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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
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Post by philarhody on Nov 26, 2021 21:33:09 GMT -5
Because the problem with this team isn’t a lack of outside shooting. The problem with this team is the terrible shot selection that results from a complete lack of accountability. I don't disagree about the accountability part, yet I will certainly push back on having enough shooting to open things up inside for Tatum and Brown. Ime choice is Robert Williams, Horford and Smart, that's not good shooting or ball movement. He then loves Grant Williams, Schroder and Richardson. He's gone games playing basically just those eight. The best shooter out of those guys not named Tatum or Brown is Grant Williams. That's why this team is 25th in 3 point shooting. If you're another team, what are you going to do if Grant Williams is the best shooter spacing Tatum and Brown? Clog the paint, double team them and dare those guys to beat you? Brosef, This is the problem. Tatum and Brown are the outside shooters. They are not primaries and initiators, yet are being treated as such. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 26, 2021 23:02:32 GMT -5
Well at least they showed some heart
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 26, 2021 23:03:54 GMT -5
So, yeah, this team is pathetic
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 26, 2021 23:44:45 GMT -5
Big trouble in paradise, indeed.
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Post by texs31 on Nov 27, 2021 0:04:58 GMT -5
This game helped my "Cs should get DJounte Murray" narrative.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 27, 2021 0:51:39 GMT -5
This game helped my "Cs should get DJounte Murray" narrative. Guy completely took over |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 27, 2021 1:47:29 GMT -5
Yes. I still think that blaming losses on something "mental" instead of skill and/or personnel issues does not make sense. But if I said I understood this team I would be lying. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 27, 2021 1:54:56 GMT -5
Despite yet another awful 4th, I still think this team is much better than .500.
But pretty much we go as far as Tatum takes us, i thought he would take an MVP leap this year and he's been very mediocre for his standards and really inconsistent, if that continues we're a playin team at best.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 27, 2021 2:22:54 GMT -5
I don't disagree about the accountability part, yet I will certainly push back on having enough shooting to open things up inside for Tatum and Brown. Ime choice is Robert Williams, Horford and Smart, that's not good shooting or ball movement. He then loves Grant Williams, Schroder and Richardson. He's gone games playing basically just those eight. The best shooter out of those guys not named Tatum or Brown is Grant Williams. That's why this team is 25th in 3 point shooting. If you're another team, what are you going to do if Grant Williams is the best shooter spacing Tatum and Brown? Clog the paint, double team them and dare those guys to beat you? Brosef, This is the problem. Tatum and Brown are the outside shooters. They are not primaries and initiators, yet are being treated as such. I see Tatum and Brown as very good two way scorers. Good enough to be the top guys on a championship team, yet they require the right system, right players around them and right roles. They aren't initiators and need a strong lead guard to run the show. It's why I was big on Lonzo Ball and Graham. Smart isn't that guy and for some reason Ime thinks he is. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 27, 2021 4:11:37 GMT -5
Brosef, This is the problem. Tatum and Brown are the outside shooters. They are not primaries and initiators, yet are being treated as such. I see Tatum and Brown as very good two way scorers. Good enough to be the top guys on a championship team, yet they require the right system, right players around them and right roles. They aren't initiators and need a strong lead guard to run the show. It's why I was big on Lonzo Ball and Graham. Smart isn't that guy and for some reason Ime thinks he is. Smart *is* that guy in my opinion, actually he's a better half court playmaker than Lonzo, or at the least equivalent. Look at their assist rates. Where Lonzo is better is 3 point shooting and what we are missing is 3 point shooting outside Tatum and Brown IMO. Smart, Schroeder, Richardson, Horford, Timelord are all nonexistent to bad 3 point shooters. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 27, 2021 9:40:44 GMT -5
We can all whistle last the graveyard if we want to and act like this team is better than their record. But the reality is that we have multiple seasons of the same patterns and bad habits. It’s actually a pretty large sample size at this point.
Not sure if it’s a bad mix of skill sets or the personalities don’t mesh, but this core group is just not getting it done. Something needs to change.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 27, 2021 13:18:27 GMT -5
I see Tatum and Brown as very good two way scorers. Good enough to be the top guys on a championship team, yet they require the right system, right players around them and right roles. They aren't initiators and need a strong lead guard to run the show. It's why I was big on Lonzo Ball and Graham. Smart isn't that guy and for some reason Ime thinks he is. Smart *is* that guy in my opinion, actually he's a better half court playmaker than Lonzo, or at the least equivalent. Look at their assist rates. Where Lonzo is better is 3 point shooting and what we are missing is 3 point shooting outside Tatum and Brown IMO. Smart, Schroeder, Richardson, Horford, Timelord are all nonexistent to bad 3 point shooters. So you enjoy this offense? This offense is exactly who Smart is. A slow paced half court team that can't shot or create and puts too much pressure on our young scorers. Smart can when he feels like it make some nice passes, he can't run the offense I want. He can't all game long get into the paint and collapse the D and he can't get the team out in transition. He doesn't really control anything. Watch the little things Schroder does when Ime actually let's him play PG. Yet for some reason Ime has Smart play PG when he plays with Schroder and makes Schroder a SG. Even though the shooting would be horrible, I'd actually be intrigued by that pairing if Schroder was the PG. I said it before the season and absolutely nothing I've seen so far has changed my mind, Schroder is our best PG for how I want to play and Pritchard is our 2nd best option. Smart is our third best PG and is really just a SG that can make some good passes. The Bulls aren't using Lonzo Ball as a PG, it's a horrible fit for his skill set. His assists are actually impressive given his role. What are the two best offenses that Tatum and Brown have been involved with? 2018 and 2020, Rozier and Walker being able to be actual PG that could collapse the D, which opened up everything for everyone else. When Walker knee stopped allowing him to get to the basket with ease, everything started to fall apart. A lot of this isn’t directed at you, I'm just venting because Ime has spent the whole season doing the complete opposite of what best for this team. You work on the offense, then fine tune the D as the year goes by because the regular season is much more about offense and the playoffs are about D more. I just miss Brad Stevens, it's the old saying you don't really know what you had till it's gone. Also right now Marcus Smart is my #1 trade candidate. Brad has to save Ime from himself. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 27, 2021 14:24:52 GMT -5
@umass no worries at all, no offense taken and I completely understand the frustrations with the team. As someone who had and still has a lot of faith in this team I've been pretty disappointed.
And no I definitely do not enjoy watching the offense in its current form haha, certainly not.
I have a lot of faith in Ime figuring it out, he's made some headscratching decisions for sure but I'll give him some time to break in. He's also not making Tatum play so inconsistently.
Hopefully we improve; I agree with you collapsing the D. I do think *ideally* Tatum would be ballhandler who collapses the D but we just don't have the shooters for that. So I agree it could be Schroeder in that role w Smart as connector. It's at least worth trying something different.
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Post by jmei on Nov 28, 2021 12:20:15 GMT -5
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 28, 2021 13:19:39 GMT -5
I don’t disagree entirely - I said we needed to give Udoka until year two before drawing any conclusions about him as a coach. I stand by that statement, even though lots of people on here said that was ridiculous. But the Celtics don’t have the luxury of being patient. This core may be young on paper, but they aren’t inexperienced and they don’t have a large window anymore to figure things out. I really think it’ll be concerning if they haven’t taken big steps forward by next season. I’m not advocating that the Celtics make panic moves, but there needs to be a sense of urgency. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 28, 2021 14:36:42 GMT -5
Celtics leaders in 3 point attempts, Tatum, Smart, Schroder,Brown, Horford, Williams, Richardson, Nesmith, Langford and finally 10th is Pritchard.
Smart is a career 31.8% three point shooter, Schroder is 33.6%.
Getting Pritchard a wide open look is great offense, getting Smart and Schroder open three point shots isn't.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Nov 28, 2021 22:47:20 GMT -5
Whelp...they won. Back over .500 again. Tatum's shooting woes...ugh
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 29, 2021 1:40:13 GMT -5
Grant Williams is the only 50/40/90 guy in the league lol
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 29, 2021 2:02:26 GMT -5
Whelp...they won. Back over .500 again. Tatum's shooting woes...ugh Yes it's so wild. Credit to Tatum for some great passes last night in the 4th though instead of forcing it. If a couple more Tatum shots go in last night it's a blowout. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 29, 2021 10:36:34 GMT -5
Grant Williams is the only 50/40/90 guy in the league lol About this time last year Payton Pritchard had that same elite line, now even with Schroder out he barely plays. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 29, 2021 14:11:33 GMT -5
About this time last year Payton Pritchard had that same elite line, now even with Schroder out he barely plays. Maybe he's injured? I don't think Ime is being hard on him at all, he looks like ass out there. He's just not an NBA player right now. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 29, 2021 14:58:02 GMT -5
Kemba is out of the Knicks rotation as of now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 29, 2021 23:54:48 GMT -5
About this time last year Payton Pritchard had that same elite line, now even with Schroder out he barely plays. Maybe he's injured? I don't think Ime is being hard on him at all, he looks like ass out there. He's just not an NBA player right now. He's a second year player that was give 5 games of regular playing time. Heck take out the first game and he was shooting 35.7% from deep his next four. I really do think Ime is his biggest issue. Give him some regular playing time and let him create. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 30, 2021 1:13:54 GMT -5
Maybe he's injured? I don't think Ime is being hard on him at all, he looks like ass out there. He's just not an NBA player right now. He's a second year player that was give 5 games of regular playing time. Heck take out the first game and he was shooting 35.7% from deep his next four. I really do think Ime is his biggest issue. Give him some regular playing time and let him create. Meh I agree with Don, he looks terrible out there and gets cooked regularly on defense. Honestly I think they should send him and Nesmith to Maine for regular reps once Jaylen is 100%. Bring up Hauser and Thomas for bench mins here and there. |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Nov 30, 2021 4:44:32 GMT -5
Kemba is out of the Knicks rotation as of now. Absolutely crazy how far he fell off a cliff. I would have absolutely *loved* Sengun for this team but can't argue that was an absolute heist getting Horford for Kemba and a pick. Sad to see because I really like Kemba as a person. |
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