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Patriots 2021 season thread
cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 3, 2022 21:53:22 GMT -5
Jahan Dotson was the wideout I wanted in this draft too. Can win at every level, adds some electricity to the WR group
Good route runner from what I’ve seen too so he’s not a guy that solely relies on being a physical freak
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 4, 2022 6:48:39 GMT -5
The Bengals look like they are for real. Chase is so damn good and Burrow is going to be a top 5 QB if he's not already. Yeah Chase is a great example of what a truly dynamic #1 WR brings to an offense with the home run threat. Add that to an offense like the Patriots and it opens up all kinds of schemes for running the ball and the underneath stuff with D's having to double or run the risk of the big play. And to think the Pats could have had that if they didn't screw up the Harry pick with Samuel, Brown and Metcalf still on the board, oh well. Giving Mac that guy would be great for his career goes without saying. I was actually hoping to see this years Ernie Adams pick, Tre Nixon, with all the injuries at the WR position but we got to see Wilkerson instead. Nixon could develop into something, maybe Wilkerson does, but a true #1 would be making the team not going undrafted or going 242 overall. In regards to that though, do you remember all the speculation when Harris got a total of 4 rushing attempts his rookie season? Don't underestimate BB's ability to develop players at every position.
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Post by costpet on Jan 4, 2022 9:38:13 GMT -5
I don't like running quarterbacks. They tend to run into angry 250 lbs linebackers. The best quarterbacks were always pocket passers...like Johnny Unitas, Montana, Bobby Layne (remember him? He was the last QB to not wear a facemask) and so many more. Steve Young was a runner, but had to retire with 5 concussions. Brady always stayed in the pocket and still plays. That's why I like Mac. Stay at home and avoid getting hit.
Miami in Miami always sucks. At least it doesn't matter now.
I feel sorry for Trevor Lawrence. He seems to be a good QB, but has to play on a really bad team. Mac has the Pats and BB. Big difference.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 4, 2022 10:20:27 GMT -5
I don't like running quarterbacks. They tend to run into angry 250 lbs linebackers. The best quarterbacks were always pocket passers...like Johnny Unitas, Montana, Bobby Layne (remember him? He was the last QB to not wear a facemask) and so many more. Steve Young was a runner, but had to retire with 5 concussions. Brady always stayed in the pocket and still plays. That's why I like Mac. Stay at home and avoid getting hit. Miami in Miami always sucks. At least it doesn't matter now. I feel sorry for Trevor Lawrence. He seems to be a good QB, but has to play on a really bad team. Mac has the Pats and BB. Big difference. The thing is we are starting to see the evolution of the athletic QB. Guys like Rogers, Mahomes, Watson and even Allen are examples of mobile QBs that can hurt you with their legs but do the most damage with their arms. A QB will ALWAYS have to throw from the pocket and know when to stay there and not rely on his legs, BUT these guys who can do that but also make you pay dearly with their legs are the new age QB that we will see more and more of.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 4, 2022 11:15:27 GMT -5
By the way, if the Pats didn’t fumble away the first game of the year, they’d have the 1 seed and a first round bye in their control. Just a friendly reminder
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 4, 2022 14:42:10 GMT -5
Who's your most disappointing player? Mine are Jonnu Smith, Uche and Winovich.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 4, 2022 15:20:07 GMT -5
I don't like running quarterbacks. They tend to run into angry 250 lbs linebackers. The best quarterbacks were always pocket passers...like Johnny Unitas, Montana, Bobby Layne (remember him? He was the last QB to not wear a facemask) and so many more. Steve Young was a runner, but had to retire with 5 concussions. Brady always stayed in the pocket and still plays. That's why I like Mac. Stay at home and avoid getting hit. Miami in Miami always sucks. At least it doesn't matter now. I feel sorry for Trevor Lawrence. He seems to be a good QB, but has to play on a really bad team. Mac has the Pats and BB. Big difference. The announcer made a good point about watching Mac succeed under Josh McDaniels and whether they might try that again with Lawrence next year.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 4, 2022 15:33:10 GMT -5
Who's your most disappointing player? Mine are Jonnu Smith, Uche and Winovich. Definitely Smith for me, especially with the contract involved. Uche is disappointing but his lack of durability was always a concern so it's not a shock he's had a mostly lost year. Winovich should be in another system. Onwenu is on the radar too, in terms of preseason expectations vs results. I thought he'd be closer to their best lineman than a depth/rotational option.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 4, 2022 16:14:56 GMT -5
Who's your most disappointing player? Mine are Jonnu Smith, Uche and Winovich. Jonnu for sure Wynn - I’m hard on him but I hoped for him to take the next step being healthy and he hasn’t Uche is a good one Honorable mention is Algholor I had low expectations for Winovich
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 4, 2022 16:16:59 GMT -5
Who's your most disappointing player? Mine are Jonnu Smith, Uche and Winovich. Definitely Smith for me, especially with the contract involved. Uche is disappointing but his lack of durability was always a concern so it's not a shock he's had a mostly lost year. Winovich should be in another system. Onwenu is on the radar too, in terms of preseason expectations vs results. I thought he'd be closer to their best lineman than a depth/rotational option. Onwenu has been really good - Karras just worked with Wynn better and Brown came back
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 4, 2022 16:43:33 GMT -5
I listed Winovich because he had 11 sacks and 56 pressures his first two years, he has 3 pressures this year. Him bulking up seems to have killed his pass rush. Uche was on fire to start the year and absolutely nothing since. Given Judon and an improved DL, those two doing nothing is a big part of why we aren't elite. Perfect roles in that they only have one task, get pressure opposite Judon.
Agholor has been disappointing, yet I feel still plays a big role just being out there to stretch the field. Smith does almost nothing, he's not a decoy or even a good blocker. They tried featuring him and now he's just an after thought. Agholor was plagued by an offense that doesn't go deep a ton and spreads it around. That should fit Smith perfectly.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 5, 2022 11:40:19 GMT -5
I listed Winovich because he had 11 sacks and 56 pressures his first two years, he has 3 pressures this year. Him bulking up seems to have killed his pass rush. Uche was on fire to start the year and absolutely nothing since. Given Judon and an improved DL, those two doing nothing is a big part of why we aren't elite. Perfect roles in that they only have one task, get pressure opposite Judon. Agholor has been disappointing, yet I feel still plays a big role just being out there to stretch the field. Smith does almost nothing, he's not a decoy or even a good blocker. They tried featuring him and now he's just an after thought. Agholor was plagued by an offense that doesn't go deep a ton and spreads it around. That should fit Smith perfectly. Not having one of the young pass rushers do anything is certainly disappointing and doesn’t make you feel good about the long term there. Hopefully, Perkins is something .
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 5, 2022 11:41:57 GMT -5
A natural follow up question is who are the guys who have exceeded your expectations? I think mind would be:
Duggar
Stephenson
Barmore
Honorable mentions:
Phillips Mills
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 5, 2022 13:54:53 GMT -5
I forgot to play, so I'll do both.
Sadly Agholor is exactly who I thought he was but NOW WITH MORE INJURY PRONE (R). As an aside, free agent WR do not work out.
I still have hope for Jonnu, but what a bad first year. Glad they doubled dipped at TE. I hate having an "in between" left tackle, and Wynn has neither dominated nor been a huge detriment to make his long term future any clearer. I expected someone from the D-line to step up but it seems like Baremore is the only one beyond Judon standing out.
I'm now high on the Duggar/Phillips combo if McCourty leaves so great job by them hitting new levels (though we still would need to bring someone in to make sure Phillips and Mills can move around). Contrary to my tweet share above, Bourne has been a hit.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 5, 2022 14:03:15 GMT -5
Mac Jones, Mac Jones, Mac Jones, I mean you forget he's a rookie.
Stevenson for sure and Phillips.
Honorable mention to Mills, not because he's great. I just had low expectations of a sub package player and he's far from our biggest problem as a full time starter.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 5, 2022 19:34:33 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 5, 2022 21:09:21 GMT -5
Biggest disappointments
Jonnu Winovich JJ Taylor (kinda expected him to fill the White role when he went down but he’s been largely ineffective when on the field)
Biggest pleasant surprises
Dugger Barmore Mac
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Post by texs31 on Jan 6, 2022 8:16:42 GMT -5
Uche has been my biggest disappointment. Really thought he'd take off this year.
I really wanted Wino to be part of the solution here but the writing was on the wall. Bedard was on it by the end of last year and then you add the early injury and this hasn't been a surprise.
This year's rookie class has been my most pleasant surprise. Liked the guys they took but didn't think Mac, Barmore and 'Mondre would contribute so much so soon.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 6, 2022 9:19:05 GMT -5
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 6, 2022 11:11:19 GMT -5
Why are so many people on Twitter arguing Matthew Slater should be a HOFer? It’s driving me crazy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 6, 2022 12:12:07 GMT -5
Do you believe those numbers? I certainly haven't seen Barmore get 3 pressures every game. Football Refrence has 18 pressures and frankly that matches what I've watched. He flashed, had good games, shown you upside. I haven't seen one of the best DL in Football every week. You can't argue QBKD or Sacks, he has 7 and 1.5, so the difference is hurries of 9 versus 27. If they have Barmore at 45 pressures, what does Judon have 125? I mean Football Refrence has Wise with 17 pressures, one below Barmore yet more sacks. Heck PFF rates Wise higher than Barmore, grade 65 versus 68.1. Now I've always been a Wise fan, good solid player, yet not close to elite. Frankly I've seen the same Barmore that was at Bama, a top 10-15 talent that can dominate games, yet also disappears in other games. It's the reason he dropped in the draft.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 6, 2022 12:46:36 GMT -5
Do you believe those numbers? I certainly haven't seen Barmore get 3 pressures every game. Football Refrence has 18 pressures and frankly that matches what I've watched. He flashed, had good games, shown you upside. I haven't seen one of the best DL in Football every week. You can't argue QBKD or Sacks, he has 7 and 1.5, so the difference is hurries of 9 versus 27. If they have Barmore at 45 pressures, what does Judon have 125? I mean Football Refrence has Wise with 17 pressures, one below Barmore yet more sacks. Heck PFF rates Wise higher than Barmore, grade 65 versus 68.1. Now I've always been a Wise fan, good solid player, yet not close to elite. Frankly I've seen the same Barmore that was at Bama, a top 10-15 talent that can dominate games, yet also disappears in other games. It's the reason he dropped in the draft. Idk man, I’m not sure where he’s got his numbers from but pressures is a subjective stat and I do trust Lazars analysis of film breakdown. So I’m not going to dismiss him pointing this out. I think we often look at pressure as a guy breaking free of a blocker but that’s not what pressure from the interior is. I think Barmore has been up and down but had been impactful for a rookie. There’s a ton to like about his season.
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Post by texs31 on Jan 6, 2022 13:53:57 GMT -5
FWIW, Bedard has him lower at 39 (though I don't have his breakdown from Game 5 but Lazar didn't have Barmore with any pressures that day so . . .)
Also, Mike Renner (PFF) had him at 42 prior to the Jacksonville game.
EDIT - Lazar breaks down film himself so the numbers are from his interpretation of the action (subjective, as RJP states, but they are his numbers).
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Post by texs31 on Jan 6, 2022 13:58:51 GMT -5
Also, I think you CAN argue sacks. The counting stats track, basically, the guys whose arms were wrapped around the QB or who hit him.
The film breakdown, however, ATTEMPTS to do more. That being said, Lazar's numbers on that are 2 sacks and 8 hits where as Bedard's are 3 and 12.
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Post by costpet on Jan 6, 2022 17:21:37 GMT -5
Mathew Slader - 10 Pro Bowls 5 1st team All-Pro 3 Super Bowls. Is Special Teamer a HOF position? Can you name someone better?
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