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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jun 17, 2022 18:33:07 GMT -5
Umass you touched upon an interesting idea regarding point guard and possible improvements going forward. How would you improve the team for next year? Who are the more tradeable pieces? I'm thinking Smart would be one of our more tradeable pieces. Theis is a contract they might want to move
I know a player they were interested in the past (who I heard might be available) is Lonzo Ball whose defense while not as good as Smart is still good, he's a better passer and shooter having turned himself into a very good 3-point shooter too better in fact than Curry this past season both in volume and percentage. He makes slightly more than Marcus so the contracts swap would work well. I think he'd be a fantastic fit with our team, he'd manage the ball better (see fewer turnovers), create easier shots with his fantastic passing and creativity and help spread the floor with his 3-point shooting. He'd compliment the Jays and make them better players by creating easier shots for them. As much as I like Marcus I think you'd be trading him while his value is high perhaps even inflated after winning DPOy. He's also 2 inches taller than Smart at 6-6. His contract has 3 more years at $20m/YR and he'd turn 27 at the end of the 2025 season when he current contract expires.
Another name I've heard is Malcom Brogdon and seeing he also is a guard, I'd have imagined it also would be centered around Smart.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 18, 2022 11:53:00 GMT -5
Umass you touched upon an interesting idea regarding point guard and possible improvements going forward. How would you improve the team for next year? Who are the more tradeable pieces? I'm thinking Smart would be one of our more tradeable pieces. Theis is a contract they might want to move I know a player they were interested in the past (who I heard might be available) is Lonzo Ball whose defense while not as good as Smart is still good, he's a better passer and shooter having turned himself into a very good 3-point shooter too better in fact than Curry this past season both in volume and percentage. He makes slightly more than Marcus so the contracts swap would work well. I think he'd be a fantastic fit with our team, he'd manage the ball better (see fewer turnovers), create easier shots with his fantastic passing and creativity and help spread the floor with his 3-point shooting. He'd compliment the Jays and make them better players by creating easier shots for them. As much as I like Marcus I think you'd be trading him while his value is high perhaps even inflated after winning DPOy. He's also 2 inches taller than Smart at 6-6. His contract has 3 more years at $20m/YR and he'd turn 27 at the end of the 2025 season when he current contract expires. Another name I've heard is Malcom Brogdon and seeing he also is a guard, I'd have imagined it also would be centered around Smart. I love Ball and would make that trade, yet don't see why Bulls would unless they are worried about his knee. Frankly no way Stevens trades Smart right now. Yet that's the issue as you really don't have the shooting and floor spacing needed to let Brown and Tatum create without teams stuffingthe paint. Robert can't shoot, Horford, Smart, White and Grant are all up and down as shooters. The best shooter in Pritchard doesn't play much because he's not an elite defender. My bet is they use the trade exception and mid level exception on adding shooting, dribbling and shot creation. Yet finding that in good defensive players that are switchable is not easy. We'll start hearing rumors soon on players that teams want to dump to create more space. Wood went for a late first, he would have been great. What do I really want? Beal to demand trade to Celtics sending out White, Theis, Grant and a ton of picks. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2022 13:24:23 GMT -5
Shaq played with another rookie player with a killer instinct/Hof/another young great player in Dwayne Wade. If your argument is that every player who doesn’t win a ring by age 24 doesn’t have a killer instinct then it’s- again- very silly. That’s a long list of winners without a killer instinct Like the two best players of all-time in MJ and Lebron? |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 14:51:26 GMT -5
If your argument is that every player who doesn’t win a ring by age 24 doesn’t have a killer instinct then it’s- again- very silly. That’s a long list of winners without a killer instinct Like the two best players of all-time in MJ and Lebron? I know you could be just trolling, but again I told everyone this was going to be a national story. Here it was. Hope Tatum is listening. The only reason why Michael Jordan lost young was because he ran into the Celtics dynasty with no talent around him. He was putting 60 point games versus the Celtics dynasty when he was young. Same went for LeBron. He kept losing to Pierce, Allen, and Garnett in the playoffs with no talent around him. LeBron went to the Heat, rest was history. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 15:11:43 GMT -5
Also, the Celtics just need more talent around Tatum. Maybe acquire a real point guard, trade Smart.
Not sure, but this team could use another another impact player. Get Tatum some more talent around him.
Al Horford, Grant Williams, Smart, White all role players. Need another player in there who's talented enough to get starting minutes. Build this team to set Tatum up for success and not make him have to do everything to where they'll lose if he doesn't show up.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2022 18:09:40 GMT -5
Definitely the biggest challenge Tatum is facing is to be able to handle criticism from idiots who yell on tv.
The narrative on Jordan until he was much older than Tatum was that he was a huge ball hog who couldn't raise his teammates' play and was never going to win. Just another version of Dominique Wilkins.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2022 18:09:40 GMT -5
You do realize Tatum just ran into a dynasty that is an elite defensive team right? At age 24? Willing to make that excuse for others but not for Tatum because it doesn’t further your agenda
Also Nobody gives a flying shit what Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless has to say.
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 18:46:53 GMT -5
You do realize Tatum just ran into a dynasty that is an elite defensive team right? At age 24? Willing to make that excuse for others but not for Tatum because it doesn’t further your agenda Also Nobody gives a flying shit what Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless has to say. The Warriors dynasty ended when Durant left. It's not my agenda. It's a national perspective. The good news is yes again, he's 24. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 18:48:16 GMT -5
Definitely the biggest challenge Tatum is facing is to be able to handle criticism from idiots who yell on tv. The narrative on Jordan until he was much older than Tatum was that he was a huge ball hog who couldn't raise his teammates' play and was never going to win. Just another version of Dominique Wilkins. What about LeBron (who you named), who kept losing to Paul Pierce and the Celtics until he joined the Heat? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2022 18:48:18 GMT -5
You do realize Tatum just ran into a dynasty that is an elite defensive team right? At age 24? Willing to make that excuse for others but not for Tatum because it doesn’t further your agenda Also Nobody gives a flying shit what Stephen A Smith or Skip Bayless has to say. The Warriors dynasty ended when Durant left. It's not my agenda. It's a national perspective. The good news is yes again, he's 24. Well considering they were an establish dynamo before Durant and just won a title after Durant (once their key guys got healthy) I don’t think that’s accurate. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 18:49:07 GMT -5
The Warriors dynasty ended when Durant left. It's not my agenda. It's a national perspective. The good news is yes again, he's 24. Well considering they were an establish dynamo before Durant and just won a title after Durant (once their key guys got healthy) I don’t think that’s accurate. They one once without Durant (before). |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2022 18:51:32 GMT -5
Well considering they were an establish dynamo before Durant and just won a title after Durant (once their key guys got healthy) I don’t think that’s accurate. They one once without Durant (before). Yeah and they were literally the best team of all time lol They won a ring then went 73-9. Then won some more rings. And now They just won a ring now with pretty much the same core guys they started with, after cutting through the league like butter. This implication that their dynasty ended with Durant when they just won the title without him is so silly I’m not gonna waste my time on it anymore. I can’t dignify it, we have a finite time on this planet |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 18:56:19 GMT -5
They one once without Durant (before). Yeah and they were literally the best team of all time lol They won a ring then went 73-9. Then won some more rings. And now They just won a ring now with pretty much the same core guys they started with, after cutting through the league like butter. I doubt they win again, but we are talking revisionist history. If Durant chose the Celtics, the Celtics would have had their own dynasty. The problem is you're calling them a dynasty, they were with Durant in his prime. God knows what happens if he doesn't choose to go there. Come back to me when they win 3 without Durant. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2022 19:00:50 GMT -5
Durant got swept out of round 1 this year but he’s apparently the reason the team that won the title both before and after him is any good.
Galaxy brain stuff. I won’t be “coming back to you” or responding to you at any point in the near future. You’re disingenuous.
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 19:03:41 GMT -5
Durant got swept out of round 1 this year but he’s apparently the reason the team that won the title both before and after him is any good. Galaxy brain stuff. I won’t be coming back to you or responding to you at any point in the near future. You’re disingenuous. Durant blew his Achilles and he hasn't been playing at the same top 10 player of all time level this past year... I don't know why you're getting mad at anything I'm saying. Take the high road and leave, but doesn't make me wrong. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2022 19:08:07 GMT -5
Definitely the biggest challenge Tatum is facing is to be able to handle criticism from idiots who yell on tv. The narrative on Jordan until he was much older than Tatum was that he was a huge ball hog who couldn't raise his teammates' play and was never going to win. Just another version of Dominique Wilkins. What about LeBron (who you named), who kept losing to Paul Pierce and the Celtics until he joined the Heat? I mentioned him before as another guy that didn't win until he was much older than Tatum. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 19:10:38 GMT -5
What about LeBron (who you named), who kept losing to Paul Pierce and the Celtics until he joined the Heat? I mentioned him before as another guy that didn't win until he was much older than Tatum. The best player that LeBron played with before he joined the Heat, was a out of his prime Shaq and Mo Williams. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2022 19:12:34 GMT -5
I mentioned him before as another guy that didn't win until he was much older than Tatum. The best player that LeBron played with before he joined the Heat, was a out of his prime Shaq and Mo Williams. So what? This crap about 24 year olds not winning championships means they will never win championships is a bunch of god damn stupid discussion. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 19:16:04 GMT -5
The best player that LeBron played with before he joined the Heat, was a out of his prime Shaq and Mo Williams. So what? This crap about 24 year olds not winning championships means they will never win championships is a bunch of god damn stupid discussion. So what? It's everything. Tatum had Brown and a bunch of good role players. Ten times as much as those Cleveland teams. The discussion was based on why they lost. How they lost. Tatum was a bigger part about how they lost than LeBron at the time. It's all about perspective. No one can handle the criticism here. Can clearly tell. Hopefully Tatum is better than that. Tatum needs to grow up as a ballplayer in ways. The Celtics also need more talent around him. Both are true. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2022 19:19:23 GMT -5
Yeah, Tatum needs to grow like Lebron and Michael. It's not surprising at all that a 24 year old doesn't know everything already. I'm so f'ing sick of listening to this nonsense. No more talk between us.
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 18, 2022 19:20:51 GMT -5
No Michael and LeBron just needed better ballplayers around them at age 24 or they would have won. That's the established difference of opinion I was trying to make.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 18, 2022 23:47:31 GMT -5
No Michael and LeBron just needed better ballplayers around them at age 24 or they would have won. That's the established difference of opinion I was trying to make. Did you conveniently forget LeBron’s first season with the Heat? When he played with 2 future hall of famers, steamrolled the Celtics 4-1, then got punked in the finals by Dirk, who had a supporting cast of…Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, DeShawn Stevenson and an over the hill Jason Kidd? Had a 2-1 lead, then lost the next three (sound familiar?), including scoring a whopping 8 points in the game 4 loss. BTW, LeBron was 26 and in his 8th season during this time. I swear the mental gymnastics you’re going through are astounding. LeBron was WAY more scrutinized until he stepped into the Garden in Game 6 of the 2012 ECF and completely asserted his dominance. Prior to that there was always the question of if had the “killer instinct” that you keep harping on. Obviously Tatum was pretty bad this series, but to act like he’s the first young player to struggle in these circumstances is absurd. |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 18, 2022 23:51:57 GMT -5
How? The Celtics were favored in every series. Some nice revisionist history here www.audacy.com/weei/sports/celtics/what-the-experts-are-predicting-for-nba-finalsThe Warriors had 3 future hall of famers, a former #1 pick in Wiggins, who just played the best ball of his career, a former #3 pick in Porter, Poole, who would be the starting SG on 2/3 of NBA teams, Looney, one of the best rebounders in the postseason, and GP2, a lockdown defender. Not to mention a coach who is building his own HOF legacy, and assistants who all have head coaching experience. The only people who thought the Celtics were favored in the finals were complete homers or idiots. |
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Post by redsox43 on Jun 19, 2022 0:05:14 GMT -5
No Michael and LeBron just needed better ballplayers around them at age 24 or they would have won. That's the established difference of opinion I was trying to make. Did you conveniently forget LeBron’s first season with the Heat? When he played with 2 future hall of famers, steamrolled the Celtics 4-1, then got punked in the finals by Dirk, who had a supporting cast of…Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, DeShawn Stevenson and an over the hill Jason Kidd? Had a 2-1 lead, then lost the next three (sound familiar?), including scoring a whopping 8 points in the game 4 loss. BTW, LeBron was 26 and in his 8th season during this time. I swear the mental gymnastics you’re going through are astounding. LeBron was WAY more scrutinized until he stepped into the Garden in Game 6 of the 2012 ECF and completely asserted his dominance. Prior to that there was always the question of if had the “killer instinct” that you keep harping on. Obviously Tatum was pretty bad this series, but to act like he’s the first young player to struggle in these circumstances is absurd. That season against the Maverick's in the playoffs was LeBron's only blemish, with talent and a failure. Indeed. He deserved all the blame for that. He lost to the best scoring power forward in the history of the league. He got that blame, learned from it and formed his dynasty. What will Tatum do after this year? What will the Celtics do to help him? I'm not doing mental gymnastics. I'm just pointing out that the age isn't a excuse. Tatum had the chance to win it with enough talent, but blew it. Everyone wants to put him in the echelon of LeBron or Kobe. Making comparisons to him (Kobe) since he was a rookie. Well, he's got to prove it first and rebound from this. LeBron didn't need a killer instinct. He's arguably the dominant player in NBA History with how many great things he can do on a court. I would argue that LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct, either. That's why he's lost 4 times in the finals and he could have lost 5 or 6 times if it wasn't for Ray Allen or Kyrie Irving. He never took the game winning shot. He always passed the ball to give it to someone else. His biggest downfall (in clutch time), and his best attribute as a player. Tatum will never be LeBron, so he better develop a killer instinct imo. |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 19, 2022 0:23:00 GMT -5
Did you conveniently forget LeBron’s first season with the Heat? When he played with 2 future hall of famers, steamrolled the Celtics 4-1, then got punked in the finals by Dirk, who had a supporting cast of…Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, DeShawn Stevenson and an over the hill Jason Kidd? Had a 2-1 lead, then lost the next three (sound familiar?), including scoring a whopping 8 points in the game 4 loss. BTW, LeBron was 26 and in his 8th season during this time. I swear the mental gymnastics you’re going through are astounding. LeBron was WAY more scrutinized until he stepped into the Garden in Game 6 of the 2012 ECF and completely asserted his dominance. Prior to that there was always the question of if had the “killer instinct” that you keep harping on. Obviously Tatum was pretty bad this series, but to act like he’s the first young player to struggle in these circumstances is absurd. That season against the Maverick's in the playoffs was LeBron's only blemish, with talent and a failure. Indeed. He deserved all the blame for that. He got that blame, learned from it and formed his dynasty. What will Tatum do after this year? What will the Celtics do to help him? I'm not doing mental gymnastics. I'm just pointing out that the age isn't a excuse. Tatum had the chance to win it with enough talent, but blew it. Everyone wants to put him in the echelon of LeBron or Kobe. Making comparisons to him since he was a rookie. Well, he's got to prove it first and rebound from this. LeBron didn't need a killer instinct. He's arguably the dominant player in NBA History with how many great things he can do on a court. I would argue that LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct, either. That's why he's lost 4 times in the finals and he could have lost 5 or 6 times if it wasn't for Ray Allen or Kyrie Irving. He never took the game winning shot. He always passed the ball to give it to someone else. His biggest downfall (in clutch time), and his best attribute as a player. I do agree with you to some extent regarding LeBron’s lack of killer instinct, but it’s hard for me to say that about a guy that has won 4 rings. Some of those finals losses were just to straight up better teams (the Durant era Warriors in particular), but you’re not wrong regarding his lack of signature moments. That game 6 when he completely destroyed the Celtics in Boston while on the brink of elimination forever changed my opinion of him though, was a total Jordan moment. Prior to that I thought he was soft as hell and would never get it done. I, like every other Celtics fan, hope Tatum does learn from this, tunes out the outside noise and keeps improving his game. Despite his shortcomings he has made big leaps each season he’s been in the league, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see him be an MVP candidate next year, but we shall see. Two things that I think the Celtics can do to help him are getting a PG that’s a better facilitator, and improving the bench BIG TIME. I think Grant and Pritchard will improve, but they were complete duds after the Milwaukee series. Getting an established scorer to take some pressure off the J’s would go a long way |
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