SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Patriots 2021 season thread
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 8:24:41 GMT -5
Cowboys releases Jaylon Smith last night
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by mobaz on Oct 6, 2021 8:33:51 GMT -5
Kyed says a Gilmore trade is still a possibility prior to release becoming official. I wouldn't expect much.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 9:06:06 GMT -5
Kyed says a Gilmore trade is still a possibility prior to release becoming official. I wouldn't expect much. Let’s get creative - Gilly and a 3 for a 2.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 10:53:31 GMT -5
Pit the packers and the Bucs against each other
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 12:01:30 GMT -5
I guess I don't get just releasing him, why are you not trading him? Ship the guy to the Jags for a 7th round pick given what he pulled. Watch him go sign for minimum to play with the Bucs.
I guess I have to look into out cap, I thought we had a bunch of money left.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 12:05:28 GMT -5
I guess I don't get just releasing him, why are you not trading him? Ship the guy to the Jags for a 7th round pick given what he pulled. Watch him go sign for minimum to play with the Bucs. I guess I have to look into out cap, I thought we had a bunch of money left. They don’t have a lot left - just over 2m. Bill wont just dump a guy he likes into shit situation just to deal him for nothing. It’s one of the more player friendly things he does.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 12:10:32 GMT -5
Cowboys releases Jaylon Smith last night I'd love to add Collins, then add Smith. If you gave Bentley role to Smith you might actually be able to stop the run. You have PFF, are his grades good versus the run and bad versus the pass?
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 12:16:35 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Winovich looks slow? He spent all offseason talking about being better versus the run. Yet his role is pass rush specialist and he doesn't look anything like the guy that had 37 pressures last year. He has 2 in four games, Uche was a no show last game. Collins is going to be a huge add. Judon is doing his part, if you can get the other side to get going watch out.
I forgot to mention it, yet anyone remember the announcers saying Wise was our best defensive player last game?
|
|
|
Post by kingofthetrill on Oct 6, 2021 12:20:36 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Winovich looks slow? He spent all offseason talking about being better versus the run. Yet his role is pass rush specialist and he doesn't look anything like the guy that had 37 pressures last year. He has 2 in four games, Uche was a no show last game. Collins is going to be a huge add. Judon is doing his part, if you can get the other side to get going watch out. I forgot to mention it, yet anyone remember the announcers saying Wise was our best defensive player last game? Yes, I remembered that from the game.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 12:25:58 GMT -5
I guess I don't get just releasing him, why are you not trading him? Ship the guy to the Jags for a 7th round pick given what he pulled. Watch him go sign for minimum to play with the Bucs. I guess I have to look into out cap, I thought we had a bunch of money left. They don’t have a lot left - just over 2m. Bill wont just dump a guy he likes into shit situation just to deal him for nothing. It’s one of the more player friendly things he does. Yeah I get it, I'm just pissed. I don't like players that sign massive deals doing this crap. His average salary on that deal is still just outside the top ten, he wasn't that great last year and had a major injury. He's coming off his 2020 year I would have said okay, yet this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 12:38:40 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Winovich looks slow? He spent all offseason talking about being better versus the run. Yet his role is pass rush specialist and he doesn't look anything like the guy that had 37 pressures last year. He has 2 in four games, Uche was a no show last game. Collins is going to be a huge add. Judon is doing his part, if you can get the other side to get going watch out. I forgot to mention it, yet anyone remember the announcers saying Wise was our best defensive player last game? Uche wouldn’t have been a no show if the refs called any of the holding penalties against him. Guy was abused last game. Yes Collinsworth needs to relax.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 12:43:39 GMT -5
Cowboys releases Jaylon Smith last night I'd love to add Collins, then add Smith. If you gave Bentley role to Smith you might actually be able to stop the run. You have PFF, are his grades good versus the run and bad versus the pass? This year Smiths run grade is 37.4 which is god awful (35 snaps) and his coverage grade is 82.2 (103 snaps) which is really good. His run defense was bad poor year as well (47.1), while his coverage grade was 64.4. Per their grading he’s remained a great tackler, but his play has declined. Word is the Cowboys were ready to move on because they have better players and are worried about how he’s moving and there is a large injury guarantee in his contract they want to avoid.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 12:50:14 GMT -5
I guess I don't get just releasing him, why are you not trading him? Ship the guy to the Jags for a 7th round pick given what he pulled. Watch him go sign for minimum to play with the Bucs. I guess I have to look into out cap, I thought we had a bunch of money left. Looks like they heard ya, we just got a 2023 6th from Carolina
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Oct 6, 2021 12:50:38 GMT -5
Panthers swoop in and trade for Gilly. 6th rounder in 23 (blah).
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Oct 6, 2021 12:51:26 GMT -5
Gilmore traded to the Panthers for a 2023 sixth round pick. Nice to get something for him, but still a little disappointed with the outcome. Have to think there would have been better offers for him during the offseason or training camp. Wonder if Carolina gives him a salary bump or extension and, if so, how much.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 12:52:24 GMT -5
Am I the only one that thinks Winovich looks slow? He spent all offseason talking about being better versus the run. Yet his role is pass rush specialist and he doesn't look anything like the guy that had 37 pressures last year. He has 2 in four games, Uche was a no show last game. Collins is going to be a huge add. Judon is doing his part, if you can get the other side to get going watch out. I forgot to mention it, yet anyone remember the announcers saying Wise was our best defensive player last game? He’s made zero impact to me And yes that was bananas when collinsworth said it. I guess he has graded out the best on our defense according to PFF though. I personally think Judon and JC Jackson are better and more important myself but I will say, Wise has been ultra sturdy so far
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 12:52:53 GMT -5
Gilmore traded to the Panthers for a 2023 sixth round pick. Nice to get something for him, but still a little disappointed with the outcome. Have to think there would have been better offers for him during the offseason or training camp. Wonder if Carolina gives him a salary bump or extension and, if so, how much. Lazar says they had a day 2 pick on the table for him at one point
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 12:55:12 GMT -5
I'd love to add Collins, then add Smith. If you gave Bentley role to Smith you might actually be able to stop the run. You have PFF, are his grades good versus the run and bad versus the pass? This year Smiths run grade is 37.4 which is god awful (35 snaps) and his coverage grade is 82.2 (103 snaps) which is really good. His run defense was bad poor year as well (47.1), while his coverage grade was 64.4. Per their grading he’s remained a great tackler, but his play has declined. Word is the Cowboys were ready to move on because they have better players and are worried about how he’s moving and there is a large injury guarantee in his contract they want to avoid. Feedback I’ve seen from cowboys fans is that his straight line speed is fine but all the other agility stuff is declining in a big way. Makes sense given the knee. You’d figure the PFF grades would almost be reversed if that was the case though. From what I gather a big part of this move was getting away from the injury guarantees of next season. Keanu Neal just came back and they started playing Smith less this past week too Guy turned a borderline tragic situation into a hell of a career where he made more money than anybody could have possibly expected….so even if he’s a vet min guy from here on out he did quite well for himself
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 12:58:51 GMT -5
Oh great so now we can play him November 7th.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 6, 2021 13:08:51 GMT -5
I'd love to add Collins, then add Smith. If you gave Bentley role to Smith you might actually be able to stop the run. You have PFF, are his grades good versus the run and bad versus the pass? This year Smiths run grade is 37.4 which is god awful (35 snaps) and his coverage grade is 82.2 (103 snaps) which is really good. His run defense was bad poor year as well (47.1), while his coverage grade was 64.4. Per their grading he’s remained a great tackler, but his play has declined. Word is the Cowboys were ready to move on because they have better players and are worried about how he’s moving and there is a large injury guarantee in his contract they want to avoid. Wait what? He's been targeted 10 times, 9 catches and allowing 93 QB rating and that gets him a crazy good coverage grade? He's allowed over 70% completion percentage and over a 100 QB rating for the last three years per Football Refrence. That's just horrible, even Bentley last year was 77% and 96 QB rating. I'm beginning to really question PFF grades.
|
|
|
Post by kingofthetrill on Oct 6, 2021 13:24:07 GMT -5
These sort of things highlight that I will never understand NFL trades as a business. Not complaining, I'm just only used to baseball trades so my perception of value is off.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
|
Post by mobaz on Oct 6, 2021 14:28:10 GMT -5
These sort of things highlight that I will never understand NFL trades as a business. Not complaining, I'm just only used to baseball trades so my perception of value is off. As far as logic goes Baseball Trades >> NBA trades > NFL trades. Everyone who wants a salary cap in MLB take note, you'll get nonsense trades!
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Oct 6, 2021 16:05:55 GMT -5
This year Smiths run grade is 37.4 which is god awful (35 snaps) and his coverage grade is 82.2 (103 snaps) which is really good. His run defense was bad poor year as well (47.1), while his coverage grade was 64.4. Per their grading he’s remained a great tackler, but his play has declined. Word is the Cowboys were ready to move on because they have better players and are worried about how he’s moving and there is a large injury guarantee in his contract they want to avoid. Wait what? He's been targeted 10 times, 9 catches and allowing 93 QB rating and that gets him a crazy good coverage grade? He's allowed over 70% completion percentage and over a 100 QB rating for the last three years per Football Refrence. That's just horrible, even Bentley last year was 77% and 96 QB rating. I'm beginning to really question PFF grades. From PFF. GRADES VS. STATS We aren’t grading players based on the yardage they rack up or the stats they collect. Statistics can be indicative of performance but don’t tell the whole story and can often lie badly. Quarterbacks can throw the ball straight to defenders but if the ball is dropped, you won't see it on the stat sheet. Conversely, they can dump the ball off on a sequence of screen passes and end up with a gaudy looking stat line if those skill position players do enough work after the catch. PFF grades the play, not its result, so the quarterback that throws the ball to defenders will be downgraded whether the defender catches the ball to notch the interception on the stat sheet or not. No amount of broken tackles and yards after the catch from a bubble screen will earn a quarterback a better grade, even though his passing stats may be getting padded. The same is true for most positions. Statistics can be misleading. A tackle whose quarterback gets the ball out of his hands quicker than anybody else may not give up many sacks, but he can still be beaten often and earn a poor grade. Receivers that are targeted relentlessly could post big-time numbers but may offer little more than the product of a volume-based aerial attack. Here’s a great example from the 2016 season as to why grades and stats may not match up: In 2016, Atlanta Falcons edge rusher Vic Beasley led the NFL in sacks in a breakout season for the NFC Champions, but he was only the 31st-ranked edge rusher in terms of PFF pass-rushing grade. Here are some of the things to note about how Beasley rated in our system: Not all sacks are created equal Beasley sacked the quarterback 16 times, but eight of those sixteen were either unblocked or clean-up sacks that owed more to somebody else flushing the quarterback towards where Beasley was than they did to him beating a blocker to make the play. PFF grading takes into account the quality of the play made to get the sack, and excellent plays to defeat blocks will be graded higher than sacks where the quarterback just happened to be flushed past a player as he was being blocked only to get taken down. Pressures matter All pass-rushers are trying to sack the quarterback, but even the best will only do so on around three percent of their snaps on the field. Hits and hurries combine with sacks to form a much more robust picture of total pressure generated. Pressure that does not result in a sack is important too, as just pressuring the quarterback sees an average drop in passer rating of 32.0 points from 94.4 to 61.8 over the past 10 years. That’s the equivalent of turning Ben Roethlisberger into Blaine Gabbert just by hurrying him in the pocket. Beasley led the league in sacks, but he was just 18th even among edge defenders when it comes to total pressures. Compare that to a player like Oakland’s Khalil Mack who led the league with 96 combined sacks, hits and hurries, and Beasley has a significant deficit in total pressure. When we used our analytics to run numbers to find out just how valuable pressure was compared to sacks, our Expected Points Added data showed that a sack is worth around 2.1 pressures of any other kind. So, a player like Mack would only need to have had an extra 11 hits or hurries to have added more value as a pass-rusher than Beasley despite having five fewer sacks over the season. Mack, in reality, had 40 more pressures, and so had a significantly higher PFF grade than Beasley. Run defense matters Mack’s overall grade of 95.2 was also far higher than Beasley’s 74.2 because Khalil Mack was one of the best run defenders in the game, capable of shedding blocks and knifing into the backfield to blow up plays. Beasley wasn’t nearly as accomplished in this area, an area that can get lost in all the talk of sacks but is counted in the PFF grading.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,865
|
Post by cdj on Oct 6, 2021 18:39:21 GMT -5
PFF had Wilfork rated pretty low one year in his prime iirc and at that moment I realized that it’s an interesting tool when used in context, but certainly not the end all-be all. For instance I’m sure he’d get dinged for not generating pressure up the middle but that wasn’t really his responsibility, his role was to basically hold up neutral against double teams and eat space so the backers can either make a play on the RB or QB
|
|
|
Post by beasleyrockah on Oct 6, 2021 19:20:08 GMT -5
PFF had Wilfork rated pretty low one year in his prime iirc and at that moment I realized that it’s an interesting tool when used in context, but certainly not the end all-be all. For instance I’m sure he’d get dinged for not generating pressure up the middle but that wasn’t really his responsibility, his role was to basically hold up neutral against double teams and eat space so the backers can either make a play on the RB or QB Right. For one example, only citing stats when you're targeted as the closest defender is not nearly enough to make an evaluation on overall pass coverage skills. The coverage on plays where they aren't targeted matters too, because if that defender didn't do his job he could've been targeted. Sometimes, you're covering a guy who isn't going to see a target regardless, each play is its own situation. You may be put in a spot to cover a guy you shouldn't be tasked with due to a bad supporting cast of teammates. Also, sometimes you end up as the closest defender but weren't tasked with that receiver and simply had the range to lend help. There are so many variables to pass coverage. PFF scores are interesting and helpful for us fans, but it's not even close to fWAR/bWAR for baseball, and those aren't infallible either.
|
|
|