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Patriots 2022 Offseason Thread
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 3, 2022 10:12:25 GMT -5
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 3, 2022 10:13:12 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on May 3, 2022 10:39:23 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on May 3, 2022 13:25:24 GMT -5
Weird he’s still on the roster
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 3, 2022 13:39:18 GMT -5
nesn.com/2022/05/get-to-know-patriots-2022-undrafted-free-agent-class-ahead-of-otas/Get To Know Patriots’ 2022 Undrafted Free Agent Class Ahead Of OTAs ......QB/WR/RB D’Eriq King, Miami Easily the most intriguing member of this UDFA group, King played quarterback at Miami and Houston but is trying to make it in the NFL as a multipositional offensive weapon. He had a pre-draft visit with the Patriots and a private workout with offensive assistant Joe Judge. At 5-foot-9, 196 pounds, King is drastically undersized by NFL QB standards, and the subpar 7.26-second three-cone drill he ran at his pro day raised questions about whether he boasts the short-area quickness to make it as a slot receiver. He did see substantial action at wideout early in his college career, totaling 61 catches for 520 yards and three touchdowns. As a passer, King posted a 63.1% career completion rate and generally took care of the ball, throwing 76 touchdown passes with 19 interceptions (never more than six in any season). Highly regarded for his leadership and intangibles, King was a team captain in each of his final three collegiate seasons. A shoulder injury wiped out his final nine games of 2021, and he also has a history of knee injuries. .....DL LaBryan Ray, Alabama The Patriots opted not to draft an Alabama product for the first time since 2018, but they did scoop one up post-draft. Ray arrived in Tuscaloosa as a five-star recruit, but a litany of injuries (foot, foot, ankle, elbow, groin, elbow, the last of which required surgery earlier this offseason) prevented him from becoming a consistently impactful player for the Crimson Tide. He started just nine games over his five collegiate seasons and posted modest stats as a senior, finishing with 11 tackles, three tackles for loss and one sack in 13 games (two starts). Ray must have received a positive review from Alabama head coach and longtime Bill Belichick friend Nick Saban, but he’ll obviously need to stay on the field to have a chance of cracking the Patriots’ roster. .....S Brenden Schooler, Texas Schooler bounced from Oregon to Arizona to Texas over the course of his six-year college career, playing safety, then wide receiver, then safety again. But his best path to a Patriots roster spot is through special teams. He played 774 snaps in the kicking game and tallied 21 special teams tackles in college, per The Athletic’s Dane Brugler. A former high school track star, Schooler has good size (6-foot-2, 203 pounds), speed (4.40-second 40 at his pro day), quickness (6.71-second three-cone drill, 4.10-second short shuttle) and explosiveness (37 1/2-inch vertical, 128-inch broad jump), and he was a first-team All-Pac-12 special teamer in two of his seasons at Oregon. With Matthew Slater entering his age-37 season and longtime kicking-game stalwarts Brandon Bolden and Brandon King signing elsewhere this offseason, there’s room for some new blood on the Patriots’ kick/punt coverage units.
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 3, 2022 13:42:46 GMT -5
nesn.com/2022/05/get-to-know-patriots-2022-undrafted-free-agent-class-ahead-of-otas/
Get To Know Patriots’ 2022 Undrafted Free Agent Class Ahead Of OTAs
.....OL Kody Russey, Houston Much like the Patriots’ 2022 draft class, this crop of UDFAs is stocked with older, highly experienced players. Russey is no different. He started an astounding 60 games at center over his five seasons at Louisiana Tech and one at Houston.
Russey is strong as hell — he pumped out 38 bench-press reps at his pro day at 6-foot-2, 301 pounds — and quick, too: His 4.52-second time in the short shuttle was just 0.02 seconds slower than that of Patriots first-rounder Cole Strange, who had one of the best combine workouts of any offensive lineman in this year’s draft class.
The Patriots don’t have much proven depth at any O-line position — including behind longtime starting center David Andrews — so there will be a number of roster spots up for grabs this spring and summer.
Russey was a college teammate of cornerback Marcus Jones, the Patriots’ third-round pick.
.....OL Liam Shanahan, LSU Shanahan would be one of the cooler stories of Patriots training camp if he makes a push for a roster spot. A native of Marlborough, Mass., he started his college career at Harvard, graduated, then transferred to LSU and started two seasons at center for the Tigers, playing alongside sixth-round Patriots draft pick Chasen Hines.
While at Harvard, Shanahan worked on the Fenway Park grounds crew — a gig that earned him a 2018 World Series ring.
“It ended up being my full-time job while I was at Harvard,” Shanahan said in a 2021 interview with the LSU athletics website. “My schedule basically was workout from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m., hop on the train or bus over to Fenway Park and work from 9 a.m. to, if there was a game, maybe midnight, then I’d get right back into workouts the next morning.”
Shanahan played 100 percent of offensive snaps for LSU in 2020 and every snap of the Tigers’ SEC schedule last season, per his LSU bio. He played right guard and right tackle at Harvard, where he started 30 consecutive games.
.....P Jake Julien, Eastern Michigan Julien averaged a school-record 44.0 yards per punt at Eastern Michigan, with 51 punts of 50-plus yards and two of 70-plus yards in 54 collegiate games. An Ontario native, he was drafted 31st overall in this year’s CFL draft before signing with the Patriots.
Adding Julien sets the stage for the Patriots’ first punter battle since 2019, when Jake Bailey unseated incumbent Ryan Allen. Bailey is just one year removed from a first-team All-Pro selection, but with his salary spiking to nearly $4 million this season (and all of it nonguaranteed) the Patriots could opt to go with the cheaper option if Julien proves
.....DE/LB DaMarcus Mitchell, Purdue Mitchell started off at Southwest Mississippi Community College before transferring to Purdue in 2020. He played as both a hand-in-the-dirt defensive end and a stand-up edge rusher for the Boilermakers, and given his size (6-foot-3, 265 pounds), he’ll probably be the latter in the NFL.
Mitchell didn’t put up especially impressive stats in the Big Ten (five sacks, 12 1/2 tackles for loss in 18 games) but closed out his college career with one of his most productive performances, tallying one sack, two tackles for loss and two forced fumbles in an overtime win over Tennessee in the Music City Bowl.
The Patriots have one Pro Bowl edge rusher in Matthew Judon but not much proven depth behind him, with Josh Uche, Ronnie Perkins and Anfernee Jennings rounding out their depth chart.
.....CB Devin Hafford, Tarleton State A 5-foot-10, 195-pound cornerback prospect, Hafford was the 2021 Defensive Player of the Year in the Western Athletic Conference, registering six inteceptions, seven pass breakups and two fumble recoveries. Another highly experienced player, he played in 56 games over six seasons at Tarleton State, an FCS program.
Hafford’s 4.50-second 40 wasn’t anything special for a cornerback, but his 38-inch vertical jump would have ranked fourth for his position at this year’s combine, and his 10-foot, 5-inch broad jump would have ranked sixth.
Though his path to a roster spot will be difficult after the Patriots also drafted two cornerbacks (Marcus Jones in Round 3 and Jack Jones in Round 4), New England does have a long history of finding undrafted gems at the position. Among them: Malcolm Butler, J.C. Jackson, Jonathan Jones, Kenny Moore and Randall Gay.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 4, 2022 12:38:02 GMT -5
Just want to point out that.
Onwenu was taken in the 6th round. Cooper Kupp 3rd rd and 8th WR drafted. Russell Wilson 3rd rd and 5th QB The Bears traded a ton to move up and take Trubisky when Mahomes was right there. Brady went 199... LOL The Pats have had better luck with undrafted FA cornerback prospects develop into good starters than actual drafted guys for the last 10 years.
This list could go on and on for pages but the point is that all those decisions are based off of peoples opinions and hence scouting reports on players. Which leads to picking guys and trading picks to get guys based on opinions of what they might do. So BB and the team have their own opinions to follow, along with their own opinions on the current roster. aka LBs and Edge players. Who knows how it all breaks down 2 years from now when we have the benefit of hindsight but I bet the Pats found some guys who will contribute.
That's the thing about the Strange pick in the first, the chances he is a bust are about zero. That's a good place to start in a draft, a guy that will be good and contribute from day 1. Not huge upside but as good as anyone in the first round that he contributes early and isn't a bust. The Pats aren't the only team holding the bag on a 1st rd WR or QB or Edge rusher that busted out, happens every year. A really good offensive line is a big key for the Pats to be successful.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on May 4, 2022 15:14:14 GMT -5
I think Schooler makes the team out of all those guys. Elite athlete. Can play ST while we figure out if he can impact other phases
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Post by rjp313jr on May 5, 2022 7:50:58 GMT -5
UMASS Thornton has a 33.25” wing span… is that good?
I’ve been coming around on this pick. They haven’t had a fast guy who can actually play fast (which he seems to on film) who is tall with a good catch radius since Randy Moss. It’s so different throwing deep to someone like that versus the midgets we always run out there. All those throws off finger tips or 3 feet too long are catches.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2022 8:11:20 GMT -5
If you wanted to play it safe why didn't we just pay Joe Thuney?
Guys like McCreary, Lloyd and Karlaftis were very safe first round picks. I don't worry any of them bust, it was just would you regret not taking player X. I really liked the idea of Karlaftis as a three down guy, given how Judon plays. Then putting McGrone behind Judon because he doesn't contain the edge. You help the running D and passing D at a premium position.
I would have said Schooler is the top guy to make it, yet then they signed Devin hafford tons of interceptions and PD, along with 24 on the bench. It wouldn't be a bad thing to role with Butler, Jones, Wade and three rookies. Mills you just got put on notice.
Talk about mining the lower levels, you got the best DL and DB.
They need to sign Flowers and Hicks would be a huge bonus.
Agholor likely needs to go right? Part of me likes the idea of him in the slot, yet he drops too many Balls to be a QBs safety net. You need to make Thornton at least the #4 WR. You can dream on five WR sets, yet with our RBs and TEs they won't do that much if at all. It just doesn't add up, you can't be a run first team and then have enough balls for everyone. I'm not okay red shirting Thornton and I don't like the idea of not getting Strong playing time either. Adding speed won't matter if they can't get on the field. You know they will try to get Jonnu more involved. Trying to figure out what they have planned makes my head hurt. Now I hear White might start year on the PUP list.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2022 8:19:04 GMT -5
UMASS Thornton has a 33.25” wing span… is that good? I’ve been coming around on this pick. They haven’t had a fast guy who can actually play fast (which he seems to on film) who is tall with a good catch radius since Randy Moss. It’s so different throwing deep to someone like that versus the midgets we always run out there. All those throws off finger tips or 3 feet too long are catches. You mean arm length? Yeah it's great, gives him a big catch radius. Yet it mostly vertical, I didn't see any crazy catches like with a Pierce, Austin or Shakir. Yet does a nice job going over guys to get the ball. It played very well in the red zone. Here's the biggest thing for me, his QB kinda sucked, the talent around him sucked. He was like Dotson, I mean look at his QB line against Mississippi in the bowl game, guy had 40 yards.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 5, 2022 8:44:47 GMT -5
UMASS Thornton has a 33.25” wing span… is that good? I’ve been coming around on this pick. They haven’t had a fast guy who can actually play fast (which he seems to on film) who is tall with a good catch radius since Randy Moss. It’s so different throwing deep to someone like that versus the midgets we always run out there. All those throws off finger tips or 3 feet too long are catches. You mean arm length? Yeah it's great, gives him a big catch radius. Yet it mostly vertical, I didn't see any crazy catches like with a Pierce, Austin or Shakir. Yet does a nice job going over guys to get the ball. It played very well in the red zone. Here's the biggest thing for me, his QB kinda sucked, the talent around him sucked. He was like Dotson, I mean look at his QB line against Mississippi in the bowl game, guy had 40 yards. Yes, I meant arm length. I don’t need him making any crazy diving catches or anything. Will just be nice to see our QB throwing a deep pass to someone with a catch radius versus these guys so small they can barely get their arms above their head or reach for a ball thrown out in front of them. Not to mention the separation ability.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on May 5, 2022 9:29:32 GMT -5
I don’t think Mills has been put on notice, I think they like his versatility a lot. Wouldn’t shock me if he replaces McCourty when McCourty retires
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2022 10:03:41 GMT -5
Mills playing outside CB the last 3 years he did it, 109.7, 107.8 and 111.4 QB rating, league average is in the 80s. He's better playing closer to the line like with the eagles in 2021, 36 blitzes that year resulting in an 82.0 QB rating. Yet this team is loaded with guys that can do that. It might be unlikely because you get very little salary savings. Yet if those three young CBs all look good, it's not crazy either. If you want to get faster, removing the slowest guy in our DB group makes sense.
I don't think taking a bad outside CB and moving him to FS is a great move. McCourty was a darn good outside CB. I'd see what Bledsoe is and go from there. Heck I'd give Schooler a shot at it as he plays special teams. He had 4 interceptions as a true freshman, then four years at two schools playing WR, then back to DB. Yet the PD numbers are horrible. Great athlete, yet a very unusual career path. Third college in there that he never played for, 6 years in College.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 5, 2022 10:14:10 GMT -5
You mean arm length? Yeah it's great, gives him a big catch radius. Yet it mostly vertical, I didn't see any crazy catches like with a Pierce, Austin or Shakir. Yet does a nice job going over guys to get the ball. It played very well in the red zone. Here's the biggest thing for me, his QB kinda sucked, the talent around him sucked. He was like Dotson, I mean look at his QB line against Mississippi in the bowl game, guy had 40 yards. Yes, I meant arm length. I don’t need him making any crazy diving catches or anything. Will just be nice to see our QB throwing a deep pass to someone with a catch radius versus these guys so small they can barely get their arms above their head or reach for a ball thrown out in front of them. Not to mention the separation ability. The one thing I wanted to see more of was him just running by guys and making huge plays. I had in my notes doesn't always play to time speed. After digging in more, it could just have been his QB sucked with a bad offensive line that didn't give him the time or ability needed. Hence why they used those slant routes were he killed teams. Thornton on one side, Parker on the other. How many teams have the DB to guard that? Opens up the middle and won't allow teams to stack the run. Then throw him in the Z with Parker at the X and let him run those slants. As long as he can quickly learn the offense, he should be good and taking him that high they better have checked that box.
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Post by rjw on May 5, 2022 13:53:30 GMT -5
Thornton on one side, Parker on the other. How many teams have the DB to guard that? Opens up the middle and won't allow teams to stack the run. Then throw him in the Z with Parker at the X and let him run those slants. Love the sound of that. Something is going to have to give with the WR depth chart though. Parker Meyers Agholor Bourne Montgomery Thornton Moving on from Agholor as many suggest gives you the double-benefit of freeing up some playing time for Thornton, and saving you some salary cap space. Montgomery is the wild card. Is he a WR? Is he a RB? In either spot he does crowd the gameday roster for either Thornton or Strong. Edit to add: I did not include Wilkerson, Nixon, Harry, Perry, or King in the depth chart figuring he is expected to be ahead of them and/or some of them will be gone anyway. He probably jumps past Montgomery in the depth chart, but Bill does love guys that have versatility.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 5, 2022 14:14:16 GMT -5
If you wanted to play it safe why didn't we just pay Joe Thuney? Guys like McCreary, Lloyd and Karlaftis were very safe first round picks. I don't worry any of them bust, it was just would you regret not taking player X. I really liked the idea of Karlaftis as a three down guy, given how Judon plays. Then putting McGrone behind Judon because he doesn't contain the edge. You help the running D and passing D at a premium position. I would have said Schooler is the top guy to make it, yet then they signed Devin hafford tons of interceptions and PD, along with 24 on the bench. It wouldn't be a bad thing to role with Butler, Jones, Wade and three rookies. Mills you just got put on notice. Talk about mining the lower levels, you got the best DL and DB. They need to sign Flowers and Hicks would be a huge bonus. Agholor likely needs to go right? Part of me likes the idea of him in the slot, yet he drops too many Balls to be a QBs safety net. You need to make Thornton at least the #4 WR. You can dream on five WR sets, yet with our RBs and TEs they won't do that much if at all. It just doesn't add up, you can't be a run first team and then have enough balls for everyone. I'm not okay red shirting Thornton and I don't like the idea of not getting Strong playing time either. Adding speed won't matter if they can't get on the field. You know they will try to get Jonnu more involved. Trying to figure out what they have planned makes my head hurt. Now I hear White might start year on the PUP list. The real simple answer to not keeping Thuney is the money. Which is also the reason for trading Mason. If the guard position is so easy to fill and lacks value then how can BB justify paying 18 million for the 2 guard spots? Pretty simple really. Do you think the Bears thought Trubinsky was going to bust when they gave up picks to move up one spot to get him? The list of guys who bust is long and the safest 1st rd picks are Oline. And as far as taking shots on guys with big upside that is what you have in the next 4 picks with all that speed. BTW the more I see of Thornton the more I like his potential, if he had a good QB throwing him the ball his scouting report might have been a lot different.
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 5, 2022 16:03:28 GMT -5
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Post by dcb26 on May 5, 2022 17:56:18 GMT -5
After digging in more, it could just have been his QB sucked with a bad offensive line that didn't give him the time or ability needed. Hence why they used those slant routes were he killed teams. Thornton on one side, Parker on the other. How many teams have the DB to guard that? Opens up the middle and won't allow teams to stack the run. Then throw him in the Z with Parker at the X and let him run those slants. As long as he can quickly learn the offense, he should be good and taking him that high they better have checked that box. That was one of my thoughts after watching video of Thornton, that he consistently outran the QB's arm. Can't say for sure that's all on the QB, but Thornton was routinely having to slow down or outright stop and wait for the ball to come to him. It wasn't just on deep throws either, even those slant routes he was regularly having to reach back and grab passes that were behind him - which I see as a positive both in terms of having the catch radius to bring in those passes, and in that his speed seems to play across the middle of the field as well as down the sideline.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2022 6:40:39 GMT -5
If you wanted to play it safe why didn't we just pay Joe Thuney? Guys like McCreary, Lloyd and Karlaftis were very safe first round picks. I don't worry any of them bust, it was just would you regret not taking player X. I really liked the idea of Karlaftis as a three down guy, given how Judon plays. Then putting McGrone behind Judon because he doesn't contain the edge. You help the running D and passing D at a premium position. I would have said Schooler is the top guy to make it, yet then they signed Devin hafford tons of interceptions and PD, along with 24 on the bench. It wouldn't be a bad thing to role with Butler, Jones, Wade and three rookies. Mills you just got put on notice. Talk about mining the lower levels, you got the best DL and DB. They need to sign Flowers and Hicks would be a huge bonus. Agholor likely needs to go right? Part of me likes the idea of him in the slot, yet he drops too many Balls to be a QBs safety net. You need to make Thornton at least the #4 WR. You can dream on five WR sets, yet with our RBs and TEs they won't do that much if at all. It just doesn't add up, you can't be a run first team and then have enough balls for everyone. I'm not okay red shirting Thornton and I don't like the idea of not getting Strong playing time either. Adding speed won't matter if they can't get on the field. You know they will try to get Jonnu more involved. Trying to figure out what they have planned makes my head hurt. Now I hear White might start year on the PUP list. The real simple answer to not keeping Thuney is the money. Which is also the reason for trading Mason. If the guard position is so easy to fill and lacks value then how can BB justify paying 18 million for the 2 guard spots? Pretty simple really. Do you think the Bears thought Trubinsky was going to bust when they gave up picks to move up one spot to get him? The list of guys who bust is long and the safest 1st rd picks are Oline. And as far as taking shots on guys with big upside that is what you have in the next 4 picks with all that speed. BTW the more I see of Thornton the more I like his potential, if he had a good QB throwing him the ball his scouting report might have been a lot different. You can't make that case when Bill uses a first round pick on a OG for the second time. He's paid Mankins, he's paid Shaq Mason. You had all the money last year and I'd argue Mason got traded more so because Onwenu is way too good to ride the bench, the money being a bonus. First round picks give you the most excess value, so by taking an OG in the first Bill is saying it's as important as any position. So if you feel that way I would have paid Thuney If you have to take an OG so you don't pick a bust, you need to change things. Mitch Trubisky is the worst example ever. He's a one year College starter at QB. Likely the highest bust rate you could pick and the Bears were stupid to trade up for him. Yet at the same time he's also not a complete bust either. I'm actually very interested to see what he does on the Steelers. I just don’t get your point with Mitch Trubisky. Did you not see anyone available that was a safe pick?
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Post by voiceofreason on May 6, 2022 7:35:06 GMT -5
I am just trying to look at it from the Pats point of view in why they did what they did in the draft. I always put myself in someone elses shoes when trying to figure something out that doesn't make sense to me upfront and those thoughts are my best guess as to what they were thinking. Now the Pats have,"what they consider", to be good guard play from younger less costly players.
As for other players, one guy I was high on that I think has very little chance of being a bust is Deven Lloyd who I think is going to be very good. As far as I am concerned after following the draft closely for 40 years you never really know who is going to be a bust. Do you remember Tony Mandarich? And every year how many 1st rd WR picks end up being nothing? QBs, Wrs and edge rushers all seem kind of risky. To me the Pats took shots on guys in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds while going with a sure thing in the first. But hey the fact is I don't disagree with you on perceived value and all, I am just trying to look at it and justify it from the Pats POV. I would have been happier with the top CB or LLoyd at 21 in all honesty. And I actually thought they would go OT and build some depth there with Wynn being average and under contract for 1 season plus Brown is signed short term also. I think they will go into next yrs draft needing a OT.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 6, 2022 9:14:29 GMT -5
Years back reports Patriots loved Dan Feeney and Chargers just picked him right before we were going to. Played mostly Left OG, with some center. He signed a one year 3 million deal to be a backup on the Jets. You could have signed him for 4 years for less than Strange. Likely not as good, yet a nice good solid player like Karras and he's only 27.
My safe picks were McCreary, Lloyd and Karlaftis. I likely take Karlaftis, he sets the edge against the run and gets after the QB with power and a non stop motor. He can play all three downs, so teams can't take advantage of part time players like Uche, only good against the pass. You likely get a bunch of A+ grades for the pick and the class overall is going to look much better.
Wanna get crazy, no trade for a next year pick cost you a chance at Carter, Uwazurike and Winfrey DT, Tindall, Chenal and Smith LB, Bryant and Mathis CB. All off the board by the time you pick Jack Jones.
Zappe; Austin, Shakir and Philips WR, Booker, Ogbonnia and Ridgeway DT, McCollum CB, Clarke and Beavers LB and Araiza punter
Kelvin Harris; Malcolm Rodriguez maybe the best value pick in the entire draft.
Now I'm using hindsight, so this isn’t completely fair
Yet here we go;
Karlaftis
Thornton
Jones
No trade Bryant or Mathis, I'd pick Mathis
Strong
Austin, Shakir or Philips, I'd pick Shakir
Malcolm Rodriguez
Roberts
Hines
Take Coan or Purdy, I'd take Jack Coan
That likely gets them an A- or B+ grade Upgrades your DL, gets you a big athletic CB who's just as pro ready a Jack Jones, gives you Shakir the perfect gadget player and keeps him from the Bills, plus gives you a day one ready LB who has been one of the best in College football for the last few years and he's fast at 4.52 40, he's just 5'11" yet 235 and strong as an Ox
Yet what do I know, we'll see what happens
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Post by nuttyredsox on May 6, 2022 9:24:36 GMT -5
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on May 6, 2022 10:04:23 GMT -5
I gotta be honest idc what analysts give us for a draft grade. They gave us A’s for 2019 lol
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Post by texs31 on May 6, 2022 10:17:19 GMT -5
I gotta be honest idc what analysts give us for a draft grade. They gave us A’s for 2019 lol Again, you are falling unto the trap of evaluating the process based on the result. Think of it this way, if the coach and GM were different people and the GM drafted all the right players but the coach butchered their development. Still a bad draft? There were better decisions to be made at the top but the value they got was fantastic. What happened subsequently is a different story. That's why we can actually like the players they drafted this year but hate how they went about doing it.
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