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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 19, 2022 0:32:31 GMT -5
That season against the Maverick's in the playoffs was LeBron's only blemish, with talent and a failure. Indeed. He deserved all the blame for that. He got that blame, learned from it and formed his dynasty. What will Tatum do after this year? What will the Celtics do to help him? I'm not doing mental gymnastics. I'm just pointing out that the age isn't a excuse. Tatum had the chance to win it with enough talent, but blew it. Everyone wants to put him in the echelon of LeBron or Kobe. Making comparisons to him since he was a rookie. Well, he's got to prove it first and rebound from this. LeBron didn't need a killer instinct. He's arguably the dominant player in NBA History with how many great things he can do on a court. I would argue that LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct, either. That's why he's lost 4 times in the finals and he could have lost 5 or 6 times if it wasn't for Ray Allen or Kyrie Irving. He never took the game winning shot. He always passed the ball to give it to someone else. His biggest downfall (in clutch time), and his best attribute as a player. I do agree with you to some extent regarding LeBron’s lack of killer instinct, but it’s hard for me to say that about a guy that has won 4 rings. Some of those finals losses were just to straight up better teams (the Durant era Warriors in particular), but you’re not wrong regarding his lack of signature moments. That game 6 when he completely destroyed the Celtics in Boston while on the brink of elimination forever changed my opinion of him though, was a total Jordan moment. Prior to that I thought he was soft as hell and would never get it done. I, like every other Celtics fan, hope Tatum does learn from this, tunes out the outside noise and keeps improving his game. Despite his shortcomings he has made big leaps each season he’s been in the league, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him be an MVP candidate next year, but we shall see. Two things that I think the Celtics can do to help him are getting a PG that’s a better facilitator, and improving the bench BIG TIME. I think Grant and Pritchard will improve, but they were complete duds after the Milwaukee series. Getting an established scorer to take some pressure off the J’s would go a long way The only player LeBron can be compared to is Wilt Chamberlain. He was good enough to win in any year. Him chocking, him playing GM, him not having any talent until he got to the Heat got in his way. If Tatum wants to win he's going to have to get that killer instinct and step up in big games. He's good enough to take a game over, but he isn't LeBron in that sense. My apologies for calling the Heat a dynasty, too. They only won twice. That isn't a dynasty. As for the Celtics themselves, they need another starter. Al Horford turning back the clock isn't going to happen again. You can't count on Rob Williams to stay healthy. You have no real point guard. The rest of the team is a bunch of good role players besides the Jay's. The Celtics need to think big this off-season. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2022 4:34:34 GMT -5
Everyone has to stop the MJ and LeBron crap, they both were the top scorers in the NBA at age 23. They might be the two best players ever. They got drafted to crappy teams, look who they played with. Tatum was drafted to a stacked team with Hayward, Irving, Horford, Brown and Rozier. My God Mo Williams is what the best player LeBron had as a Cav before he left. Jordan needed to wait on the Bulls drafting Pippen and Grant, while building a crappy team into a good one. Tatum isn't MJ or LeBron, zero doubt both guys win a championship at age 23 if they were on this Celtics team. Does anyone really think Tatum is going to be in the discussion for best player of all time? I love the guy, he's just not the athlete those two were and never will be. Those guys got let down by crappy teams and lack of talent at a young age, Tatum just let the Celtics down. I'm sorry, yet that's what happend, our best player was crap in the finals, that's why we lost. That's not dynasty Warriors team, I'd be fine if Tatum played great and just ran into a much better team, that's not what just happened.
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Post by jmei on Jun 19, 2022 10:42:55 GMT -5
Please steer clear of the petty bickering going forward. Thanks.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,928 
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Post by cdj on Jun 19, 2022 15:05:33 GMT -5
Everyone has to stop the MJ and LeBron crap, they both were the top scorers in the NBA at age 23. They might be the two best players ever. They got drafted to crappy teams, look who they played with. Tatum was drafted to a stacked team with Hayward, Irving, Horford, Brown and Rozier. My God Mo Williams is what the best player LeBron had as a Cav before he left. Jordan needed to wait on the Bulls drafting Pippen and Grant, while building a crappy team into a good one. Tatum isn't MJ or LeBron, zero doubt both guys win a championship at age 23 if they were on this Celtics team. Does anyone really think Tatum is going to be in the discussion for best player of all time? I love the guy, he's just not the athlete those two were and never will be. Those guys got let down by crappy teams and lack of talent at a young age, Tatum just let the Celtics down. I'm sorry, yet that's what happend, our best player was crap in the finals, that's why we lost. That's not dynasty Warriors team, I'd be fine if Tatum played great and just ran into a much better team, that's not what just happened. The entire point is that it’s hard to win when you’re that young in this league. Nobody is saying he’s Lebron or MJ. You can play your hypotheticals if you’d like but the reality remains that it’s incredibly difficult to win a title in this league as the best player on a team at age 24. There’s a reason why practically nobody does it. You act like we didn’t see Lebron get a super team and choke when he got to the finals at age like 26 or something |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2022 20:07:12 GMT -5
Everyone has to stop the MJ and LeBron crap, they both were the top scorers in the NBA at age 23. They might be the two best players ever. They got drafted to crappy teams, look who they played with. Tatum was drafted to a stacked team with Hayward, Irving, Horford, Brown and Rozier. My God Mo Williams is what the best player LeBron had as a Cav before he left. Jordan needed to wait on the Bulls drafting Pippen and Grant, while building a crappy team into a good one. Tatum isn't MJ or LeBron, zero doubt both guys win a championship at age 23 if they were on this Celtics team. Does anyone really think Tatum is going to be in the discussion for best player of all time? I love the guy, he's just not the athlete those two were and never will be. Those guys got let down by crappy teams and lack of talent at a young age, Tatum just let the Celtics down. I'm sorry, yet that's what happend, our best player was crap in the finals, that's why we lost. That's not dynasty Warriors team, I'd be fine if Tatum played great and just ran into a much better team, that's not what just happened. The entire point is that it’s hard to win when you’re that young in this league. Nobody is saying he’s Lebron or MJ. You can play your hypotheticals if you’d like but the reality remains that it’s incredibly difficult to win a title in this league as the best player on a team at age 24. There’s a reason why practically nobody does it. You act like we didn’t see Lebron get a super team and choke when he got to the finals at age like 26 or something Why is that though, age or lottery teams take years to build a title worry roster? Example Larry Bird second season age 24 won a championship as the best player. Why? He didn't go to a lottery team. Tim Duncan second year age 22 wins championship as teams best player, why? Team only got lottery pick due to injuries. That's not practically no one does it, just not many high lottery picks go to good teams. When they do they can have early success. Choke? He was third in FGA and shot 54.8% on two point shots, 47.8% overall, Tatum was the top FGA on the team, shooting 36.7% overall and 31.6% on two point shots. That Heat team lacked overall talent because they gutted it to get two stars, top 3 great, top 8 kinda horrible. Actually darn impressed by Lebrons team play that season. Wouldn't be saying a thing if Tatum just has a LeBron like finals. It would be the top 8 needs more talent. Hard to say that when Tatum shoots 36.7% from the field taking the most shots on team. 31.6% on 2 point shots, that crap will haunt him for the rest of his life. It was right there, we didn't even need Tatum to be unreal like Curry, he just couldn't be horrible. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,928
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Post by cdj on Jun 19, 2022 20:53:25 GMT -5
The entire point is that it’s hard to win when you’re that young in this league. Nobody is saying he’s Lebron or MJ. You can play your hypotheticals if you’d like but the reality remains that it’s incredibly difficult to win a title in this league as the best player on a team at age 24. There’s a reason why practically nobody does it. You act like we didn’t see Lebron get a super team and choke when he got to the finals at age like 26 or something Why is that though, age or lottery teams take years to build a title worry roster? Example Larry Bird second season age 24 won a championship as the best player. Why? He didn't go to a lottery team. Tim Duncan second year age 22 wins championship as teams best player, why? Team only got lottery pick due to injuries. That's not practically no one does it, just not many high lottery picks go to good teams. When they do they can have early success. Choke? He was third in FGA and shot 54.8% on two point shots, 47.8% overall, Tatum was the top FGA on the team, shooting 36.7% overall and 31.6% on two point shots. That Heat team lacked overall talent because they gutted it to get two stars, top 3 great, top 8 kinda horrible. Actually darn impressed by Lebrons team play that season. Wouldn't be saying a thing if Tatum just has a LeBron like finals. It would be the top 8 needs more talent. Hard to say that when Tatum shoots 36.7% from the field taking the most shots on team. 31.6% on 2 point shots, that crap will haunt him for the rest of his life. It was right there, we didn't even need Tatum to be unreal like Curry, he just couldn't be horrible. Did you not watch the 4th quarter of every game that series? There’s a reason there was a public narrative, which has been demonstrated to be something that some fans apparently care about in here People don’t win titles young! Your examples are a top 5 player ever from 40 years ago and Tim Duncan, who was still able to play with David Robinson who was arguably just as good at the time. Nobody else does it. There’s a reason for that, it’s hard to be do in a man’s league! Tatum sucked for a lot of the series, nobody is denying it! There’s just a reason for it- he’s still a growing player who got put under a lot of heat he hadn’t experienced before. Next time he will be ready. Also to act like this warriors team is nothing special after they sliced through the entire league like butter is LOL funny. Give them credit, it’s a continuation of their dynasty and it’s an elite defensive team. You may have a different opinion based off your feelsies but quite frankly reality doesn’t agree with it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 19, 2022 22:39:48 GMT -5
Why is that though, age or lottery teams take years to build a title worry roster? Example Larry Bird second season age 24 won a championship as the best player. Why? He didn't go to a lottery team. Tim Duncan second year age 22 wins championship as teams best player, why? Team only got lottery pick due to injuries. That's not practically no one does it, just not many high lottery picks go to good teams. When they do they can have early success. Choke? He was third in FGA and shot 54.8% on two point shots, 47.8% overall, Tatum was the top FGA on the team, shooting 36.7% overall and 31.6% on two point shots. That Heat team lacked overall talent because they gutted it to get two stars, top 3 great, top 8 kinda horrible. Actually darn impressed by Lebrons team play that season. Wouldn't be saying a thing if Tatum just has a LeBron like finals. It would be the top 8 needs more talent. Hard to say that when Tatum shoots 36.7% from the field taking the most shots on team. 31.6% on 2 point shots, that crap will haunt him for the rest of his life. It was right there, we didn't even need Tatum to be unreal like Curry, he just couldn't be horrible. Did you not watch the 4th quarter of every game that series? There’s a reason there was a public narrative, which has been demonstrated to be something that some fans apparently care about in here People don’t win titles young! Your examples are a top 5 player ever from 40 years ago and Tim Duncan, who was still able to play with David Robinson who was arguably just as good at the time. Nobody else does it. There’s a reason for that, it’s hard to be do in a man’s league! Tatum sucked for a lot of the series, nobody is denying it! There’s just a reason for it- he’s still a growing player who got put under a lot of heat he hadn’t experienced before. Next time he will be ready. Also to act like this warriors team is nothing special after they sliced through the entire league like butter is LOL funny. Give them credit, it’s a continuation of their dynasty and it’s an elite defensive team. You may have a different opinion based off your feelsies but quite frankly reality doesn’t agree with it. Wade age 24, Magic age 22, that's 10% of the Finals the last 40 years. You can debate Magic age 20, close on win share and finals MVP, same with Leonard age 22 close on win share, finals MVP. Funny thing, Tatum wasn't our leader in win share during the playoffs # 2 tied with Brown, almost equal to Robert Williams. Horford was, third in regular season, Tatum close second to Robert Williams. Which just shows you the talent Tatum had around him and how much his play dropped. I don't think Tatum is ever going to be in the best player ever discussion, yet top 5 at his position is certainly in play. Just depends on him. To drop some advanced stats on you about the two years you've comparing with Tatum and LeBron, .110 WS/48 versus .198 WS/48. People say lot of things doesn’t make them true. I 100% believe in needing playoff experience, being battle tested. I don't buy the you need to be a certain age crap. I also believe some players love the big stage and step up, while others wilt under the pressure. I'm not drawing any conclusions yet, yet it's a pattern and I'm starting to get worried. Tatum has to be one of the most battle tested players for his age in NBA history. Already third playoffs as top scorer, eight playoff series. 74 playoff games in his first five years, that's basically an extra season of playoff basketball. Don't mind me, I'm just pissed. This might have been there best chance with Horford playing out of his mind, Robert Williams with an all-time gut it out performance, Brown doing what he does. The bar for Tatum wasn't high, he didn't need some epic finals performance, 75% of what he is gets it done. I really can't give that much credit because it was the same thing we saw time and again against the Bucks, Heat and Warriors. It was as many unforced TOs as ones forced and look who the Warriors went through. Good team, not some crazy all-time great team that just had more talent. That's much easier to except, yet it's just not the case. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 19, 2022 23:47:24 GMT -5
Yeah UMass response is exactly why I started the conversation, does Tatum have that killer instinct to win?
It's a really fair question. It's actually okay to question that too at this point, with how much playoff experience Tatum has, even early on.
I get it, this is a prospects website for MLB. You watch your player grow up and develop in MLB, and that's how it works in MLB. That's not how the NBA works. Go find a new sport to watch if you think that's how it works. The NBA is a grown man's league. You're either ready or you're not ready to win, right out of the gate.
It's okay to question it, because you don't have to trade Tatum yet, but it could be the best situation for both sides down the road. Hey if he can't carry a team, maybe he is meant to be part of a different system to help him win. The Celtics will give him rope, but I hope not too much rope to fail.
Edit-
Tatum was brought here to be the best player of this franchise. The guy who is supposed to be that catalyst. There's no finagling around that. He's got to do that here or the future is cloudy at best in Boston, for sure. He's got to figure it out.
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Post by jmei on Jun 20, 2022 7:03:00 GMT -5
You know, I used to wonder why First Take and WEEI seem to be so popular, and then I realized that most fans see sports more through the lens of melodrama than through the lens of dispassionate scouting/statistical analysis. But it gives me comfort that the Celtics organization will be more concerned about Tatum’s handle, court vision and ability to finish through contact than they will about his “killer instinct” (or lack thereof).
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Post by dcb26 on Jun 20, 2022 8:49:06 GMT -5
This topic has become a microcosm of American society: two sides whose arguments each contain some elements of truth, and each side too concerned with proving the other wrong to get off their high horse and acknowledge it
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Post by nuttyredsox on Jun 20, 2022 10:59:50 GMT -5
Common sense has gone down the tubes
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,928
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Post by cdj on Jun 20, 2022 13:45:43 GMT -5
Yeah UMass response is exactly why I started the conversation, does Tatum have that killer instinct to win? It's a really fair question. It's actually okay to question that too at this point, with how much playoff experience Tatum has, even early on. I get it, this is a prospects website for MLB. You watch your player grow up and develop in MLB, and that's how it works in MLB. That's not how the NBA works. Go find a new sport to watch if you think that's how it works. The NBA is a grown man's league. You're either ready or you're not ready to win, right out of the gate. It's okay to question it, because you don't have to trade Tatum yet, but it could be the best situation for both sides down the road. Hey if he can't carry a team, maybe he is meant to be part of a different system to help him win. The Celtics will give him rope, but I hope not too much rope to fail. Edit- Tatum was brought here to be the best player of this franchise. The guy who is supposed to be that catalyst. There's no finagling around that. He's got to do that here or the future is cloudy at best in Boston, for sure. He's got to figure it out. You don’t even realize you’re contradicting yourself when you say “it’s a grown man’s league” and follow it up by saying “you’re either ready or you’re not ready to win right out of the gate” (which is a silly statement for the record) It’s entirely laughable, especially in the context that you’re telling other people they don’t know what they’re watching and that they should watch a new sport You can have a bad series against a great team with elite defense without sports radio BS being the issue. Especially when we saw him drop 46 in a do or die elimination situation on the road against the defending champions who have the best player in the league. This “Killer instinct” talk is Skip Bayless, “what have you done for me lately” garbage |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 20, 2022 15:04:54 GMT -5
If only Timelord were healthy, everyone would be talking about how amazing it was that Tatum brought home #18 at age 24.
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Post by trajanacc on Jun 20, 2022 16:51:33 GMT -5
I get it, this is a prospects website for MLB. You watch your player grow up and develop in MLB, and that's how it works in MLB. That's not how the NBA works. Go find a new sport to watch if you think that's how it works. The NBA is a grown man's league. You're either ready or you're not ready to win, right out of the gate. The level of conceit required to tell people they are watching a sport incorrectly, while making statements as vacuous as those contained in the last two sentences, is mind-blowing to me. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2022 22:06:33 GMT -5
You know, I used to wonder why First Take and WEEI seem to be so popular, and then I realized that most fans see sports more through the lens of melodrama than through the lens of dispassionate scouting/statistical analysis. But it gives me comfort that the Celtics organization will be more concerned about Tatum’s handle, court vision and ability to finish through contact than they will about his “killer instinct” (or lack thereof). Tatum had the biggest drop in WS/48 on the team during the playoffs besides White who went from starter to bench player. He was 25th in the whole league during regular season, 43rd during playoffs among a much smaller field of players. This isn’t just talk show crap because he missed a shot or two, it's backed up by advanced stats. Horford got better, Robert Williams was almost the same, if Tatum just has a small dip like Brown or basically anyone besides White we win a championship. If I had win share data just for the finals it would be much more pronounced. I'm not going crazy talking about trading Tatum, yet this is a legit thing to talk about. It's also not the first time we've seen this happen, two coaches and two different offenses. A lot of the same issues from 2020 versus Raptors and Heat, were there against Bucks, Heat and Warriors two years later. Heck all the way back to 2018 you got part of the samethings. TOs, massive offensive lulls and forced bad iso offense as they went away from ball movement for long stretches. Now I do agree with another poster there's two sides and both are legit, overall it's still a fairly young team. The sky isn't falling down and no one should be talking about trading Tatum. Yet he deserves criticism, he earned it, it's not just crazy Boston media crap. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 20, 2022 22:08:55 GMT -5
If only Timelord were healthy, everyone would be talking about how amazing it was that Tatum brought home #18 at age 24. If Robert Williams was that much better that we win a championship, we'd be talking about how amazing it was that Robert Williams got us #18 at age 24. |
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Post by jmei on Jun 21, 2022 6:17:32 GMT -5
You know, I used to wonder why First Take and WEEI seem to be so popular, and then I realized that most fans see sports more through the lens of melodrama than through the lens of dispassionate scouting/statistical analysis. But it gives me comfort that the Celtics organization will be more concerned about Tatum’s handle, court vision and ability to finish through contact than they will about his “killer instinct” (or lack thereof). Tatum had the biggest drop in WS/48 on the team during the playoffs besides White who went from starter to bench player. He was 25th in the whole league during regular season, 43rd during playoffs among a much smaller field of players. This isn’t just talk show crap because he missed a shot or two, it's backed up by advanced stats. Horford got better, Robert Williams was almost the same, if Tatum just has a small dip like Brown or basically anyone besides White we win a championship. If I had win share data just for the finals it would be much more pronounced. I'm not going crazy talking about trading Tatum, yet this is a legit thing to talk about. It's also not the first time we've seen this happen, two coaches and two different offenses. A lot of the same issues from 2020 versus Raptors and Heat, were there against Bucks, Heat and Warriors two years later. Heck all the way back to 2018 you got part of the samethings. TOs, massive offensive lulls and forced bad iso offense as they went away from ball movement for long stretches. Now I do agree with another poster there's two sides and both are legit, overall it's still a fairly young team. The sky isn't falling down and no one should be talking about trading Tatum. Yet he deserves criticism, he earned it, it's not just crazy Boston media crap. I’m not saying that Tatum doesn’t deserve criticism. I’m saying that he should be criticized for the holes in his game (which are plentiful), not armchair psychoanalysis about his mentality or instinct or whatever. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 21, 2022 6:54:00 GMT -5
I'm still mourning, but I love this team and I can't wait for next season.
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Post by nuttyredsox on Jun 21, 2022 7:47:09 GMT -5
We can't forget that we play against a great and experienced team, where one of their players changed the game and is probably in the top 3 of the best PG, ever, CURRY.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 21, 2022 10:25:23 GMT -5
Tatum had the biggest drop in WS/48 on the team during the playoffs besides White who went from starter to bench player. He was 25th in the whole league during regular season, 43rd during playoffs among a much smaller field of players. This isn’t just talk show crap because he missed a shot or two, it's backed up by advanced stats. Horford got better, Robert Williams was almost the same, if Tatum just has a small dip like Brown or basically anyone besides White we win a championship. If I had win share data just for the finals it would be much more pronounced. I'm not going crazy talking about trading Tatum, yet this is a legit thing to talk about. It's also not the first time we've seen this happen, two coaches and two different offenses. A lot of the same issues from 2020 versus Raptors and Heat, were there against Bucks, Heat and Warriors two years later. Heck all the way back to 2018 you got part of the samethings. TOs, massive offensive lulls and forced bad iso offense as they went away from ball movement for long stretches. Now I do agree with another poster there's two sides and both are legit, overall it's still a fairly young team. The sky isn't falling down and no one should be talking about trading Tatum. Yet he deserves criticism, he earned it, it's not just crazy Boston media crap. I’m not saying that Tatum doesn’t deserve criticism. I’m saying that he should be criticized for the holes in his game (which are plentiful), not armchair psychoanalysis about his mentality or instinct or whatever. I don't agree, that makes it sound like he's just not good enough and it's not his fault. I truly believe Tatum has the skills to have been much better right now. He was first team all NBA and shot 30% during the finals. He 100% deserves what he's getting. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 21, 2022 20:10:36 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think they trade Tatum for another year or two at earliest (worst case scenario), hopefully he grows up a lot and if he doesn't, he'll probably be some other team's number two guy somewhere down the road. He's supposed to be the number one guy here.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,055
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Post by mobaz on Jun 22, 2022 8:49:57 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think they trade Tatum for another year or two at earliest (worst case scenario), hopefully he grows up a lot and if he doesn't, he'll probably be some other team's number two guy somewhere down the road. He's supposed to be the number one guy here. I wouldn't give up on Tatum, period. He just got All NBA 1st team 2 mos ago. As-is this team can be a perennial ECF contender, which 25 other teams would die for. MAYBE he's Pierce and won't mentally mature his game until he hits 30 to be The Guy at the end of a Finals team, but I'd bet on it happening earlier or the opportunity to get other great fits comes up between now and then. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 22, 2022 8:54:21 GMT -5
We just made it to the Finals with a roster built around Tatum and Brown. Please let's not talk about trading either, it makes no sense.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 22, 2022 11:55:47 GMT -5
Paul Pierce at age 23 had Antoine Walker, Bryant Stith and Kenny Anderson as his top four players. Stith averaged 9.7 points and Anderson 7.5 points. 2004 made ECF, Rodney Rogers was your third best players at just barely over ten points a game, then Kenny Anderson.
I remember that whole 2003 team besides Stith for some reason, it doesn't Register at all. That's shocking, I watched every minute of every game back then.
So was it Pierce didn't develop till age 30 or it took us that long to surround him with talent? Antoine Walker was one of the most over rated players in Celtics history. One of the most inefficient scorers you'll ever see and a negative defender. Brown, Robert Williams and Horford are all clearly better. Smart would likely be that inefficient scorer, yet at least elite on D. Our current bench players are better than the starters Pierce had to play with. If he only had Theis, White, Grant and Pritchard what could he have done? Lol, I have to laugh because it brings back the crap I watched since a kid. Early 90s till 2008 the Celtics were basically a joke. That ECF run cost us Joe Johnson so we could get Rodgers and Delk, with no legit chance of winning a championship.
If you blame Pierce I don't know what to say. He certainly had bad moments, he also was trying to carry a crap team all by himself.
Then we got Danny, one of the first thing he does is trade Walker because there no way you win with him as your 2nd best player. The rest is History, we've been one of the better teams ever since. Time to retire Ainges jersey to the rafters, his playing career and executive career deserve it.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 22, 2022 12:44:15 GMT -5
Paul Pierce at age 23 had Antoine Walker, Bryant Stith and Kenny Anderson as his top four players. Stith averaged 9.7 points and Anderson 7.5 points. 2004 made ECF, Rodney Rogers was your third best players at just barely over ten points a game, then Kenny Anderson. I remember that whole 2003 team besides Stith for some reason, it doesn't Register at all. That's shocking, I watched every minute of every game back then. So was it Pierce didn't develop till age 30 or it took us that long to surround him with talent? Antoine Walker was one of the most over rated players in Celtics history. One of the most inefficient scorers you'll ever see and a negative defender. Brown, Robert Williams and Horford are all clearly better. Smart would likely be that inefficient scorer, yet at least elite on D. Our current bench players are better than the starters Pierce had to play with. If he only had Theis, White, Grant and Pritchard what could he have done? Lol, I have to laugh because it brings back the crap I watched since a kid. Early 90s till 2008 the Celtics were basically a joke. That ECF run cost us Joe Johnson so we could get Rodgers and Delk, with no legit chance of winning a championship. If you blame Pierce I don't know what to say. He certainly had bad moments, he also was trying to carry a crap team all by himself. Then we got Danny, one of the first thing he does is trade Walker because there no way you win with him as your 2nd best player. The rest is History, we've been one of the better teams ever since. Time to retire Ainges jersey to the rafters, his playing career and executive career deserve it. I know you’re very passionate. But sometimes your tangents are very..tangential? In terms of Eastern Conference finalists, that early 2000’s Celtics team was really bad. But the Eastern Conference at that time was f***ing putrid. You had Allen Iverson making finals with Eric Snow and Aaron Mckie as his best offensive players. We’re talking about that period being as bad as the Eastern Conference has ever been (please don’t try to argue this point, I will not respond). The Celtics just beat two of the top 15 players of all time in consecutive playoff series, and was 5 minutes away in game four from beating a third. I agree with you that Tatum currently lacks a mental toughness that Paul Pierce always had. But Paul was never as good at basketball as Jayson Tatum is. |
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