sit Verdugo down against a lefty and go with Schwarber or JDM in LF, but I don't want the defense messed up. I wouldn't sit down Renfroe either. He's been too important offensively and defensively in RF. I know JDM has disappointed at times lately, but I still think he's one of their best bats, so he has to play - DH is where he truly belongs. And no way you sit Schwarber. I do agree their best lineup at the moment has Verdugo in CF and Kiké at 2b with Dalbec at 1b, but I think the overall upgrade in defense at 2b and CF trumps the possible defensive downgrade from bad to worse at 1b, although you can debate that. Where's Pokey Reese, Doug Mientkiewicz, Dave Roberts, and Gabe Kapler when you need late inning defense? In my opinion CF is the most important defensive position in baseball and no where more so than Fenway Park. A SS turns outs into singles or singles into outs. A CF turns outs into singles, doubles, triples and inside the park home runs. Or singles, doubles, triples and home runs into outs. The CF also either throws out base runners at home plate (or doesn't) far more often than a SS would.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 21:44:40 GMT -5
At this point I'm kind of resigned to it. I'm not sold on Dalbec's hot streak but if he's hitting you want him in the lineup even if his defense isn't there, but honestly I would sit him on the bench and start Schwarber at 1b. I am more and more convinced that the Sox have to have their best defensive team on the field. They're giving away too many runs. Today's defense cost them a bunch of runs and the ballgame and it's hardly the first time. The one bright spot is if you do have to sit Dalbec, Arroyo has been productive when he has played. If he comes back healthy and they can keep him in bubble wrap, he's a good glove at 2b and he has hit. I know he's about league average but I think he's gotten a lot of key hits and he puts the ball into play. Good things happen when he's around, so it's not the worst thing if Dalbec sits to get Arroyo at 2b and Hernandez in CF. I don't know that we're seeing a brand new Hernandez but something has been different about him. He's been a lot more patient at the plate and that's all you can ask from a leadoff guy, so maybe he's a better player now. It doesn't have to be a long-term thing. Hopefully it lasts the rest of the season. Yeah you could sit Verdugo down against a lefty and go with Schwarber or JDM in LF, but I don't want the defense messed up. I wouldn't sit down Renfroe either. He's been too important offensively and defensively in RF. I know JDM has disappointed at times lately, but I still think he's one of their best bats, so he has to play - DH is where he truly belongs. And no way you sit Schwarber. I do agree their best lineup at the moment has Verdugo in CF and Kiké at 2b with Dalbec at 1b, but I think the overall upgrade in defense at 2b and CF trumps the possible defensive downgrade from bad to worse at 1b, although you can debate that. Where's Pokey Reese, Doug Mientkiewicz, Dave Roberts, and Gabe Kapler when you need late inning defense? In my opinion CF is the most important defensive position in baseball and no where more so than Fenway Park. A SS turns outs into singles or singles into outs. A CF turns outs into singles, doubles, triples and inside the park home runs. Or singles, doubles, triples and home runs into outs. The CF also either throws out base runners at home plate (or doesn't) far more often than a SS would. If you're implying that Kiké Hernandez should come back as the CF, I agree.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 6, 2021 21:49:04 GMT -5
I have to say that the Iglesias signing is the first Bl, that's way worse than 16 errors are the only reason.oom move that I didn't even want to wait to see. He does not belong here and I have no idea what Bloom has in mind.
-21 DRS. Good grief that's way worse than it being a factor of his 16 errors alone. Mr' Bobbles tonight.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 6, 2021 21:50:10 GMT -5
Worst loss of the season so far. No day is all bad when the Jeenkees lusz. It was an expensive loss because they burned a Sale start and will probably be without Whitlock for at least a day (though Cora is clearly being more aggressive with his usage of GW down the stretch, partly due to the importance of the games and partly due to being so depleted in the pen). Ottavino also seems like he needs some down time and Richards will have limited availability, at best, tomorrow after throwing 30 pitches today. E-Rod isn't someone we count on to go deep into games, so tomorrow's BP situation could be dicey.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 21:54:14 GMT -5
No day is all bad when the Jeenkees lusz. It was an expensive loss because they burned a Sale start and will probably be without Whitlock for at least a day (though Cora is clearly being more aggressive with his usage of GW down the stretch, partly due to the importance of the games and partly due to being so depleted in the pen). Ottavino also seems like he needs some down time and Richards will have limited availability, at best, tomorrow after throwing 30 pitches today. E-Rod isn't someone we count on to go deep into games, so tomorrow's BP situation could be dicey. Yeah, this was a game they needed to win. The pen is kind of spent and it makes me concerned that Tampa could come into Boston and take all 3. I was hoping the Sox would have won today to go ahead of NY. The Blue Jays are a handful and should give the Yankees trouble, but the Sox are now in their tough stretch with TB, CWS, and Seattle. They can't afford to give games away.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 6, 2021 22:01:43 GMT -5
It was an expensive loss because they burned a Sale start and will probably be without Whitlock for at least a day (though Cora is clearly being more aggressive with his usage of GW down the stretch, partly due to the importance of the games and partly due to being so depleted in the pen). Ottavino also seems like he needs some down time and Richards will have limited availability, at best, tomorrow after throwing 30 pitches today. E-Rod isn't someone we count on to go deep into games, so tomorrow's BP situation could be dicey. Yeah, this was a game they needed to win. The pen is kind of spent and it makes me concerned that Tampa could come into Boston and take all 3. I was hoping the Sox would have won today to go ahead of NY. The Blue Jays are a handful and should give the Yankees trouble, but the Sox are now in their tough stretch with TB, CWS, and Seattle. They can't afford to give games away. I'm not worried about Seattle, though. They're an incredible 11 games ahead of their Pythag. I mean they could sweep us, but if they do it'll be because that's BB, Suzyn. It won't be because they're a good team.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 6, 2021 22:18:09 GMT -5
Yeah, this was a game they needed to win. The pen is kind of spent and it makes me concerned that Tampa could come into Boston and take all 3. I was hoping the Sox would have won today to go ahead of NY. The Blue Jays are a handful and should give the Yankees trouble, but the Sox are now in their tough stretch with TB, CWS, and Seattle. They can't afford to give games away. I'm not worried about Seattle, though. They're an incredible 11 games ahead of their Pythag. I mean they could sweep us, but if they do it'll be because that's BB, Suzyn. It won't be because they're a good team. My concern with Seattle is less that they're a good team but more because the Sox usually struggle on West Coast trips and lately haven't been great on the road. I do agree that Seattle is the team of Oakland, Toronto and Seattle that I fear the least. They've played over their heads all year as you say. Toronto worries me. They are a talented team. I want to see them beat the Yankees, but not get too close to the Sox to where they can overtake them. I do think the Sox can stay ahead of Oakland.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 6, 2021 22:33:23 GMT -5
I'm not worried about Seattle, though. They're an incredible 11 games ahead of their Pythag. I mean they could sweep us, but if they do it'll be because that's BB, Suzyn. It won't be because they're a good team. My concern with Seattle is less that they're a good team but more because the Sox usually struggle on West Coast trips and lately haven't been great on the road. I do agree that Seattle is the team of Oakland, Toronto and Seattle that I fear the least. They've played over their heads all year as you say. Toronto worries me. They are a talented team. I want to see them beat the Yankees, but not get too close to the Sox to where they can overtake them. I do think the Sox can stay ahead of Oakland. I was just looking at playoff probabilities on ESPN - they are really moving about - Toronto up to 26%, Seattle and Oakland down to about 8% each. MFY 82, we are at 78. Going to be a pretty epic last part of the season - hopefully in a good way for us.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Sept 7, 2021 1:20:01 GMT -5
With a 7-1 lead, you have to put your best defensive team on the field. But it's not clear who that is.
Who was the best CF in the organization today? Rosario. That didn't go as planned on '21
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Post by soxinnj on Sept 7, 2021 7:10:35 GMT -5
Yes I’m a little old school, but a part of the game that really pissed me off that I haven’t seen anybody talk about anywhere was the fact that Iglesias was the first guy to the ball on the inside-the-park HR. What the hell were the corner OF doing? That is unacceptable at any level, especially in the 9th inning when you are up a run, trying to make a playoff push.
If they hustle over on contact, they hold Meadows to at worst a triple, maybe even a double (but probably not). Who knows what happens then.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 7, 2021 7:49:06 GMT -5
Up the middle defense MATTERS. Hitting aside, I miss you, JBJ.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Sept 7, 2021 8:34:22 GMT -5
I feel like the Rays are buried in the Sox collective heads. The defense is awful.
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