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Boston Celtics 2021-2022 Season
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 3, 2021 18:33:51 GMT -5
As to our biggest issue, future PG that fits with Tatum and Brown. I'm trying to get RJ Hampton. It's a long-term move, yet he's buried behind Anthony and Suggs, with Fultz return coming at some point. Give Ime a young guy to mold that sure seems to fit his style. I have a better solution. What if we try and get TERRY back? The Hornets need some defense, what about Richardson + Nesmith and something else for Terry? Is that even reasonable? I don't see it, like they'd want Horford or Williams. Maybe a three team trade that gets them a big, that's what they really need. Yet they also don't have anyone ready to replace Rozier after letting Graham and Monk leave. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 3, 2021 19:33:40 GMT -5
I don't see it, like they'd want Horford or Williams. Maybe a three team trade that gets them a big, that's what they really need. Yet they also don't have anyone ready to replace Rozier after letting Graham and Monk leave. Do they need anyone to replace Rozier? With LaMelo on that team it feels they're not using Rozier correctly. I'm not going to insist on this one because I don't see a way for that trade to work, but seriously it would solve a lot of our issues. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 3, 2021 21:22:08 GMT -5
14-2 start, 0-4 from 3. Rough start in Utah.
Edited to add they righted the ship a bit - Utah up 4, 56-52, but Smart sporting a -13. Team 26% on 3s.
heading into the 4th, still a 3 point lead for Utah - Smart is now a -15. Tatum has taken off. Can the Celts get the stops, and keep scoring, to pull this close game out?
Nope. Defense? Utah had three quarters of near 40 points (1 above, 2 close). This team can't close games.
Horford and Smart big negatives in point differential.
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 3, 2021 23:39:04 GMT -5
Really good game by the Cs, but tough to win any game when the opponent just go nuts from downtown like that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2021 7:50:07 GMT -5
I don't see it, like they'd want Horford or Williams. Maybe a three team trade that gets them a big, that's what they really need. Yet they also don't have anyone ready to replace Rozier after letting Graham and Monk leave. Do they need anyone to replace Rozier? With LaMelo on that team it feels they're not using Rozier correctly. I'm not going to insist on this one because I don't see a way for that trade to work, but seriously it would solve a lot of our issues. That might be MJ greatest team, kinda reminds me of the Celtics years back. Collection of young and older talent. I agree in that using Rozier at SG isn't great, yet Ball covers for him and he basically plays PG on D. So it's about replacing his scoring, D, rebounds, assists, etc. Last year they had Monk and Graham, yet they let both go and that rookie hasn't done anything yet. You never say never, yet it looks like a long shot unless something bad happens. It would be a perfect fit if you could ship off Smart and get Rozier. That's exactly what you need and would transform the team overnight. |
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Post by philarhody on Dec 4, 2021 8:55:01 GMT -5
Do they need anyone to replace Rozier? With LaMelo on that team it feels they're not using Rozier correctly. I'm not going to insist on this one because I don't see a way for that trade to work, but seriously it would solve a lot of our issues. That might be MJ greatest team, kinda reminds me of the Celtics years back. Collection of young and older talent. I agree in that using Rozier at SG isn't great, yet Ball covers for him and he basically plays PG on D. So it's about replacing his scoring, D, rebounds, assists, etc. Last year they had Monk and Graham, yet they let both go and that rookie hasn't done anything yet. You never say never, yet it looks like a long shot unless something bad happens. It would be a perfect fit if you could ship off Smart and get Rozier. That's exactly what you need and would transform the team overnight. I really don’t want to troll this board. But it’s hard for me to continually read things like “Terry Rozier is exactly what this team needs” and not respond. Terry Rozier is almost the opposite of what this team needs. What this team has is two generational wing shooters. What it needs is a creator to put the ball in the hands of Jayson and Jaylen once the defense is disadvantaged. Terry Rozier is a good player. But he is a 6’2 shooting specialist who guards point guards. This was why I was disappointed in the Nesmith pick at the time. The Celtics didn’t need wing shooting, because you can’t play three wing shooters when none of them are primaries. The model for this Celtics team should be the Warriors. Run the offense through your centers and put Jayson and Jaylen through tons of screens and off ball actions until they get the ball in highly advantaged situations. Steph Curry is not a great isolation player. He lacks burst and length to finish over longer one on one defenders. But give him the ball with a defender on his hip and his elite shooting and finishing skills are unlocked. The Tatum/Brown primary scorer/creator experiment has been conducted, and it failed. It has failed because Tatum is not explosive enough as a driver/finisher, and Brown is not a good enough ball handler/passer. Putting a spot up shooter at point guard is not going to change any of that. And I’m not sure Rozier over Smart upgrades the team as currently constructed. |
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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2021 9:04:24 GMT -5
I think we’ve seen enough now to say that Tatum doesn’t want to play that way. He wants to have the ball in his hands and score one-on-one in that old school Kobe/Melo style.We’ve now had two coaches preach the importance of ball movement and off-ball action to no avail. At a certain point, it’s on the players, not the coaches, and we’re well past that point by now. Players can certainly change (Pierce had a similar rep at one point, for instance), but until that happens, hard to see this core being a title contender.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Dec 4, 2021 9:20:20 GMT -5
Really good game by the Cs, but tough to win any game when the opponent just go nuts from downtown like that. Sums up my feelings as well, probably our best offensive game of the season against a good defensive team. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2021 9:48:59 GMT -5
That might be MJ greatest team, kinda reminds me of the Celtics years back. Collection of young and older talent. I agree in that using Rozier at SG isn't great, yet Ball covers for him and he basically plays PG on D. So it's about replacing his scoring, D, rebounds, assists, etc. Last year they had Monk and Graham, yet they let both go and that rookie hasn't done anything yet. You never say never, yet it looks like a long shot unless something bad happens. It would be a perfect fit if you could ship off Smart and get Rozier. That's exactly what you need and would transform the team overnight. I really don’t want to troll this board. But it’s hard for me to continually read things like “Terry Rozier is exactly what this team needs” and not respond. Terry Rozier is almost the opposite of what this team needs. What this team has is two generational wing shooters. What it needs is a creator to put the ball in the hands of Jayson and Jaylen once the defense is disadvantaged. Terry Rozier is a good player. But he is a 6’2 shooting specialist who guards point guards. This was why I was disappointed in the Nesmith pick at the time. The Celtics didn’t need wing shooting, because you can’t play three wing shooters when none of them are primaries. The model for this Celtics team should be the Warriors. Run the offense through your centers and put Jayson and Jaylen through tons of screens and off ball actions until they get the ball in highly advantaged situations. Steph Curry is not a great isolation player. He lacks burst and length to finish over longer one on one defenders. But give him the ball with a defender on his hip and his elite shooting and finishing skills are unlocked. The Tatum/Brown primary scorer/creator experiment has been conducted, and it failed. It has failed because Tatum is not explosive enough as a driver/finisher, and Brown is not a good enough ball handler/passer. Putting a spot up shooter at point guard is not going to change any of that. And I’m not sure Rozier over Smart upgrades the team as currently constructed. That's what Rozier does though. He can constantly get into the paint and he willing kicks it back out at a high rate. Thus getting guys opportunities not going straight at the D. It gets Tatum and Brown iso situations where the defense is not set at stopping them. Smart can't do that. Rozier also loves to get the ball and push fastbreaks. Attacking the D before they get set. Add in his shooting and scoring, yeah he's exactly what this team needs. Nevermind he already has chemistry and Tatum/Brown will trust him more. You get back to 2018 and 2020 before Kemba got hurt, Rozier and Walker formed a three headed monster on offense that made everyone better. It's not about stopping iso, it's about doing it with ball movement after getting the D to adjust and collapse in the paint. Opens up the shooters and creates open driving lanes. Ime can literally watch the tape from those playoffs, same four players incert Williams for Bayne. |
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Post by philarhody on Dec 4, 2021 11:44:33 GMT -5
I think we’ve seen enough now to say that Tatum doesn’t want to play that way. He wants to have the ball in his hands and score one-on-one in that old school Kobe/Melo style.We’ve now had two coaches preach the importance of ball movement and off-ball action to no avail. At a certain point, it’s on the players, not the coaches, and we’re well past that point by now. Players can certainly change (Pierce had a similar rep at one point, for instance), but until that happens, hard to see this core being a title contender. But what we haven’t seen is accountability from the coaching side of things. If Jayson doesn’t want to play nice, bench him. If he forces shots with 14 seconds on the shot clock, bench him. If he stands in the corner every time someone else has the ball, bench him. If he moans to the refs because an opponent decides to play defense, bench him. It is poor leadership when you wax poetic about ball movement but do nothing when your best players ignore you. |
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Post by philarhody on Dec 4, 2021 11:49:54 GMT -5
I really don’t want to troll this board. But it’s hard for me to continually read things like “Terry Rozier is exactly what this team needs” and not respond. Terry Rozier is almost the opposite of what this team needs. What this team has is two generational wing shooters. What it needs is a creator to put the ball in the hands of Jayson and Jaylen once the defense is disadvantaged. Terry Rozier is a good player. But he is a 6’2 shooting specialist who guards point guards. This was why I was disappointed in the Nesmith pick at the time. The Celtics didn’t need wing shooting, because you can’t play three wing shooters when none of them are primaries. The model for this Celtics team should be the Warriors. Run the offense through your centers and put Jayson and Jaylen through tons of screens and off ball actions until they get the ball in highly advantaged situations. Steph Curry is not a great isolation player. He lacks burst and length to finish over longer one on one defenders. But give him the ball with a defender on his hip and his elite shooting and finishing skills are unlocked. The Tatum/Brown primary scorer/creator experiment has been conducted, and it failed. It has failed because Tatum is not explosive enough as a driver/finisher, and Brown is not a good enough ball handler/passer. Putting a spot up shooter at point guard is not going to change any of that. And I’m not sure Rozier over Smart upgrades the team as currently constructed. That's what Rozier does though. He can constantly get into the paint and he willing kicks it back out at a high rate. Thus getting guys opportunities not going straight at the D. It gets Tatum and Brown iso situations where the defense is not set at stopping them. Smart can't do that. Rozier also loves to get the ball and push fastbreaks. Attacking the D before they get set. Add in his shooting and scoring, yeah he's exactly what this team needs. Nevermind he already has chemistry and Tatum/Brown will trust him more. You get back to 2018 and 2020 before Kemba got hurt, Rozier and Walker formed a three headed monster on offense that made everyone better. It's not about stopping iso, it's about doing it with ball movement after getting the D to adjust and collapse in the paint. Opens up the shooters and creates open driving lanes. Ime can literally watch the tape from those playoffs, same four players incert Williams for Bayne. I don’t know, I can’t find his rim finishing percentages. I know he has improved over the last couple of years but he had been a terrible rim finisher and is still an underwhelming playmaker for a point guard. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2021 12:36:43 GMT -5
That's what Rozier does though. He can constantly get into the paint and he willing kicks it back out at a high rate. Thus getting guys opportunities not going straight at the D. It gets Tatum and Brown iso situations where the defense is not set at stopping them. Smart can't do that. Rozier also loves to get the ball and push fastbreaks. Attacking the D before they get set. Add in his shooting and scoring, yeah he's exactly what this team needs. Nevermind he already has chemistry and Tatum/Brown will trust him more. You get back to 2018 and 2020 before Kemba got hurt, Rozier and Walker formed a three headed monster on offense that made everyone better. It's not about stopping iso, it's about doing it with ball movement after getting the D to adjust and collapse in the paint. Opens up the shooters and creates open driving lanes. Ime can literally watch the tape from those playoffs, same four players incert Williams for Bayne. I don’t know, I can’t find his rim finishing percentages. I know he has improved over the last couple of years but he had been a terrible rim finisher and is still an underwhelming playmaker for a point guard. He's at 67.9% at the rim this year, accounts for 18.3% of his shots. He's a much more efficient offensive player than we got to see in Boston. He averaged around 6 assists when starting at PG for us. Don't overlook his faster pace and easy transition points. It's Tatum and Brown trusting a PG so they don't try and do everything themselves. You get that with Rozier, you don't with Smart. Nevermind how he fits better with Schroder, you can swing him to SG and go small. Team ball requires the right mix. I can't blame Tatum and Brown, look who's creating for them and the spacing around them. Kemba wasn't great at creating, yet he could collapse the D and took pressure off of Tatum and Brown. One could have an off night and you were fine, right now that's not the case. |
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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2021 12:39:13 GMT -5
I think we’ve seen enough now to say that Tatum doesn’t want to play that way. He wants to have the ball in his hands and score one-on-one in that old school Kobe/Melo style.We’ve now had two coaches preach the importance of ball movement and off-ball action to no avail. At a certain point, it’s on the players, not the coaches, and we’re well past that point by now. Players can certainly change (Pierce had a similar rep at one point, for instance), but until that happens, hard to see this core being a title contender. But what we haven’t seen is accountability from the coaching side of things. If Jayson doesn’t want to play nice, bench him. If he forces shots with 14 seconds on the shot clock, bench him. If he stands in the corner every time someone else has the ball, bench him. If he moans to the refs because an opponent decides to play defense, bench him. It is poor leadership when you wax poetic about ball movement but do nothing when your best players ignore you. It’s tough to bench your 23 year old star. Not really that kind of league and the whispers are starting already about his happiness here. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 4, 2021 13:59:43 GMT -5
So are we in "participation award" territory with this team? A loss is a loss and they can't seem to escape the gravitational pull of .500. All I've read (NESN, WEEI, etc) are how great a game it was, they were close, they didn't give up.
I realize there are injuries. But....as far as I can tell, the aim is still to win, get into the playoffs in a good position, etc. I just don't feel like this version of the Celtics is cut out for much more than .500 or slightly better. I hope they prove me wrong as the season unfolds.
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Post by philarhody on Dec 4, 2021 18:08:38 GMT -5
But what we haven’t seen is accountability from the coaching side of things. If Jayson doesn’t want to play nice, bench him. If he forces shots with 14 seconds on the shot clock, bench him. If he stands in the corner every time someone else has the ball, bench him. If he moans to the refs because an opponent decides to play defense, bench him. It is poor leadership when you wax poetic about ball movement but do nothing when your best players ignore you. It’s tough to bench your 23 year old star. Not really that kind of league and the whispers are starting already about his happiness here. Yeah it is tough to do it. It’s also tough to sit back and watch a 23 year old shoot your team into .500 territory. Either way is tough. |
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Post by philarhody on Dec 4, 2021 18:09:19 GMT -5
I don’t know, I can’t find his rim finishing percentages. I know he has improved over the last couple of years but he had been a terrible rim finisher and is still an underwhelming playmaker for a point guard. He's at 67.9% at the rim this year, accounts for 18.3% of his shots. He's a much more efficient offensive player than we got to see in Boston. He averaged around 6 assists when starting at PG for us. Don't overlook his faster pace and easy transition points. It's Tatum and Brown trusting a PG so they don't try and do everything themselves. You get that with Rozier, you don't with Smart. Nevermind how he fits better with Schroder, you can swing him to SG and go small. Team ball requires the right mix. I can't blame Tatum and Brown, look who's creating for them and the spacing around them. Kemba wasn't great at creating, yet he could collapse the D and took pressure off of Tatum and Brown. One could have an off night and you were fine, right now that's not the case. Wow that’s a significant difference. Good point. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 4, 2021 22:47:23 GMT -5
Celts again looking soft and gutless on second of back to backs. Trade the team and fire the coach. Exhume Red.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Dec 4, 2021 23:52:56 GMT -5
Turning into a bit of a laugher on the road. This team is going to be hard to figure all year long, methinks. Two monster quarters leading into the 4th.
Schroder +30, Freedom (!!) +29
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 5, 2021 1:54:34 GMT -5
That technical foul towards the end was the best tech I’ve ever seen, good to see them having fun
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 5, 2021 7:19:20 GMT -5
That technical foul towards the end was the best tech I’ve ever seen, good to see them having fun Great to see a game when Pritchard could have time and success. You have to pull for that scrappy guy. The team has needed rebounding for a few years and Enes is definitely valuable at least from that standpoint. With Al and Timelord seemingly alternating needing rest/recovering, he is filling a gap. I don't watch as closely nor am as analytical as some so I wonder if Enes is also playing better defense which is contributing to more playing time? |
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Dec 5, 2021 10:06:36 GMT -5
That technical foul towards the end was the best tech I’ve ever seen, good to see them having fun Great to see a game when Pritchard could have time and success. You have to pull for that scrappy guy. The team has needed rebounding for a few years and Enes is definitely valuable at least from that standpoint. With Al and Timelord seemingly alternating needing rest/recovering, he is filling a gap. I don't watch as closely nor am as analytical as some so I wonder if Enes is also playing better defense which is contributing to more playing time? Honestly Enes has been way better than I expected. He's hustling a lot more and looks engaged. He will never be a good defender and yet maybe our defensive prowess can mask him in certain matchups. In my view he really opens up our offense with his screening and improves rebounding which has been an immense boon. Great to see nice minutes from Pritchard and Nesmith as well, but most of all good to see the team enjoying playing which each other, especially on the road. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2021 12:12:06 GMT -5
Injuries might save Ime from himself. Maybe we're starting to see some change, he finally broke the two bigs starting 2nd half of the Jazz game. Puts in Nesmith and Pritchard early and they have good games. Look what happens when you add shooting and aren't playing two centers, amazing.
In the regular season defense is a lot about effort and rebounding. Kanter was rated well his first stop here in the regular season for this reason. Playoffs are a different story when teams game plan.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2021 12:22:04 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Dec 6, 2021 13:31:38 GMT -5
Came to post the same. I'm okay with it; I actually like Dragic even though he seemed to age in dog years last season, and Siakam seems to be injured a lot. But it'd open up the roster some and raise the ceiling. I'm guessing we aren't giving up enough. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2021 13:47:25 GMT -5
Came to post the same. I'm okay with it; I actually like Dragic even though he seemed to age in dog years last season, and Siakam seems to be injured a lot. But it'd open up the roster some and raise the ceiling. I'm guessing we aren't giving up enough. Yeah you might need to add a pick or something like that. Get a third team like the Hornets involved. Heck let's swing for the fences and get Siakam and Rozier in a three team trade. |
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