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What 2021-22 Free Agents Do You Want
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Post by benzinger on Mar 18, 2022 17:09:53 GMT -5
I could live with this. At least it would show that they are trying. Story should be right in his prime. He had a down year last year but he was top 15 for MVP during the previous 3 seasons. I’m hoping it ends up being 4yr/$100m with some option years, though. 6 years is too long.
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Post by manfred on Mar 18, 2022 17:15:04 GMT -5
I'm not as high on Story as you are. I think his numbers are ok, but that all-star level great like I think you think he is. I don't need to see 6 years of that, especially age 33 and 34. I also think they'll have other alternatives for 3b by then, maybe even a guy named Raffy Devers, who hopefully will be a Red Sox and not a DH. Yes, Yorke and Mayer could bust, and I know those things can happen, but we're talking two first round draft picks who thus far have been quite successful. In Yorke's case he was dominant and in Mayer's case he was not only a first rounder, but an upper first rounder, somebody arguably seen as the best player in the draft. Yeah, I'll take my chances with those two, just like I'll take my chances with Casas at 1b. The rest of the farm system, I'm far less certain on, but those three I really like their chances of succeeding and being core players for the Red Sox by mid-decade. Among current SS for their careers, Story has accumulated bWAR at a rate only surpassed by four others:
Franco (in a small sample) Tatis Jr.
Correa Bichette
bWAR considers park factors too, so it's not just a case of Coors being Coors. Story's just really good. He put up 4.2 bWAR last year in a down offensive year. When 4.2 bWAR is clearly a down season, that's when you know you have a good player on your hands. If you think last year is the start of an early decline, I can't comment on that. I can just comment on what he's done, which has been spectacular.
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 18, 2022 17:20:21 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position.
But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 18, 2022 17:21:58 GMT -5
Among current SS for their careers, Story has accumulated bWAR at a rate only surpassed by four others:
Franco (in a small sample) Tatis Jr.
Correa Bichette bWAR considers park factors too, so it's not just a case of Coors being Coors. Story's just really good. He put up 4.2 bWAR last year in a down offensive year. When 4.2 bWAR is clearly a down season, that's when you know you have a good player on your hands. If you think last year is the start of an early decline, I can't comment on that. I can just comment on what he's done, which has been spectacular.
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X. To be fair, one of them is getting cut loose anyways. Can we agree that Xander's days at SS are numbered? Yeah I guess he can soldier on until Mayer is ready, but those defensive ratings aren't very kind to him. So Xander will have to slide over to 3b which is fine if they don't resign Raffy. Only one of them can play 3b. You might argue well you can always DH Raffy and play Bogaerts at 3b down the road. I suppose you can but I can't see the Sox paying Devers the money he wants just to DH. If they extend him, it will be as a 3b.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 18, 2022 17:24:43 GMT -5
I'm going to register my belief that I think it costs the Red Sox very little to have the worse infielder at shortstop and the better infielder at second base. If that keeps everyone happy then fine.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on Mar 18, 2022 17:25:00 GMT -5
Great. If we didn’t already have a SS who had a higher bWAR last year without obvious home-away Colorado splits. I just don’t want to have them sign Story and then say Devers is too expensive. Obviously signing him means Bloom is getting ready to cut another Sox HOFer loose in X. To be fair, one of them is getting cut loose anyways. Can we agree that Xander's days at SS are numbered? Yeah I guess he can soldier on until Mayer is ready, but those defensive ratings aren't very kind to him. So Xander will have to slide over to 3b which is fine if they don't resign Raffy. Only one of them can play 3b. You might argue well you can always DH Raffy and play Bogaerts at 3b down the road. I suppose you can but I can't see the Sox paying Devers the money he wants just to DH. If they extend him, it will be as a 3b. Still a better SS than Jeter was in his last 10 years.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:26:54 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 18, 2022 17:28:43 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop that you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Because he's a good placeholder until you have your young SS ready. I'm assuming it would be a 4 year deal, not a six - eight year deal that X would require or a 10 year deal that Devers will require.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 18, 2022 17:28:59 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop that you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Dude gave us half a hall of fame career and is currently playing on a crazy team friendly deal. He's earned the right to be a tiny bit petty and not get crapped on by Red Sox fans.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 18, 2022 17:29:08 GMT -5
To be fair, one of them is getting cut loose anyways. Can we agree that Xander's days at SS are numbered? Yeah I guess he can soldier on until Mayer is ready, but those defensive ratings aren't very kind to him. So Xander will have to slide over to 3b which is fine if they don't resign Raffy. Only one of them can play 3b. You might argue well you can always DH Raffy and play Bogaerts at 3b down the road. I suppose you can but I can't see the Sox paying Devers the money he wants just to DH. If they extend him, it will be as a 3b. Still a better SS than Jeter was in his last 10 years. So am I, but that's not saying much....
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Post by benzinger on Mar 18, 2022 17:29:18 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team? There’s a good chance that Xander would be even worse at 2B than he is at SS. Then again, there’s no evidence that Story can play 2B, either.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:31:12 GMT -5
The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop that you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Dude gave us half a hall of fame career and is currently playing on a crazy team friendly deal. He's earned the right to be a tiny bit petty and not get crapped on by Red Sox fans. It's not getting crapped on. It's logic and business.
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Post by benzinger on Mar 18, 2022 17:31:37 GMT -5
The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop that you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Dude gave us half a hall of fame career and is currently playing on a crazy team friendly deal. He's earned the right to be a tiny bit petty and not get crapped on by Red Sox fans. I like this sentiment, but it’s hard to feel this way anymore. The players have no loyalty to the teams, so the teams have no reason to be loyal to the players. As for the fans? We just root for the laundry.
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Post by incandenza on Mar 18, 2022 17:32:15 GMT -5
It's been clear for a while, I think, that Xander wasn't going to be a shortstop long-term for the Red Sox. If they extend him it'll be to play some other position. But really, I don't think they will extend him. Devers yes; Bogaerts no. The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Because he's still like a 5 WAR player at SS, and it doesn't make that much difference if the alternative is to move him to 2B, and who knows if he wouldn't suck worse at 2B, and there's no reason to screw with team chemistry, and injuries, etc., mean that things may well sort themselves out anyway, and there's something to be said for being loyal to a guy whose spent his whole excellent career in Boston, and he's not that bad a defensive SS anyway.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:35:04 GMT -5
The question then becomes: Why are the Sox going to accommodate a player to keep him at short stop when you don't view as a long term fit for the team? Because he's still like a 5 WAR player at SS, and it doesn't make that much difference if the alternative is to move him to 2B, and who knows if he wouldn't suck worse at 2B, and there's no reason to screw with team chemistry, and injuries, etc., mean that things may well sort themselves out anyway, and there's something to be said for being loyal to a guy whose spent his whole excellent career in Boston, and he's not that bad a defensive SS anyway.
Can't you say the same for Story, who could suck at second base since he never played a inning there in his career? The worse defensive player is playing a more important position. Just half backwards logic.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Mar 18, 2022 17:36:18 GMT -5
I could live with this. At least it would show that they are trying. Story should be right in his prime. He had a down year last year but he was top 15 for MVP during the previous 3 seasons. I’m hoping it ends up being 4yr/$100m with some option years, though. 6 years is too long. Rosenthal is a lot more credible than Heyman who was clearly throwing the Sox name into everything for clicks. If they can get Story that would shore up 2B. EDIT: just saw Rosenthal using Heyman as a source. Never mind.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:36:47 GMT -5
Dude gave us half a hall of fame career and is currently playing on a crazy team friendly deal. He's earned the right to be a tiny bit petty and not get crapped on by Red Sox fans. I like this sentiment, but it’s hard to feel this way anymore. The players have no loyalty to the teams, so the teams have no reason to be loyal to the players. As for the fans? We just root for the laundry. Yeah exactly, this isn't a reality TV show where you're trying to accommodate for personalities here. You're trying to put the best baseball team together.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:39:41 GMT -5
Bradford just tweeted this out. It doesn't make me feel great that the Sox are signing a player that looks like ominously he needs Tommy John surgery.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Mar 18, 2022 17:39:59 GMT -5
Dude gave us half a hall of fame career and is currently playing on a crazy team friendly deal. He's earned the right to be a tiny bit petty and not get crapped on by Red Sox fans. It's not getting crapped on. It's logic and business. So again you don't trade or let productive winners leave the team. Carlos Correa is not anywhere close to Xander in terms of on the field production. One is excellent every year and the other can't stay on the field.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 18, 2022 17:41:12 GMT -5
Everyone will agree that the team would be better off if Xander knocked on Cora's door and volunteered to switch positions, but he didn't. So you either live with that or you start a fight with your team's best player (who they probably still would like to extend if the price is right) over like two runs of efficiency.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:41:48 GMT -5
It's not getting crapped on. It's logic and business. So again you don't trade or let productive winners leave the team. Carlos Correa is not anywhere close to Xander in terms of on the field production. One is excellent every year and the other can't stay on the field. What does Correa have anything to do with the discussion? The Sox aren't in on Correa if they're in on Story.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 18, 2022 17:43:50 GMT -5
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Mar 18, 2022 17:43:59 GMT -5
So again you don't trade or let productive winners leave the team. Carlos Correa is not anywhere close to Xander in terms of on the field production. One is excellent every year and the other can't stay on the field. What does Correa have anything to do with the discussion? The Sox aren't in on Correa if they're in on Story. You've been advocating signing Correa and trading Xander to San Diego.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:46:45 GMT -5
What does Correa have anything to do with the discussion? The Sox aren't in on Correa if they're in on Story. You've been advocating signing Correa and trading Xander to San Diego. Well that's not happening. Doesn't matter what I think.
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Post by deversrakes on Mar 18, 2022 17:49:14 GMT -5
Everyone will agree that the team would be better off if Xander knocked on Cora's door and volunteered to switch positions, but he didn't. So you either live with that or you start a fight with your team's best player (who they probably still would like to extend if the price is right) over like two runs of efficiency. The problem is Story wants to play SS, too. It's been reported all off-season. I just find it ridiculous Xander is putting the team in this position.
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