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Red Sox vs. Astros 2021 ALCS Gameday Thread
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Post by patford on Oct 21, 2021 14:53:35 GMT -5
Well tip of the hat to Sale who came through in a big way. The real story of the past two games is the Sox bats going back to sleep.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 21, 2021 14:54:07 GMT -5
I wish I had recorded it but it was pretty clear that Valdez had some "sticky stuff" on his left temple area. He would dab his finger tip before the pitch and then wipe his head clean as he walked off the mound and prepared for inspection. Several others on this site saw it as well. ref: page 110 of this thread I noticed and mentioned it also. It was shiny and unlike sweat after he ran his finger thru it you could actually see where he swiped, there was a path left by the finger. I don't think a swipe mark would be left in sweat. There's smoke and fire to this. All of a sudden they're hitting everything and pitching lights out. Framber Valdez looked like prime Steve Carlton last night. Now we know why. Question is does the league have the balls to do anything about it? Probably not.
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 21, 2021 15:05:01 GMT -5
I noticed and mentioned it also. It was shiny and unlike sweat after he ran his finger thru it you could actually see where he swiped, there was a path left by the finger. I don't think a swipe mark would be left in sweat. There's smoke and fire to this. All of a sudden they're hitting everything and pitching lights out. Framber Valdez looked like prime Steve Carlton last night. Now we know why. Question is does the league have the balls to do anything about it? Probably not. I am hoping someone here has the game recorded and can post a few clips of Valdez dabbing his finger and then leaving the field while wiping the side of his head. I have searched some online and just get highlights in which he is already in his wind up. Very surprised this wasn't noticed and reported by our manager.....Years ago opposing managers would regularly ask for Gaylord Perry, etc to be checked. Is that still allowed or do current rules forbid it??
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 21, 2021 15:18:10 GMT -5
I hope this isn't a pre-curser to someone going on the DL.....Houck has only pitched 2 innings since Oct 8th. He didn't have nis normal stuff in the 1 inning he has pitched this series and I can't even recall seeing him warming in the pen since then(unless I missed it). www.nbcsportsedge.com/baseball/mlb/player/14600/phillips-valdez
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2021 15:24:05 GMT -5
I was kinda kidding, but if you look back over the threads, CVaz has gotten destroyed, X has taken a beating, Schwarber has gad some lumps, Arroyo has been brutalized, Sale was scrutinized etc etc. It has been rough. I guess I just figure guys can have a few rough games in a row any time. That doesn’t cancel the good they did to help the team get much farther this season than anyone dreamed. The criticisms of Bogarts have been especially embarrassing. There's a certain strain of fandom that seems to want to hate one's team and its players. Maybe a projection of self-loathing? I dunno... I think we all have biases, and then they get out of control. When a team loses, it is almost always collective, but it is probably natural to cite your own bete noire as *especially* at fault, when (with exceptions) it is not that simple. Then we feel like our hates are affirmed.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 21, 2021 15:38:35 GMT -5
I was really ticked off when i watched Felger and Mazz after the 12-3 bowout when Felger in his almighty wisdom declared that it was over they are not going back to Houston the Astros bullpen is speant and the Sox are just teeing off and Murray went right along saying the same thing. Mazz, to his credit, said that it wasn't a given and by god he was right. I would like to tell Felger and Murray...Hey idiots the next game wasn't played yet. You don't know what you are talking about and in fact you probably jinxed them just as much as Erod's antics.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 21, 2021 15:41:15 GMT -5
There's smoke and fire to this. All of a sudden they're hitting everything and pitching lights out. Framber Valdez looked like prime Steve Carlton last night. Now we know why. Question is does the league have the balls to do anything about it? Probably not. I am hoping someone here has the game recorded and can post a few clips of Valdez dabbing his finger and then leaving the field while wiping the side of his head. I have searched some online and just get highlights in which he is already in his wind up. Very surprised this wasn't noticed and reported by our manager.....Years ago opposing managers would regularly ask for Gaylord Perry, etc to be checked. Is that still allowed or do current rules forbid i
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Post by foreverred9 on Oct 21, 2021 15:56:07 GMT -5
I was really ticked off when i watched Felger and Mazz after the 12-3 bowout when Felger in his almighty wisdom declared that it was over they are not going back to Houston the Astros bullpen is speant and the Sox are just teeing off and Murray went right along saying the same thing. Mazz, to his credit, said that it wasn't a given and by god he was right. I would like to tell Felger and Murray...Hey idiots the next game wasn't played yet. You don't know what you are talking about and in fact you probably jinxed them just as much as Erod's antics. Here's the thing... people don't listen to your show if all you do is rain on someone's parade (or vice versa, say that things are fine when the ship is sinking). We see it hear on this board as well, it's hard to reign in the consensus emotion. So while we blame the media, they embody what our general society wants to hear. And there's no way that the things two blowhards say on the radio jinx a team. Unless they do something like (1) provide a take strong enough that it becomes bulletin board material or (2) they get into the heads of the team and they become overconfidence.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 21, 2021 15:59:21 GMT -5
I would like to point out that whatever happens on Friday, the Sox have gone far above anybody's predictions...The Yankees are gone...The Rays are gone...The Astros have the upper hand, but the Sox are still there. No one had them getting even close to a World Series and we are spoiled because they are still in there fighting.
Renfroe has disappeared in the playoffs, but he was one of the main reasons that they made the playoffs with outstanding throws from the outfield and clutch hitting throughout the season. It is disappointing that he hasn't contributed in the post season, but others are there to pick him up.
I am very happy that they had a chance to get to the World Series at all. I am sure Bloom must be in awe of Cora's job of getting these players motivated throughout the season.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 21, 2021 15:59:58 GMT -5
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 21, 2021 16:44:36 GMT -5
Definitely worried about Houck though. His arm looked a little slower, so he’s not getting on top of his delivery which really impacts his slider (low 3/4 delivery guys always have that balancing act). Maybe the rest solved that, but if he’s limited that really explains how much Cora has been handcuffed the past few games
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2021 17:08:21 GMT -5
Definitely worried about Houck though. His arm looked a little slower, so he’s not getting on top of his delivery which really impacts his slider (low 3/4 delivery guys always have that balancing act). Maybe the rest solved that, but if he’s limited that really explains how much Cora has been handcuffed the past few games Makes sense. I would have thought an inning on Game 4 or the 6th inning in Game 5 might have made sense for Houck to pitch in. He had a lot of activity from that last start in Washington to the relief outing in NY to the 5 inning relief stint in Game 2 of the ALDS. He wasn't sharp in 2 relief outings after that. His lack of appearances after surrendering the game tying 6th inning HR to Altuve was a bit puzzling. I hope they're just resting him, but I'd have thought he would have been a high leverage option the past couple of games. Definitely worrisome.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 21, 2021 22:32:11 GMT -5
Renfroe should never have been an everyday right fielder. Part of that is the Benintendi trade was dumb and didn’t work and thats not Renfroe’s fault.
I’m happy with how the season went regardless of how it plays out but it will still be really tough wondering what if should the Braves upset the Dodgers. If that happens Ill just think we were one big hit in Game 4 from going up 3-1 and probably taking this series.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 21, 2021 22:48:55 GMT -5
I was really ticked off when i watched Felger and Mazz after the 12-3 bowout when Felger in his almighty wisdom declared that it was over they are not going back to Houston the Astros bullpen is speant and the Sox are just teeing off and Murray went right along saying the same thing. Mazz, to his credit, said that it wasn't a given and by god he was right. I would like to tell Felger and Murray...Hey idiots the next game wasn't played yet. You don't know what you are talking about and in fact you probably jinxed them just as much as Erod's antics. Here's the thing... people don't listen to your show if all you do is rain on someone's parade (or vice versa, say that things are fine when the ship is sinking). We see it hear on this board as well, it's hard to reign in the consensus emotion. So while we blame the media, they embody what our general society wants to hear.
And there's no way that the things two blowhards say on the radio jinx a team. Unless they do something like (1) provide a take strong enough that it becomes bulletin board material or (2) they get into the heads of the team and they become overconfidence. But that's the mystery to me. As with watching cable news, I have no idea why anyone would willingly subject themselves to such stuff, let alone enjoy it.
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Post by manfred on Oct 22, 2021 0:05:58 GMT -5
Here's the thing... people don't listen to your show if all you do is rain on someone's parade (or vice versa, say that things are fine when the ship is sinking). We see it hear on this board as well, it's hard to reign in the consensus emotion. So while we blame the media, they embody what our general society wants to hear.
And there's no way that the things two blowhards say on the radio jinx a team. Unless they do something like (1) provide a take strong enough that it becomes bulletin board material or (2) they get into the heads of the team and they become overconfidence. But that's the mystery to me. As with watching cable news, I have no idea why anyone would willingly subject themselves to such stuff, let alone enjoy it. Nothing represents “general society.” A cable news show is #1 with a few million viewers, which is under 1% of the population. Even major sporting events have a small overall share of viewers. The days of the MASH finale or the Beatles on Ed Sullivan (74,000,000 viewers in 1964!) are gone.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,681
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Post by cdj on Oct 22, 2021 6:19:10 GMT -5
Renfroe should never have been an everyday right fielder. Part of that is the Benintendi trade was dumb and didn’t work and thats not Renfroe’s fault. I’m happy with how the season went regardless of how it plays out but it will still be really tough wondering what if should the Braves upset the Dodgers. If that happens Ill just think we were one big hit in Game 4 from going up 3-1 and probably taking this series. I get that hating Renfroe is hot in the streets right now and it’s justified given the series he is playing but lets be real- most teams would take a starting RF that goes .259/.315/.501 with 31 bombs and a missile arm
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 22, 2021 7:06:10 GMT -5
Renfroe should never have been an everyday right fielder. Part of that is the Benintendi trade was dumb and didn’t work and thats not Renfroe’s fault. I’m happy with how the season went regardless of how it plays out but it will still be really tough wondering what if should the Braves upset the Dodgers. If that happens Ill just think we were one big hit in Game 4 from going up 3-1 and probably taking this series. I get that hating Renfroe is hot in the streets right now and it’s justified given the series he is playing but lets be real- most teams would take a starting RF that goes .259/.315/.501 with 31 bombs and a missile arm The idea was to platoon Franchy with Renfroe. In hindsight they should’ve just kept Benintendi rather than trade him for a bad outfielder and low level prospects.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,681
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Post by cdj on Oct 22, 2021 7:29:55 GMT -5
I get that hating Renfroe is hot in the streets right now and it’s justified given the series he is playing but lets be real- most teams would take a starting RF that goes .259/.315/.501 with 31 bombs and a missile arm The idea was to platoon Franchy with Renfroe. In hindsight they should’ve just kept Benintendi rather than trade him for a bad outfielder and low level prospects. Renfroe WAR 2.5 Benintendi WAR 2.4 So yeah give me the pop with a missile and the cheaper contract. Also Renfroe was fine against righties (.777 OPS)
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Post by incandenza on Oct 22, 2021 7:52:05 GMT -5
The idea was to platoon Franchy with Renfroe. In hindsight they should’ve just kept Benintendi rather than trade him for a bad outfielder and low level prospects. Renfroe WAR 2.5 Benintendi WAR 2.4 So yeah give me the pop with a missile and the cheaper contract. Also Renfroe was fine against righties (.777 OPS) Or by fWAR it's Renfroe 1.8, Benintendi 2.1. Call that a wash. But the replacement for Benintendi was actually Renfroe + Franchy, who combined for 1.0 fWAR. The trade cost the Red Sox about 1 win this season.
You could still defend the trade on the grounds that Renfroe has one more year of control than Benintendi plus they added four other prospects in the deal. But I think it was clearly not a good exchange of talent for this season because of how much it cost them to play Franchy.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 22, 2021 8:15:50 GMT -5
When was the last time the Sox had somebody have.
89 runs, 31 HRs, 96 rbi, while batting in the 6th or 7th hole?
I know most of you look at this differently as far as stats go but regardless of that, how many teams had a guy like that batting 6 or 7? Would his numbers been better batting higher?
As far as I am concerned he is a big reason the Sox even made the playoffs, advanced statistics be damned. Heck he single handedly won games in Sept. with his bat and his defense.
edit. Did Benny, batting at the top of the order, even come close to having the same impact for KC? NOO!
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Post by greenmonster on Oct 22, 2021 8:25:56 GMT -5
When was the last time the Sox had somebody have. 89 runs, 31 HRs, 96 rbi, while batting in the 6th or 7th hole? I know most of you look at this differently as far as stats go but regardless of that, how many teams had a guy like that batting 6 or 7? Would his numbers been better batting higher? As far as I am concerned he is a big reason the Sox even made the playoffs, advanced statistics be damned. Heck he single handedly won games in Sept. with his bat and his defense. edit. Did Benny, batting at the top of the order, even come close to having the same impact for KC? NOO! 1979 Butch Hobson comes to mind.....not many others
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 22, 2021 8:32:41 GMT -5
When was the last time the Sox had somebody have. 89 runs, 31 HRs, 96 rbi, while batting in the 6th or 7th hole? I know most of you look at this differently as far as stats go but regardless of that, how many teams had a guy like that batting 6 or 7? Would his numbers been better batting higher? As far as I am concerned he is a big reason the Sox even made the playoffs, advanced statistics be damned. Heck he single handedly won games in Sept. with his bat and his defense. edit. Did Benny, batting at the top of the order, even come close to having the same impact for KC? NOO! 1979 Butch Hobson comes to mind.....not many others That is who came to mind for me also.
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 22, 2021 8:40:39 GMT -5
So it’s Garcia tonight, is it? 16 runs in his last three starts, a total of 8.2 innings.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 22, 2021 8:52:51 GMT -5
When was the last time the Sox had somebody have. 89 runs, 31 HRs, 96 rbi, while batting in the 6th or 7th hole? I know most of you look at this differently as far as stats go but regardless of that, how many teams had a guy like that batting 6 or 7? Would his numbers been better batting higher? As far as I am concerned he is a big reason the Sox even made the playoffs, advanced statistics be damned. Heck he single handedly won games in Sept. with his bat and his defense. edit. Did Benny, batting at the top of the order, even come close to having the same impact for KC? NOO! Do you know that about Benintendi? How much did you watch him play? For what it's worth, Benintendi had a WPA of 0.80 and Renfroe's was 0.59.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 22, 2021 9:12:25 GMT -5
Benny 63 runs scored 73 rbis 766 OPS batting 2,3 in the order Renfroe 89.... 96... 816 OPS batting 6,7
Last I checked runs matter. If you were a GM who would have more trade value?
Would you have rathered the Sox had Benny instead of Hunter this past season?
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