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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
wcp3
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Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 16, 2022 22:40:36 GMT -5
A beatable team I guess, but lets be serious - the Warriors are arguably the best dynasty ever, up there with the Bulls and Spurs. Are we really going to be prisoners of the moment? We went from .500 to Game 6 of the Finals against a perennial dynasty and top 10 player of all time. That's nothing to sneeze at. This was one of the hardest roads to the finals EVER, lets not do revisionist history here - and this team passed with flying colors. KD and Kyrie, the best player in the world, and the number 1 seed that eliminated us previously. This was a magical run. Talk about Revisionist...The Nets had zero synergy after Kyrie taking 80% of the year off. Middleton injured, or the Celtics easily lose to the Bucks. The Heat barely walking, incredibly beat up, and the Celtics still almost choked it away. In sports you hear "the things you can't teach" a lot. I will always root for the laundry, but I will forever be disgusted when I see outright stupidity--outright quitting. I honestly think this core, mostly Tatum, Brown and Smart have too much of the bad stuff you can't teach. They play outright dumb too often. Dribbling into double and triple teams, throwing passes directly to other the team, throwing up absurdly bad % shots. Getting up in the air and no knowing what they're doing far too often. Hero ball, iso ball, taking defense series completely off. Sure, the refs were a factor and should not have been in a perfect world, and some of their calls were inexcusably bad. This team beat itself. They beat themselves over, and over, and over again. With the level of talent and athleticism this team has, they should not have come up short this run. Flat out. They should not have been a .500 team last year either, so the "turnaround" is a joke to me. They're not progressing like they should be, working on the parts of their game like they should be. Tatum still looks uncomfortable dribbling the basketball too often. Dude needs to work on his handle. Quitting team, soft team, mentally dim team. Disappointing for a long time fan to have this as your current core you're supposed to have high hopes for into the future. When is the next rebuild? Can't come too soon. Okay, this is extreme even for me. They just made the finals with a core that’s 24, 24, 25, and 28. They have work to do - both in terms of current players and who they bring in to improve the team - but there’s a lot to build on including a historically good defense. |
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Post by jmei on Jun 16, 2022 22:41:08 GMT -5
OK these Warriors owners are pretty hateable.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 16, 2022 22:42:40 GMT -5
Beating three decent teams and losing to a beatable one is not the most impressive playoff run. There are lots of holes on this roster, but none of those matter if Smart and the Jays don’t stop playing like idiots in big moments. A beatable team I guess, but lets be serious and realistic for a moment - the Warriors are arguably the best dynasty literally EVER in modern NBA history, up there with the Bulls and Spurs. Are we really going to be prisoners of the moment? We went from below .500, literally out of the playoffs, to Game 6 of the Finals against a perennial dynasty and top 10 player of all time. That's nothing to sneeze at. This was one of the hardest roads to the finals EVER, lets not do revisionist history here - and this team passed with flying colors. KD and Kyrie, the best player in the world and defending champs, and the number 1 seed that eliminated us previously against a cold blooded playoff killer in Butler and one of the best coaches ever in Spo. This was a magical run. We were without our starting center and actual DPOY for a lot of it, our starting PG for some of it, and some of it Tatum was playing hurt. This run was incredible. Preach brother. We live in a world where the "truth" is written to confirm the result not the reality of what actually occurred. The truth is scorned by the masses. Hot takes is everything today regardless of how truly clueless it is. Bold assertions based on nothing is the quick takes. The reality is we have one of the youngest most experienced core in the league. The same core could come back next year and win. Often it takes losing and experience to win. To say we need to break this down is such a knee jerk donkey reaction, it makes me wonder if you've followed sports for more than one or two years. Sometimes the worse thing you can do is break things apart. First year coach with a team that was knocked out of the first round last year that made it to game 6 Finals. Anyone can say whatever they want but the previous statement trumps all the negative non-sense that less than true fans will ever make claims too. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 22:43:47 GMT -5
A beatable team I guess, but lets be serious - the Warriors are arguably the best dynasty ever, up there with the Bulls and Spurs. Are we really going to be prisoners of the moment? We went from .500 to Game 6 of the Finals against a perennial dynasty and top 10 player of all time. That's nothing to sneeze at. This was one of the hardest roads to the finals EVER, lets not do revisionist history here - and this team passed with flying colors. KD and Kyrie, the best player in the world, and the number 1 seed that eliminated us previously. This was a magical run. Talk about Revisionist...The Nets had zero synergy after Kyrie taking 80% of the year off. Middleton injured, or the Celtics easily lose to the Bucks. The Heat barely walking, incredibly beat up, and the Celtics still almost choked it away. In sports you hear "the things you can't teach" a lot. I will always root for the laundry, but I will forever be disgusted when I see outright stupidity--outright quitting. I honestly think this core, mostly Tatum, Brown and Smart have too much of the bad stuff you can't teach. They play outright dumb too often. Dribbling into double and triple teams, throwing passes directly to other the team, throwing up absurdly bad % shots. Getting up in the air and not knowing what they're doing far too often. Hero ball, iso ball, taking defense series completely off. Sure, the refs were a factor and should not have been in a perfect world, and some of their calls were inexcusably bad. This team beat itself. They beat themselves over, and over, and over again. With the level of talent and athleticism this team has, they should not have come up short this run. Flat out. They should not have been a .500 team last year either, so the "turnaround" is a joke to me. They're not progressing like they should be, working on the parts of their game like they should be. Tatum still looks uncomfortable dribbling the basketball too often. Dude needs to work on his handle. Quitting team, soft team, mentally dim team. Disappointing for a long time fan to have this as your current core you're supposed to have high hopes for into the future. When is the next rebuild? Can't come too soon. I think the most telling thing that we are finding out about Tatum is that I don't think he has that "killer instinct or refuse to lose" attitude that the elite of the elite players and HOFs like Kobe and Pierce had. I don't see that he has it. This is the Celtics building block supposedly the next 5 years. |
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 16, 2022 22:45:03 GMT -5
I can't even argue with you all. Stop thinking that the Celtics are golden children who only beat themselves and start giving credit to their opponents. We're just going to ignore our key 3rd impact player being injured all this playoffs I see, okay. We'll also ignore the Smart injury because its convenient. We'll also ignore the Tatum injury because its convenient and pretend that he made it up. We're also going to ignore all these teams beating us previously in other playoff runs, okay. We're going to ignore that 2 of those teams had better regular season records than us as well, okay. We're also going to ignore GS having some of the best players and most experienced and winningest players of all time, okay. The mental gymnastics you all go through to take credit away from the Celtics opponents are hilarious. It was an incredible run full stop. People made these same arguments when we used to lose with Kemba and Theis even though we had no business beating those teams when we lost. Its gross and entitled to argue this way. Now we have people really talking about blowing it up because we have too many stupid habits after losing to one of the best dynasties ever. Okay. The Celtics are a PERENNIAL WINNER. We have multiple ECF appearances and now a Finals appearance over the past 5 seasons. Step away from the ledge. Ians you think like a true winner. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,928 
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 22:49:01 GMT -5
Well boys it was a hell of a run.
Get a bench scorer with the TPE and grow from this. Have to walk before you run in this league and Tatum would’ve been younger than pretty much any of the modern greats were when they won had he won a ring this year
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 16, 2022 22:49:31 GMT -5
Talk about Revisionist...The Nets had zero synergy after Kyrie taking 80% of the year off. Middleton injured, or the Celtics easily lose to the Bucks. The Heat barely walking, incredibly beat up, and the Celtics still almost choked it away. In sports you hear "the things you can't teach" a lot. I will always root for the laundry, but I will forever be disgusted when I see outright stupidity--outright quitting. I honestly think this core, mostly Tatum, Brown and Smart have too much of the bad stuff you can't teach. They play outright dumb too often. Dribbling into double and triple teams, throwing passes directly to other the team, throwing up absurdly bad % shots. Getting up in the air and not knowing what they're doing far too often. Hero ball, iso ball, taking defense series completely off. Sure, the refs were a factor and should not have been in a perfect world, and some of their calls were inexcusably bad. This team beat itself. They beat themselves over, and over, and over again. With the level of talent and athleticism this team has, they should not have come up short this run. Flat out. They should not have been a .500 team last year either, so the "turnaround" is a joke to me. They're not progressing like they should be, working on the parts of their game like they should be. Tatum still looks uncomfortable dribbling the basketball too often. Dude needs to work on his handle. Quitting team, soft team, mentally dim team. Disappointing for a long time fan to have this as your current core you're supposed to have high hopes for into the future. When is the next rebuild? Can't come too soon. I think the most telling thing that we are finding out about Tatum is that I don't think he has that "killer instinct or refuse to lose" attitude that the elite of the elite players and HOFs like Kobe and Pierce had. I don't see that he has it. This is the Celtics building block supposedly the next 5 years. So if you don't win the first go round, you don't have it?  Listen very very very few people are winners or losers. That narrative is a false one. Entirely false, so much so I call that an actual truth. The truth is nearly all people both lose and win their entire lives, losers win and winners lose, and that is an actual fact, once you recognize that truth you look at things slightly different. Learn that and love that. |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 16, 2022 22:50:18 GMT -5
Talk about Revisionist...The Nets had zero synergy after Kyrie taking 80% of the year off. Middleton injured, or the Celtics easily lose to the Bucks. The Heat barely walking, incredibly beat up, and the Celtics still almost choked it away. In sports you hear "the things you can't teach" a lot. I will always root for the laundry, but I will forever be disgusted when I see outright stupidity--outright quitting. I honestly think this core, mostly Tatum, Brown and Smart have too much of the bad stuff you can't teach. They play outright dumb too often. Dribbling into double and triple teams, throwing passes directly to other the team, throwing up absurdly bad % shots. Getting up in the air and not knowing what they're doing far too often. Hero ball, iso ball, taking defense series completely off. Sure, the refs were a factor and should not have been in a perfect world, and some of their calls were inexcusably bad. This team beat itself. They beat themselves over, and over, and over again. With the level of talent and athleticism this team has, they should not have come up short this run. Flat out. They should not have been a .500 team last year either, so the "turnaround" is a joke to me. They're not progressing like they should be, working on the parts of their game like they should be. Tatum still looks uncomfortable dribbling the basketball too often. Dude needs to work on his handle. Quitting team, soft team, mentally dim team. Disappointing for a long time fan to have this as your current core you're supposed to have high hopes for into the future. When is the next rebuild? Can't come too soon. I think the most telling thing that we are finding out about Tatum is that I don't think he has that "killer instinct or refuse to lose" attitude that the elite of the elite players and HOFs like Kobe and Pierce had. I don't see that he has it. This is the Celtics building block supposedly the next 5 years. It’s really easy to pick on Tatum right now, and a lot of it’s deserved after his finals performance. But I’m extremely comfortable with him being the team’s building block for the next 5 years. He’s already better than Pierce was in his prime, and while he isn’t quite at Kobe’s level, I’m okay with him not playing the same way. His playmaking was one of the biggest contributors to the Celtics’ turnaround this season. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,928
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 22:51:16 GMT -5
46 points on the road against the defending champs facing elimination Jayson Tatum?
Yeah man no competitive fire whatsoever. No killer instinct at all.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 16, 2022 22:57:58 GMT -5
Bird was a rookie at 24, Tatum was 24 this year. Not enough people have true perspectives on reality and love to talk in ultimatums. If you think this team can't win you have no perspective at all. I make the point that many teams that lose finals Can be brought back and actually win the next year if ONLY given the opportunity. GS window closed this year. If you make it to the finals and lose one year and win the next, how would you define that? how would you have defined that after losing the first year? The Celtics window opened this year. Only Milwaukee should be able to stop them next year from making the Finals again, that and health. The West is wide open next year.
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 22:58:33 GMT -5
46 points on the road against the defending champs facing elimination Jayson Tatum? Yeah man no competitive fire whatsoever. No killer instinct at all. He completely quit this game and ran out of gas. Look, we can be in denial about it and get defensive. I Hope he learns from it. This loss is going to stain his reputation for ar least a little while. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,928
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 23:05:41 GMT -5
46 points on the road against the defending champs facing elimination Jayson Tatum? Yeah man no competitive fire whatsoever. No killer instinct at all. He completely quit this game and ran out of gas. Look, we can be in denial about it and get defensive. I Hope he learns from it. This loss is going to stain his reputation for ar least a little while. You’re a very silly man if you think a bad finals game at 24 tarnishes his reputation. Maybe it does in the mind of absolute total dipshits I guess. Me personally? I feel great he’s the franchise cornerstone Again, nobody in the modern era has won a title earlier than Tatum would have had the series gone our way. There’s a reason for that. It was a bad performance. He ran into a dynasty with elite defense. Doesn’t have to be more than that unless you’re a sports-radio dweeb! We learned he’s not a 1 of 1 generational talent tonight. That’s about it. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 23:12:35 GMT -5
He completely quit this game and ran out of gas. Look, we can be in denial about it and get defensive. I Hope he learns from it. This loss is going to stain his reputation for ar least a little while. You’re a very silly man if you think a bad finals game at 24 tarnishes his reputation. Maybe it does in the mind of absolute total dipshits I guess Again, nobody in the modern era has won a title earlier than what Tatum would have had the series gone our way. There’s a reason for that. It was a bad performance. He ran into a dynasty with elite defense. Doesn’t have to be more than that unless you’re a sports-radio dweeb! No I'm not silly. Kobe Bryant played against Curry and I don't see him putting up a game like this. Kobe had 2 or 3 rings at Tatum's age. It's a tough comparison to make because Kobe is a all-time great, but that's the kind of pedestal we want to put Tatum on, right? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 23:14:04 GMT -5
You’re a very silly man if you think a bad finals game at 24 tarnishes his reputation. Maybe it does in the mind of absolute total dipshits I guess Again, nobody in the modern era has won a title earlier than what Tatum would have had the series gone our way. There’s a reason for that. It was a bad performance. He ran into a dynasty with elite defense. Doesn’t have to be more than that unless you’re a sports-radio dweeb! No I'm not silly. Kobe Bryant played against Curry and I don't see him putting up agake like this. Kobe had 2 or 3 rings at Tatum's age. It's a tough comparison to make because Kobe is a all-time great, but that's the kind of pedestal we want to put Tatum on, right? Kobe was the #2 behind the most dominant player of his era when he won those first rings. Hell the reason they were broken up is that Kobe was resentful of not being “the guy” in LA for those rings and wanted to get his own for his legacy. Took him awhile, and he needed another HOFer to do it. If the Celtics had prime Shaquille O’Neal they probably do win. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 23:16:57 GMT -5
No I'm not silly. Kobe Bryant played against Curry and I don't see him putting up agake like this. Kobe had 2 or 3 rings at Tatum's age. It's a tough comparison to make because Kobe is a all-time great, but that's the kind of pedestal we want to put Tatum on, right? Kobe was the #2 behind the most dominant player of his era when he won those first rings. Hell the reason they were broken up is that Kobe was resentful of not being the guy in LA for those rings and wanted to get his own If the Celtics had prime Shaquille O’Neal they probably do win. Shaq was a force but Kobe was the biggest piece of that dynasty by the end of that run. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 23:17:56 GMT -5
Kobe was the #2 behind the most dominant player of his era when he won those first rings. Hell the reason they were broken up is that Kobe was resentful of not being the guy in LA for those rings and wanted to get his own If the Celtics had prime Shaquille O’Neal they probably do win. Shaq was a force but Kobe was the biggest piece of that dynasty by the end of that run. yeah, after the rings were already won by the pair. Like you realize they moved Shaq and Shaq immediately won another ring while Kobe stayed in the doldrums right? It wasn’t because Shaq wasn’t a dominant force anymore. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 23:22:43 GMT -5
Another reason the Tatum legacy talk is dumb. There’s no context to it. Here, let me add some
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 23:26:34 GMT -5
Shaq was a force but Kobe was the biggest piece of that dynasty by the end of that run. yeah, after the rings were already won by the pair. Like you realize they moved Shaq and Shaq immediately won another ring while Kobe stayed in the doldrums right? It wasn’t because Shaq wasn’t a dominant force anymore. Shaq played with another rookie player with a killer instinct/Hof/another young great player in Dwayne Wade. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2022 23:33:45 GMT -5
yeah, after the rings were already won by the pair. Like you realize they moved Shaq and Shaq immediately won another ring while Kobe stayed in the doldrums right? It wasn’t because Shaq wasn’t a dominant force anymore. Shaq played with another rookie player with a killer instinct/Hof/another young great player in Dwayne Wade. If your argument is that every player who doesn’t win a ring by age 24 doesn’t have a killer instinct then it’s- again- very silly. That’s a long list of winners without a killer instinct |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 16, 2022 23:49:34 GMT -5
Shaq played with another rookie player with a killer instinct/Hof/another young great player in Dwayne Wade. If your argument is that every player who doesn’t win a ring by age 24 doesn’t have a killer instinct then it’s- again- very silly. That’s a long list of winners without a killer instinct [What I'm saying is this game was very disappointing, no matter how you look at it. No matter how old. The good thing is that he is young. Kobe learned after he lost bad to the Celtics 12 years ago and beat the Celtics the next year. I hope Tatum does that and this game leaves a bad taste in his mouth . It absolutely should and it is fair to question that killer instinct until he does it. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 17, 2022 0:44:52 GMT -5
One last defense of my opinion before it expands into a 50 page thing, is that Tatum isn't going to just hear about his performance locally with programs like "Felger and Mazz." He's going to be hearing it nationally from everywhere too...ESPN, NBA radio, former players.
They are all going to question Tatum after this game and you might hear- Quit, Gassed, soft, No killer instinct, is he a winning ballplayer.
I hope he hears it and it motivates him. This isn't going to be just my opinion. I guarantee it.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2022 8:52:47 GMT -5
I don’t understand the dichotomy of “give the Warriors credit for playing well” and “the Celtics blew a major opportunity due to a confluence of negative factors.”
A couple years ago in the bubble, there was a real worry that there wasn’t enough primary creation on a team lead by Tatum and Brown.
This playoff run validated that concern in a big way.
I still believe this team is as talented as any in the league. I also believe that they need to take a page out of the Warriors book and design offense for Jayson and Jaylen, rather than around them.
The Warriors fireworks (huge runs, unconscious catch and shooting, open cutters) and low points (high turnovers, issues in the half court) are predicated on an offense where it’s best players are rarely standing around ball watching. The movement that the best teams generate over the past 40 years is not isolating, pound it out ball stopping. There has been one player in history who has gotten away with it (Lebron James), and one other season I can remember where a championship was won because of it (Kawhi in Toronto, when Klay and KD went out with injury).
Kobe and Michael Jordan were unlocked when the triangle offense put them in positions where they were catching the ball in advantageous positions. For five years now, the Celtics have consistently reverted to offense where their best player tries to beat an entire squad on his own. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is learned from 1. Growing up with Lebron James being mainlined into your system, and 2. Developing on a team with Isaiah Thomas, Kyrie Irving, and Kemba Walker saying “let me show you how to play basketball. Sit over in the corner and wait until I say so.”
I just don’t think you can win basketball that way, not unless you’re Lebron James. And there’s only one of him. We’ve seen this kind of basketball fail in Houston with a more talented offensive force in James Harden. And we’ve seen this kind of basketball fail in Dallas this season with a more talented offensive force in Luka Doncic. Jayson and Jaylen are not going to prove the exception to the rule.
The good news is, this team is awesome defensively. Boston really neutralized Golden State in the half court. Ime did a terrific job getting these guys to play hard for most of the year. He’s likely going to need help overhauling the offense, because he’s simply not at a Spoelstra/Kerr level schematically yet. But at least Boston has the defense figured out.
The best thing that could happen from this loss is that the organization realizes that the offense can’t continue to run this way if Boston is to become a dynastic power, much less win banner 18.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 17, 2022 12:28:04 GMT -5
I'm sad because this was a winnable series and there's no easy road back (ever). I'm disappointed because the team obviously ran out of gas at the end. Tatum's shoulder and minutes, Smart's whatevers, Horford suddenly looking his age, it all caught up to them. If they'd take care of business faster in Rd 2/3, might have had more legs.
I'm cautiously hopeful that the Jays will learn from this and (like nearly every other great player/team) use it as fuel as they head into their peaks. They are still basketball young and I hope they can get over the mental humps they need to. As a team, figuring out how to stop bad habits faster. Overall a great year but don't know how not to feel bittersweet.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 17, 2022 13:50:50 GMT -5
We don't deserve nice things.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2022 14:28:23 GMT -5
I don't think it was they ran out of gas, they stopped playing team ball 4th quarter game 4. The beautiful ball movement was basically gone at that point. Warriors went small, packed paint to take away Tatum and Browns drives. We never adjusted and it just fell apart like crazy after that.
Weird team, they need those in rhythm ball movement open 3s. It's like it makes the shooters better. When that stops, you got a lot of first half Celtics offense. Maybe they need more time or maybe they just can't resist going for the glory in the NBA finals. It's what's disappointing, they went away from what got them there at the worst possible time. Watching game one and then game 6, it's like two different teams on offense.
Just my two cents, yet Imes offense of having Brown and Tatum drive from 3 point line repeatedly won't work full-time. Add in getting those guys touches in the post like Paul Pierce. Learn how to probe the D for weaknesses in the mid range. Have different ways to attack the D and be able to adjust.
Yet most important, stop complaining to refs about everything! Create go to moves to create fouls, when you drive and shoot, do it to score. The horrible body language and complaining just has to stop. Refs aren't giving you fouls, adjust, man up and find a way to score or get teammates easy baskets.
It won't be easy, being a crazy all defensive team makes finding the right players to help Tatum and Brown hard. Yet a true PG that can create without a bunch of TOs would go a long way. Smart came a long way this season, he's just not good enough to take the pressure off Tatum and Brown. You really need a PG that can attack the D all the time and create offense without a ton of TOs. Smart and White are like combo guards. Pritchard uses the dribble and technique, not just speed and athletic ability. Unless you can find a guy like Green with the ability to dribble and get into the paint at will and create. Finding a PG that can do that is just easier or you might have to let up on your 100% all D game plan.
Good news is our Owner should be willing to use trade exception and tax paying mid-level and rack up a huge tax bill now. Let's see if Stevens can find the right pieces.
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Listen very very very few people are winners or losers. That narrative is a false one. Entirely false, so much so I call that an actual truth. The truth is nearly all people both lose and win their entire lives, losers win and winners lose, and that is an actual fact, once you recognize that truth you look at things slightly different. Learn that and love that. 
