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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 27, 2021 12:04:52 GMT -5
You gotta let people vent with the emotions of the game - maybe people just need to know when a game is on and read things accordingly. I know and I'm sorry if it sounded like an asshole, but seriously the Red Sox season got hard to follow at times on gameday threads and it was a successful season! And this isn't exclusive to this board either. Maybe it's the times we live in, but I feel like people are taking things far too passionately. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2021 13:08:42 GMT -5
I basically stay away from the GameDay thread, it drives me crazy. This thread is all threads rolled into one, so I get it. I just joke about it, hot takes don't usually age well. Yet some people just need to vent.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 27, 2021 14:20:06 GMT -5
Was just looking at box scores… Malik Monk was a plus 31 last night - played 39 of 53 minutes and the Lakers only won by 4…. So they got thrashed in the 14 minutes he wasn’t in.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 27, 2021 15:01:43 GMT -5
Was just looking at box scores… Malik Monk was a plus 31 last night - played 39 of 53 minutes and the Lakers only won by 4…. So they got thrashed in the 14 minutes he wasn’t in. Monk is a really good player, it surprises me greatly how the market underrated him. Oh and Westbrook had his best game without Lebron. Not a coincidence IMO, this was such a bad pairing. |
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Post by philarhody on Oct 27, 2021 20:49:17 GMT -5
Refs have been tough in this Celtics game. But this team needs to play hard through physical play and bad officiating.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Oct 27, 2021 20:57:00 GMT -5
The referee should be fired no questions asked. If any league is fixed it's the NBA.
2 naked eye obviously horrendous no excuse calls made late in a game against the same team by the same referee.
If players fail at what they do enough they are cut, for ref's, they get playoff games in baseball and basketball, but no-one wants to investigate these leagues, smh.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 27, 2021 21:07:54 GMT -5
Didn't watch or listen, just peeked at the box. Dominant quarters 2 and 3, slow start and poor finish. One again Smart's line looks awful (despite the +3). What went wrong in this one?
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Post by philarhody on Oct 27, 2021 21:13:15 GMT -5
Celtics lost a physical game against a team that was tougher tonight.
As for Ime, I’m concerned. Tatum and Brown combined for 14 of 38 from the field, 2 of 12 from three and only had 3 combined assists. That means on a night they didn’t have it, they continued to force shots. Bad on them, right? Not so fast.
The best shooter that Tatum and Brown were playing with all night was either Schroder or Horford. Nesmith got a dnp. Pritchard got a dnp. So what are they supposed to do? When you drive to the basket, and Smart and Horford are bricking the ball when you dish it to them, I’m not sure what you do.
Why isn’t Ime playing Nesmith or Pritchard? These were two of their best 8 players in the last month of the season last year, and they were rookies. There is no way that Josh Richardson should be getting meaningful minutes over them. Pritchard needs to get some of Smart’s minutes. Especially on nights when he is shooting like he has been.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2021 21:23:13 GMT -5
I will apologize in advance because I won't stop saying pick one of Horford and Williams. I'm just not a fan of how Ime is using the roster.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 27, 2021 21:34:05 GMT -5
Another soft performance by a group that’s becoming familiar with these types of losses.
They’ve have too many years of not being held accountable for bad habits and lazy mistakes, and it looks like more of the same from Ime.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 27, 2021 22:05:30 GMT -5
I will apologize in advance because I won't stop saying pick one of Horford and Williams. I'm just not a fan of how Ime is using the roster. Agreed, it's a poor mix unless you had like Steve Nash running point. With Marcus Smart, the team is SLOW as molasses and lack any go to play. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 27, 2021 22:27:50 GMT -5
Post game. Ime is already pissed.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2021 23:38:23 GMT -5
Hey Ime difference in the Knicks and Charlotte game was no Horford and Williams. Given Smart, Horford and Williams, you are putting way too much pressure on Tatum and Brown. Don't want them going ISO and playing team ball? Put in players to help them. I don't know how you watched the Hornets game and look at who the Wiz are playing and come up with Horford and Williams. It blows my mind.
Yet we also have bigger issues, look at those Bench minutes 2 rebounds. I'm calling out everyone not named Robert Williams, Horford or Tatum.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Oct 27, 2021 23:38:44 GMT -5
Ime is pissed and that's good but it's obvious that
1. The Jays are basically hijacking the offense and coasting
2. Marcus Smart is not the PG we thought
3. Ime needs to play more than a fucking 9 man rotation this early in the season to avoid burnout. You want to pure energy? Put in Pritchard and Nesmith.
4. Ime needs to fix his trash switch everything defense because we look like pure shit defensively.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 28, 2021 6:05:26 GMT -5
They need to play more up tempo and Smart doesn't push the ball. PP does and he got zero minutes. And the 2 big rotation just isn't working. It is early and this could be some growing pains for Ime but losing to subpar teams, not moving the ball and lackadaisical D is a bad combination.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Oct 28, 2021 8:04:04 GMT -5
They need to play more up tempo and Smart doesn't push the ball. PP does and he got zero minutes. And the 2 big rotation just isn't working. It is early and this could be some growing pains for Ime but losing to subpar teams, not moving the ball and lackadaisical D is a bad combination. My biggest concern is that this is exactly the same downfall from last season. I really hoped that a new coach, new vets (Al/DS), different role for Smart, and increased expectations on the Jays would have this team turn some corners. I get the trade for Richardson, but I think the short term benefits of playing the kids now aligns with the long-term need for ceiling, and will hopefully add some hunger and urgency. Smart really worries me now. Last season I can't remember a single game they blew someone out by 20+ and there was no lull or comeback. Good teams just need to kill people sometimes and they never do. And at what point are our two best players the problem? |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Oct 28, 2021 8:19:05 GMT -5
They need to play more up tempo and Smart doesn't push the ball. PP does and he got zero minutes. And the 2 big rotation just isn't working. It is early and this could be some growing pains for Ime but losing to subpar teams, not moving the ball and lackadaisical D is a bad combination. My biggest concern is that this is exactly the same downfall from last season. I really hoped that a new coach, new vets (Al/DS), different role for Smart, and increased expectations on the Jays would have this team turn some corners. I get the trade for Richardson, but I think the short term benefits of playing the kids now aligns with the long-term need for ceiling, and will hopefully add some hunger and urgency. Smart really worries me now. Last season I can't remember a single game they blew someone out by 20+ and there was no lull or comeback. Good teams just need to kill people sometimes and they never do. And at what point are our two best players the problem? Or... basically what Ianrs said above. |
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 28, 2021 8:23:37 GMT -5
I've wanted Smart off the team for some time. Nothing I've seen changes my mind on that. Even above that, the team, as constructed, seems to have major flaws. Ime may just have an impossible job to bring this particular collection to excellence. We shall see.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Oct 28, 2021 10:11:59 GMT -5
I still think Smart is getting too much hate - hes just miscast in the role and hes an absolutely incredible and versatile defender; its just not showing up in the boxscore. You could argue that since offense is so important that we need a more offensively minded PG that can distribute and shoot better to complement the Jays.
I wonder if the move is to start PP since he seems like a better fit with the Jays, then bring Smart off the bench in a two guard lineup with Schroder.
I feel like PP-Brown-Tatum-Grant-Timelord could actually be a solid lineup; or PP-Brown-Tatum-Grant-Horford. I think a 5 out offense needs to be done with Tatum more often where its basically PP-Nesmith or Romeo-Jaylen-Jayson-Horford; or Grant could go in and bump out Nesmith/Rome if you think thats too small. Get creative Ime. I still have a lot of confidence in him to figure it out. I honestly think you could get really fucking crazy and go with something like Romeo-Jaylen-Tatum-Grant-Horford in a 5 out, jumbo switch everything where Tatum is the point forward role like Luka. Then you let Smart and Schroder go bash bros chaos mode energy off the bench. I'm not even joking.
Then you could have a nice bench unit that could run with Schroder-Smart-Romeo-X-Timelord
Its a shame Scottie Barnes is a really good player and was never coming to us because he would be a pretty ideal 4 for this team that could defend well, run in transition, finish at the rim, and pass immensely well for a big.
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Post by jmei on Oct 28, 2021 10:51:53 GMT -5
Let’s tone down some of the profanity. Thanks.
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Post by rminns10 on Oct 28, 2021 11:17:05 GMT -5
While i agree with what Ime is saying, you cant do that after every loss. Times are different and he'll get tuned out real quick. The rotations have me baffled though.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 28, 2021 12:50:06 GMT -5
I've wanted Smart off the team for some time. Nothing I've seen changes my mind on that. Even above that, the team, as constructed, seems to have major flaws. Ime may just have an impossible job to bring this particular collection to excellence. We shall see. This team has some flaws, yet Ime is making everything worse with his rotations. Last game his floor spacing and guys to help create for Tatum and Brown was Horford, Robert Williams and Smart. To top it off the best shooter he used off the bench was Grant Williams. I haven't seen this crap in so long, I guess we've been spoiled with Doc and Stevens for so long. Five games in, what I said before the season that Schroder was clearly your best true PG looks rather clear. I don't like starting Smart and Schröder, yet it's way better than what he's doing. If you want to play team ball and not have our two young star players do too much you can't start Robert Williams, Horford and Smart. That's 1990s and early 2000 NBA basketball. It's like he doesn't understand Horford isn't a prime aged Tim Duncan. Duncan gets drafted today, he's a center not PF. He was on the bench of the 76ers when Horford at PF with an all-time great center didn't work. Yet now he wants to team up a rim runner with Horford. In my book Smart is our third best PG. It's clear as day, he's more SG than PG because he can't easily drive and make the D collapse. Yet he's not a good enough shooter at SG unless you have a crazy scoring PG. His best pairing is Pritchard. The biggest issue might be trying to play Smart 35 minutes and find players that fit to cover his weaknesses. It's why I would have traded him in two seconds to get Lonzo Ball. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 29, 2021 8:55:41 GMT -5
Ya gotta give him time...but I wonder how long it will be before the 'fire Stevens' mantra extends to Ime....
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 29, 2021 10:25:40 GMT -5
Any new coach deserves at least two years before we really draw conclusions - young coaches have the ability to improve just like young players do. He needs time to implement his own approach and system, and make adjustments to his own style based on what does and doesn’t work.
But I do think it’s fair to criticize him for not backing up any of the things he preached in the offseason and preseason. Calling out players for whining in press conferences won’t have any effect if there’s zero follow-through. It’s time to start holding players accountable and showing them the bench if things don’t change.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 29, 2021 12:10:01 GMT -5
Any new coach deserves at least two years before we really draw conclusions - young coaches have the ability to improve just like young players do. He needs time to implement his own approach and system, and make adjustments to his own style based on what does and doesn’t work. But I do think it’s fair to criticize him for not backing up any of the things he preached in the offseason and preseason. Calling out players for whining in press conferences won’t have any effect if there’s zero follow-through. It’s time to start holding players accountable and showing them the bench if things don’t change. Maybe just maybe he should be coaching what he learned under Pop all those years rather than his own idea as to how a team should play. Their are just too many guys on the C's who have proven to be very good defensively for them to be this bad under what he is trying to do. And yes, enough of the 2 big lineups, they failed last year and they are failing again this year. And what has happened to pushing the ball? Is PP the only PG that tries to create a uptempo game? Use your athleticism and run, it will take pressure off the Js to create. Play tough D and run should be the mantra and they don't do it. Frustrating!! Deep breathe, it's early. |
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