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Patriots 2021 season thread
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jan 6, 2022 20:56:39 GMT -5
Why are so many people on Twitter arguing Matthew Slater should be a HOFer? It’s driving me crazy. He will definitely be a finalist and I wouldn't be shocked if he gets in tbh. Devin Hester is a finalist in his first year of eligibility and Steve Tasker didn't get in but got a lot of consideration. The NFL HOF voting process is very flawed (I mean, Devin Hester is a finalist), and coming from a dynasty run where he was a team leader and hugely likable figure to the media can't hurt his cause either. Now I wouldn't vote for him, there are too many more impactful players left out, but I could see it happening for sure. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 7, 2022 12:50:41 GMT -5
Bill O'Brien being interviewed for Jaguars coach. Not nearly Urban funny, but still pretty funny as far as maintaining a team identity of madness and instability. I think Shad learned the wrong lesson, "Constant sideshows are fine as long as the coach has some NFL success instead of only college success"
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 7, 2022 13:36:17 GMT -5
Bill O'Brien being interviewed for Jaguars coach. Not nearly Urban funny, but still pretty funny as far as maintaining a team identity of madness and instability. I think Shad learned the wrong lesson, "Constant sideshows are fine as long as the coach has some NFL success instead of only college success" He had several good seasons in Houston. He was over .500 in 5 of his 6 full seasons including a 10 and 11 win season. It’s not like they sucked while he was there. People also tend to learn from one job to the next. |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 7, 2022 14:29:14 GMT -5
Bill O'Brien being interviewed for Jaguars coach. Not nearly Urban funny, but still pretty funny as far as maintaining a team identity of madness and instability. I think Shad learned the wrong lesson, "Constant sideshows are fine as long as the coach has some NFL success instead of only college success" He had several good seasons in Houston. He was over .500 in 5 of his 6 full seasons including a 10 and 11 win season. It’s not like they sucked while he was there. People also tend to learn from one job to the next. Obrien as a coach had enough success to warrant a look. His issue in Houston was when he took over as GM and just traded all several high picks like they were candy and then sent Hopkins out for practically nothing. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 7, 2022 16:05:41 GMT -5
He had several good seasons in Houston. He was over .500 in 5 of his 6 full seasons including a 10 and 11 win season. It’s not like they sucked while he was there. People also tend to learn from one job to the next. Obrien as a coach had enough success to warrant a look. His issue in Houston was when he took over as GM and just traded all several high picks like they were candy and then sent Hopkins out for practically nothing. He also brought a boatload of drama as both coach and GM. And office politics and weird hires. I agree he gets/should get another shot. He's just far more like Myers than seems like a good idea. For a team that saw maybe its best success under him the Texans fans were plenty ready to be done with his crap. |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 7, 2022 16:32:33 GMT -5
Obrien as a coach had enough success to warrant a look. His issue in Houston was when he took over as GM and just traded all several high picks like they were candy and then sent Hopkins out for practically nothing. He also brought a boatload of drama as both coach and GM. And office politics and weird hires. I agree he gets/should get another shot. He's just far more like Myers than seems like a good idea. For a team that saw maybe its best success under him the Texans fans were plenty ready to be done with his crap. All valid points and yes if I was the jags I'd stay away from him as the way their season unfolded with urban and the way things ended in Houston for Obrien I think it'd be a potential combustible situation. That's the last thing the jags and their franchise qb in Lawrence needs. If they screw up this hire they potentially ruin Lawrence. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 7, 2022 16:51:39 GMT -5
Do you believe those numbers? I certainly haven't seen Barmore get 3 pressures every game. Football Refrence has 18 pressures and frankly that matches what I've watched. He flashed, had good games, shown you upside. I haven't seen one of the best DL in Football every week. You can't argue QBKD or Sacks, he has 7 and 1.5, so the difference is hurries of 9 versus 27. If they have Barmore at 45 pressures, what does Judon have 125? I mean Football Refrence has Wise with 17 pressures, one below Barmore yet more sacks. Heck PFF rates Wise higher than Barmore, grade 65 versus 68.1. Now I've always been a Wise fan, good solid player, yet not close to elite. Frankly I've seen the same Barmore that was at Bama, a top 10-15 talent that can dominate games, yet also disappears in other games. It's the reason he dropped in the draft. Idk man, I’m not sure where he’s got his numbers from but pressures is a subjective stat and I do trust Lazars analysis of film breakdown. So I’m not going to dismiss him pointing this out. I think we often look at pressure as a guy breaking free of a blocker but that’s not what pressure from the interior is. I think Barmore has been up and down but had been impactful for a rookie. There’s a ton to like about his season. This is just like Floor versus ceiling then, the definitions are widely known, yet each person's own interpretation makes comparing things rather hard. I'm excited by Barmore. He's had a good rookie year and has the upside to become a force down the road. I just haven't seen the consistent pass rush needed to rank in those numbers and be that high. I have a feeling I know what they are doing, counting things like screens as pressures and crap like that. I just have an issue because if you add up these guys pressure totals for the whole team, it's going to workout to some crazy number that doesn't match what I've seen watching games. We've gone long stretches without being able to get pressure and have Judon who is a beast. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 7, 2022 16:56:45 GMT -5
I'd hire Bill O'Brian without even thinking about it much. How did he spend his year away from the NFL? Working for Nick Saban at Bama. Time under Bill and now Saban, along with success as an NFL coach, why wouldn't you hire him?
His issue was thinking he could also be Bill the GM and that's crazy hard to pull off.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2022 6:07:02 GMT -5
I forgot to play, so I'll do both. Sadly Agholor is exactly who I thought he was but NOW WITH MORE INJURY PRONE (R). As an aside, free agent WR do not work out. I still have hope for Jonnu, but what a bad first year. Glad they doubled dipped at TE. I hate having an "in between" left tackle, and Wynn has neither dominated nor been a huge detriment to make his long term future any clearer. I expected someone from the D-line to step up but it seems like Baremore is the only one beyond Judon standing out. I'm now high on the Duggar/Phillips combo if McCourty leaves so great job by them hitting new levels (though we still would need to bring someone in to make sure Phillips and Mills can move around). Contrary to my tweet share above, Bourne has been a hit. D-linemen in the Pats system usually don't stand out much so it is easy to overlook but I would add Devon Godchaux to the list of guys having a good season. I also have hope for Jonnu to be more productive moving forward and they have made efforts to get the ball in his hands. The 2021 draft has already been a hit with Mac, Mondre and Barmore but being greedy I am hoping to see Perkins added to that group as a legit player. He was a force at Oklahoma and the Pats just opened up his chances of getting some action this yr. One more hit from that draft would make it a draft for the ages and man did it come at a good time as the Pats really needed it. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2022 6:24:20 GMT -5
Do you believe those numbers? I certainly haven't seen Barmore get 3 pressures every game. Football Refrence has 18 pressures and frankly that matches what I've watched. He flashed, had good games, shown you upside. I haven't seen one of the best DL in Football every week. You can't argue QBKD or Sacks, he has 7 and 1.5, so the difference is hurries of 9 versus 27. If they have Barmore at 45 pressures, what does Judon have 125? I mean Football Refrence has Wise with 17 pressures, one below Barmore yet more sacks. Heck PFF rates Wise higher than Barmore, grade 65 versus 68.1. Now I've always been a Wise fan, good solid player, yet not close to elite. Frankly I've seen the same Barmore that was at Bama, a top 10-15 talent that can dominate games, yet also disappears in other games. It's the reason he dropped in the draft. For whatever it is worth when buying in on a subjective stat you should at least be assuming that all the players are being evaluated the same way. So whether or not he has that many pressures in your mind the bottomline is he is in an elite group at the top of the league for that stat. But while I do agree that he hasn't been the same force in every game isn't that normal for a D-linemen? Even the very best are not a beast all the time based on how the O-linemen are playing it. BB regularly takes stars and makes them look pedestrian. And like you said, he is only a rookie. Another thing I see is the Pats D-line staying in their gaps and not trying to use speed moves that take them out of those gaps so the QB can't get out. As a rookie especially I can see him just trying to do his job and pushing the middle of the pocket. One thing we can all agree on is that he was a great pick and is someone that should only get better. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2022 6:33:52 GMT -5
I forgot to play, so I'll do both. Sadly Agholor is exactly who I thought he was but NOW WITH MORE INJURY PRONE (R). As an aside, free agent WR do not work out. I still have hope for Jonnu, but what a bad first year. Glad they doubled dipped at TE. I hate having an "in between" left tackle, and Wynn has neither dominated nor been a huge detriment to make his long term future any clearer. I expected someone from the D-line to step up but it seems like Baremore is the only one beyond Judon standing out. I'm now high on the Duggar/Phillips combo if McCourty leaves so great job by them hitting new levels (though we still would need to bring someone in to make sure Phillips and Mills can move around). Contrary to my tweet share above, Bourne has been a hit. D-linemen in the Pats system usually don't stand out much so it is easy to overlook but I would add Devon Godchaux to the list of guys having a good season. I also have hope for Jonnu to be more productive moving forward and they have made efforts to get the ball in his hands. The 2021 draft has already been a hit with Mac, Mondre and Barmore but being greedy I am hoping to see Perkins added to that group as a legit player. He was a force at Oklahoma and the Pats just opened up his chances of getting some action this yr. One more hit from that draft would make it a draft for the ages and man did it come at a good time as the Pats really needed it. If there’s one rookie, who didn’t really play this year, that we could pick to be really good, I think i e have to hope it’s McGrone, they could really use that fast athletic inside linebacker. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2022 7:38:57 GMT -5
D-linemen in the Pats system usually don't stand out much so it is easy to overlook but I would add Devon Godchaux to the list of guys having a good season. I also have hope for Jonnu to be more productive moving forward and they have made efforts to get the ball in his hands. The 2021 draft has already been a hit with Mac, Mondre and Barmore but being greedy I am hoping to see Perkins added to that group as a legit player. He was a force at Oklahoma and the Pats just opened up his chances of getting some action this yr. One more hit from that draft would make it a draft for the ages and man did it come at a good time as the Pats really needed it. If there’s one rookie, who didn’t really play this year, that we could pick to be really good, I think i e have to hope it’s McGrone, they could really use that fast athletic inside linebacker. Small MLBers haven't been a thing for as long as BB has been in charge but I agree with you that it would be nice to see one with speed for the way the game is played now. Actually smallish fast MLBers have always had success but BB has always preferred the big thumpers. It took a while to find but supposedly he has 4.4 speed comparable to Deven Bush when he was at Michigan. So yeah add him to the list of guys who could make this a draft for the ages. One thing I have noticed this season is backs catching balls out in the flats have had too much success against us, meaning the LBs have been late. Even though the Pats have used a lot of draft capitol on LBers and edge rushers over the past few years it does seem to still be an area of need with some guys getting up there in age. So that is 2 more guys to still have high hopes for. Hightower coming back is questionable and I am not so sure he is going to be a difference maker at this point in his career anyways. He has looked a step slow this year and that step means a lot. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2022 10:35:34 GMT -5
If there’s one rookie, who didn’t really play this year, that we could pick to be really good, I think i e have to hope it’s McGrone, they could really use that fast athletic inside linebacker. Small MLBers haven't been a thing for as long as BB has been in charge but I agree with you that it would be nice to see one with speed for the way the game is played now. Actually smallish fast MLBers have always had success but BB has always preferred the big thumpers. It took a while to find but supposedly he has 4.4 speed comparable to Deven Bush when he was at Michigan. So yeah add him to the list of guys who could make this a draft for the ages. One thing I have noticed this season is backs catching balls out in the flats have had too much success against us, meaning the LBs have been late. Even though the Pats have used a lot of draft capitol on LBers and edge rushers over the past few years it does seem to still be an area of need with some guys getting up there in age. So that is 2 more guys to still have high hopes for. Hightower coming back is questionable and I am not so sure he is going to be a difference maker at this point in his career anyways. He has looked a step slow this year and that step means a lot. I’d argue that BB has changed this philosophy over the last couple years but hasn’t had the personnel to fully execute it. If McGrone can be that guy they they can play 2 safeties instead of 3 and be less susceptible to the run and still cover. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jan 8, 2022 10:52:31 GMT -5
I think Agholor is important to open things up underneath, the game against the Bills when we didn’t have him was a good example of that. They stacked the box and crowded the line making things nearly impossible for Mac in the passing game since there was zero downfield threat
He’s not a great player and his contract was the one I was most concerned about but he’s functional and he always has to be accounted for. He was never going to be a high volume target and he hasn’t really done anything too detrimental out there so I’m fine w him. Would like it if he was a little more involved next year. Also not worried about him being “injury prone”, he took a nasty hit. Stuff happens.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 8, 2022 15:44:50 GMT -5
Do you believe those numbers? I certainly haven't seen Barmore get 3 pressures every game. Football Refrence has 18 pressures and frankly that matches what I've watched. He flashed, had good games, shown you upside. I haven't seen one of the best DL in Football every week. You can't argue QBKD or Sacks, he has 7 and 1.5, so the difference is hurries of 9 versus 27. If they have Barmore at 45 pressures, what does Judon have 125? I mean Football Refrence has Wise with 17 pressures, one below Barmore yet more sacks. Heck PFF rates Wise higher than Barmore, grade 65 versus 68.1. Now I've always been a Wise fan, good solid player, yet not close to elite. Frankly I've seen the same Barmore that was at Bama, a top 10-15 talent that can dominate games, yet also disappears in other games. It's the reason he dropped in the draft. For whatever it is worth when buying in on a subjective stat you should at least be assuming that all the players are being evaluated the same way. So whether or not he has that many pressures in your mind the bottomline is he is in an elite group at the top of the league for that stat. But while I do agree that he hasn't been the same force in every game isn't that normal for a D-linemen? Even the very best are not a beast all the time based on how the O-linemen are playing it. BB regularly takes stars and makes them look pedestrian. And like you said, he is only a rookie. Another thing I see is the Pats D-line staying in their gaps and not trying to use speed moves that take them out of those gaps so the QB can't get out. As a rookie especially I can see him just trying to do his job and pushing the middle of the pocket. One thing we can all agree on is that he was a great pick and is someone that should only get better. I wish you could yet they can't agree on QB hits and sacks, which is kinda crazy. Football Refrence has Barmore tied for 17th amoung DT in pressures. Those guys have Barmore with more pressures than Darnold who leads DTs by a wide margin with 40. So obviously they aren't being evaluated the same way, which is the issue. www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/defense_advanced.htmClark was mentioned as a DT by them, so I made him one, even though they have him at DE. I always thought he was a DT, yet it might be the 3-4 difference. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 8, 2022 15:53:19 GMT -5
McGrone is very interesting because his scouting reports are all different. I just went back and read the first two that came up. First one not very athletic, second one very athletic. Lol.
I loved the pick and think he can be a smaller, yet faster Bentley.
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Post by philarhody on Jan 8, 2022 23:06:16 GMT -5
Small MLBers haven't been a thing for as long as BB has been in charge but I agree with you that it would be nice to see one with speed for the way the game is played now. Actually smallish fast MLBers have always had success but BB has always preferred the big thumpers. It took a while to find but supposedly he has 4.4 speed comparable to Deven Bush when he was at Michigan. So yeah add him to the list of guys who could make this a draft for the ages. One thing I have noticed this season is backs catching balls out in the flats have had too much success against us, meaning the LBs have been late. Even though the Pats have used a lot of draft capitol on LBers and edge rushers over the past few years it does seem to still be an area of need with some guys getting up there in age. So that is 2 more guys to still have high hopes for. Hightower coming back is questionable and I am not so sure he is going to be a difference maker at this point in his career anyways. He has looked a step slow this year and that step means a lot. I’d argue that BB has changed this philosophy over the last couple years but hasn’t had the personnel to fully execute it. If McGrone can be that guy they they can play 2 safeties instead of 3 and be less susceptible to the run and still cover. Linebackers who can cover cost way more than Adrian Phillips and Patrick Chung. Both in draft capital and the open market. Belichick has bucked the trend and exploited a market inefficiency for years by playing downhill thumpers early on downs and either taking them off the field on passing downs (see Bentley and Roberts) or turning them into rushers (see Hightower and KVN). |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 9, 2022 16:32:26 GMT -5
Why is this defense never prepared to start games?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jan 9, 2022 16:46:12 GMT -5
Pats are playoff ready, it seems. Not.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 9, 2022 16:50:37 GMT -5
Clown show of a start. It’s embarrassing how unprepared they are to start games.
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Post by marrcus on Jan 9, 2022 17:25:54 GMT -5
This is not a comeback team. Unless Miami goes turnover-crazy in the second half they are done.
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Post by philarhody on Jan 9, 2022 17:53:47 GMT -5
How has Mac gotten worse as the season has worn on? The mistakes he has made the last four weeks are boneheaded.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 9, 2022 18:01:01 GMT -5
How has Mac gotten worse as the season has worn on? The mistakes he has made the last four weeks are boneheaded. It’s possible he’s tiring out - longer season, more physical than college, etc. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 9, 2022 18:27:24 GMT -5
This has been some of the sketchiest officiating I’ve seen in a long time.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 9, 2022 18:40:13 GMT -5
Patriots keep playing this poorly they won't go too far in the playoffs. Usually the Patriots would improve as the season goes on and head into the playoffs under a full head of steam.
Instead this team is limping in. Looks like they're headed for 3 losses in 4 games and their best football behind them. Hope that's not the case but they don't look too impressive.
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