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What 2021-22 Free Agents Do You Want
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 18, 2022 17:54:18 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team?Its called Team Chemistry. If forcing a switch is going to create a divide in the clubhouse and lead to less production from everyone then that might not be worth it. Xander has made it known he isn't looking to change positions. Perhaps he will change his mind but if not its Cora's job to determine whats best based on the personalities involved. It isn't all about the spreadsheet.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 18, 2022 17:56:44 GMT -5
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X. To be fair, one of them is getting cut loose anyways. Can we agree that Xander's days at SS are numbered? Yeah I guess he can soldier on until Mayer is ready, but those defensive ratings aren't very kind to him. So Xander will have to slide over to 3b which is fine if they don't resign Raffy. Only one of them can play 3b. You might argue well you can always DH Raffy and play Bogaerts at 3b down the road. I suppose you can but I can't see the Sox paying Devers the money he wants just to DH. If they extend him, it will be as a 3b. Pay Bogaerts to play 3B (and continue to rake) and pay Devers to DH. Raffy's already putting up big WAR numbers while posting mostly negative D numbers at 3B. He's a special hitter and still only 25.
Once you've signed them, they have to play where the manager tells them to play.
If you want to pay Story to play 2B this year and move him to SS for 3 more years until Mayer is ready, fine, but I'm leery of his home/road splits and I would guess Chaim is too.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:58:06 GMT -5
The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team?Its called Team Chemistry. If forcing a switch is going to create a divide in the clubhouse and lead to less production from everyone then that might not be worth it. Xander has made it known he isn't looking to change positions. Perhaps he will change his mind but if not its Cora's job to determine whats best based on the personalities involved. It isn't all about the spreadsheet. Xander's attitude towards playing short stop could even cost him money. Heck, if he tried second base and was better at it then SS, he might have more value defensively. It adds to the confusion and frustration for me. He's thinking he's adding value to his next free agent contract by playing a valuable position, but in reality the lack of versatility will make teams question where he can play in his next contract.
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 18, 2022 18:06:24 GMT -5
Its called Team Chemistry. If forcing a switch is going to create a divide in the clubhouse and lead to less production from everyone then that might not be worth it. Xander has made it known he isn't looking to change positions. Perhaps he will change his mind but if not its Cora's job to determine whats best based on the personalities involved. It isn't all about the spreadsheet. Xander's attitude towards playing short stop could even cost him money. Heck, if he tried second base and was better at it then SS, he might have more value defensively. It adds to the confusion and frustration for me. He's thinking he's adding value to his next free agent contract by playing a valuable position, but in reality the lack of versatility will make teams question where he can play in his next contract. I agree 100% which is why I think there is a chance that Xander will come around. Again, if its his idea (even if its financially motivated) vs forced on him he will be a lot more receptive. If Story comes in like he owns the position and is pushing X out then there will be problems. Its just human nature.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 18:09:02 GMT -5
Xander's attitude towards playing short stop could even cost him money. Heck, if he tried second base and was better at it then SS, he might have more value defensively. It adds to the confusion and frustration for me. He's thinking he's adding value to his next free agent contract by playing a valuable position, but in reality the lack of versatility will make teams question where he can play in his next contract. I agree 100% which is why I think there is a chance that Xander will come around. Again, if its his idea (even if its financially motivated) vs forced on him he will be a lot more receptive. If Story comes in like he owns the position and is pushing X out then there will be problems. Its just human nature. Yup, Story can look at Xander and his lack of range and say "Why is that dude playing there, when I could have gotten to that ball?" Hopefully he comes around. Story might fail his physical anyways, if there's this much concern over the elbow.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Mar 18, 2022 18:12:00 GMT -5
I could live with this. At least it would show that they are trying. Story should be right in his prime. He had a down year last year but he was top 15 for MVP during the previous 3 seasons. I’m hoping it ends up being 4yr/$100m with some option years, though. 6 years is too long. Rosenthal is a lot more credible than Heyman who was clearly throwing the Sox name into everything for clicks. If they can get Story that would shore up 2B. EDIT: just saw Rosenthal using Heyman as a source. Never mind. Semantics, but I believe Rosenthal is doing his own reporting and saying Heyman linked the Sox to Story first, not that he was just using Heyman as a source.
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dirtdog
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 18, 2022 18:26:05 GMT -5
Hope not.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 18, 2022 18:29:43 GMT -5
Because he's still like a 5 WAR player at SS, and it doesn't make that much difference if the alternative is to move him to 2B, and who knows if he wouldn't suck worse at 2B, and there's no reason to screw with team chemistry, and injuries, etc., mean that things may well sort themselves out anyway, and there's something to be said for being loyal to a guy whose spent his whole excellent career in Boston, and he's not that bad a defensive SS anyway.
Can't you say the same for Story, who could suck at second base since he never played a inning there in his career? The worse defensive player is playing a more important position. Just half backwards logic. 'the worse defensive player' is an overly simplistic way of assessing a player's defensive abilities. Story has solid range, a plus arm and plus hands. Bogaerts has poor range, a plus arm and plus hands. At 2nd base, the arm is less of a need but the hands and range are just as important. Story would likely be quite good at 2nd, while Xander would likely be a poor-to-average 2nd baseman. Last year, there were more putouts from 2nd basemen and more assists from SS (with more AST+PO at 2B), based on that, you could argue that putting the guy with more range at 2nd is the better move. Putouts and assists oversimplifies the differences between the positions, but it shows that SS isn't clearly a more important defensive position than 2B, it simply requires a player with a stronger and more accurate arm. (Positional WAR adjustments give people the wrong idea; and they're really dumb) Story has only played SS in the majors, but he pitched in high school, so he has some experience at playing multiple positions in the past. Xander is a lifelong SS who attempted to play some 3B in 2013 & 2014 with historically poor results. I'd bet on Story being able to adjust to the new position better than Xander. It's close, but overall I'd keep Xander at SS and moving Story to 2B, if those were the only choices. It's likely a more optimal setup and less likely that a player (Xander) will implode if moved to a new position.
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 18, 2022 18:31:42 GMT -5
That is more than anyone expected...makes me think somebody is getting traded to balance that salary
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dirtdog
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 18, 2022 18:34:25 GMT -5
That is more than anyone expected...makes me think somebody is getting traded to balance that salary The 7/220 is not a verified account
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 18, 2022 18:34:25 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 18, 2022 18:51:39 GMT -5
Dude is from Boston. And we should sign him.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 18, 2022 19:05:29 GMT -5
It's not getting crapped on. It's logic and business. So again you don't trade or let productive winners leave the team. Carlos Correa is not anywhere close to Xander in terms of on the field production. One is excellent every year and the other can't stay on the field. Carlos Correa has a higher total WAR than Bogaerts does while joining the bigs 2 seasons later. Again, I’m fine with people who don’t want to sign Correa and give him 10/300+. I totally understand the hesitation. We don’t need to be spreading falsehoods to try and justify it though. Not only is Correa “close” to Bogaerts in on-field production, he’s impacted winning more than Bogaerts has overall while playing far fewer games
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 19:05:44 GMT -5
If only someone had explained this to me before, I’d be on board. Trade Mookie for a lesser OF, your future 2b. Have that lesser 2b look really bad. Use the saved money to get a SS to play 2b instead. Likely move him back to SS next year when you let either X or Devers walk. Don’t find another OF. It is all clear now. You brought it up! Mookie was never staying. IT Dept…..Can we add a mute button?
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Mar 18, 2022 19:06:38 GMT -5
If only someone had explained this to me before, I’d be on board. Trade Mookie for a lesser OF, your future 2b. Have that lesser 2b look really bad. Use the saved money to get a SS to play 2b instead. Likely move him back to SS next year when you let either X or Devers walk. Don’t find another OF. It is all clear now. You brought it up! Mookie was never staying. IT Dept…..Can we add a mute button? . 🙄 I would say if they go out and spent huge money on a player for the first time since their salary dumps began, it is worth considering ghe context of that new contract.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 18, 2022 19:10:10 GMT -5
100 pages of posts and the biggest free agent signing is Michael Wacha, the guy the Red Sox bombed in Game 6 of the clinching game of the World Series. Good lord.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 19:12:08 GMT -5
Among current SS for their careers, Story has accumulated bWAR at a rate only surpassed by four others:
Franco (in a small sample) Tatis Jr.
Correa Bichette
bWAR considers park factors too, so it's not just a case of Coors being Coors. Story's just really good. He put up 4.2 bWAR last year in a down offensive year. When 4.2 bWAR is clearly a down season, that's when you know you have a good player on your hands. If you think last year is the start of an early decline, I can't comment on that. I can just comment on what he's done, which has been spectacular.
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X. If the Red Sox choose not to re-sign X, because he refuses to play another position, then he can blame no one but himself for not being Re-signed !!!!!!!!!!
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Mar 18, 2022 19:16:02 GMT -5
I'm going to register my belief that I think it costs the Red Sox very little to have the worse infielder at shortstop and the better infielder at second base. If that keeps everyone happy then fine. Yeah, and this way Xander gets to be more like his childhood idol Derek Jeter in playing SS while a better SS plays next to him. I have to say, Ian Cundall's citing on twitter of Story's hit chart superimposed over Fenway's dimensions is very encouraging, even though I know some of these long flies were helped by the altitude.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 19:16:25 GMT -5
To be fair, one of them is getting cut loose anyways. Can we agree that Xander's days at SS are numbered? Yeah I guess he can soldier on until Mayer is ready, but those defensive ratings aren't very kind to him. So Xander will have to slide over to 3b which is fine if they don't resign Raffy. Only one of them can play 3b. You might argue well you can always DH Raffy and play Bogaerts at 3b down the road. I suppose you can but I can't see the Sox paying Devers the money he wants just to DH. If they extend him, it will be as a 3b. Still a better SS than Jeter was in his last 10 years. That is a very low bar I would prefer the Red Sox not have to compare themselves to!
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Mar 18, 2022 19:17:14 GMT -5
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X. It is on X if he refuses to play a different position !!!!!!!!!! Or… if you willing to spend big money, you get a player in a spot where you didn’t have a guy who was just under 5 bWAR last season? A guy with big home/away splits in Colorado — so a bit of a risk?
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Mar 18, 2022 19:24:40 GMT -5
You brought it up! Mookie was never staying. IT Dept…..Can we add a mute button? You can actually block any member. The block works only for you and only when you are logged in. It allows you to click on a blocked comment if you're curious. My blocking someone can be a comment on them, or on me for my own inability to resist commenting on things I should leave alone.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Mar 18, 2022 19:27:34 GMT -5
It is on X if he refuses to play a different position !!!!!!!!!! Or… if you willing to spend big money, you get a player in a spot where you didn’t have a guy who was just under 5 bWAR last season? A guy with big home/away splits in Colorado — so a bit of a risk? To review: "However, the common approach of using a Rockies hitter’s road stats to predict how they’ll fare on a new team can be similarly flawed, short-changing them in the opposite direction. Just as Coors Field bloats their home stats, studies show that the lingering effects of calling Coors Field home also cause Rockies hitters to perform worse on the road. Colorado’s altitude causes breaking balls to lose effectiveness, so pitchers often increase their fastball usage at Coors Field. That in turn enables Rockies hitters to adjust their approach to hunt fastballs, and the breaking balls they do see are easier to hit. When they leave Coors Field, there’s a hangover effect that causes poor road performances, particularly early in road trips as the hitters readjust." theathletic.com/3188981/2022/03/16/buyer-beware-should-free-agent-suitors-be-scared-off-by-trevor-storys-extreme-splits-away-from-coors-field/
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Post by Guidas on Mar 18, 2022 19:30:24 GMT -5
Dude is from Boston. And we should sign him. I’m down with getting any guy named “Packy.”
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Post by prospectlove on Mar 18, 2022 19:32:46 GMT -5
And the same argument was stated by my grandpa when baseball expanded to wild cards. And inter league play. Don't like it...do like it..it's here!! And guess what, it worked out last time also and it will work out just fine this time. It will create more trades at trade deadline (because more teams will be in it). Teams out of it will fetch better returns. More teams should invest somemore because they feel they have a shot. Already it appears only 2 teams are stripping down. I don't want to be the NBA where few teams have a chance. But that's me. Just don't want to hear the constant negativity either. People who have said it have said it. It got voted in! Deal with it. I know that's not how people operate anymore though either so what do I know?? Might as well complain about it for the next 5 years instead. Let me know how you feel when a team under .500 wins the World Series, which will happen. If you pretend to like it, you'll be the only one. What is the point in the regular season then? If an over .500 team isn’t good enough to win in playoffs in short series then so be it. It’s playoffs. Wild card teams have almost been .500. What kind of crackers we want?
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Mar 18, 2022 19:33:02 GMT -5
Or… if you willing to spend big money, you get a player in a spot where you didn’t have a guy who was just under 5 bWAR last season? A guy with big home/away splits in Colorado — so a bit of a risk? To review: "However, the common approach of using a Rockies hitter’s road stats to predict how they’ll fare on a new team can be similarly flawed, short-changing them in the opposite direction. Just as Coors Field bloats their home stats, studies show that the lingering effects of calling Coors Field home also cause Rockies hitters to perform worse on the road. Colorado’s altitude causes breaking balls to lose effectiveness, so pitchers often increase their fastball usage at Coors Field. That in turn enables Rockies hitters to adjust their approach to hunt fastballs, and the breaking balls they do see are easier to hit. When they leave Coors Field, there’s a hangover effect that causes poor road performances, particularly early in road trips as the hitters readjust." theathletic.com/3188981/2022/03/16/buyer-beware-should-free-agent-suitors-be-scared-off-by-trevor-storys-extreme-splits-away-from-coors-field/I didn’t say dud. I said but of a risk. If they give him, say $150+, would you say *that* is the contract and guy you’d have wanted as a big outcome of these last few years?
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