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Patriots 2022 Offseason Thread
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Post by texs31 on Aug 16, 2022 16:59:43 GMT -5
JoeJuan and Malcolm Butler to IR. Jake Julien released.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2022 21:03:23 GMT -5
Helps roster crunch and reports on Jones, Jones and Wade are very good. Was just hoping it was Mills frankly.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2022 21:24:10 GMT -5
Helps roster crunch and reports on Jones, Jones and Wade are very good. Was just hoping it was Mills frankly. Reports on Mills have been good from what I’ve seen
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2022 6:28:36 GMT -5
They have to find a way to keep Tre Nixon. His play, scouting reports and overall athletic ability should be enough. Bill saying he's the hardest worker on the team just seals the deal for me. It's just shaping up to be rough when it comes to doing 53 projections. Going to be a very interesting cut-down period. Guys like Robert's and Ray, the DBs, WR, heck even OL. I think one of Agholor/Meyers is gone before Week 1. Every report on Agholor is about how smart of a player he is; I don’t see Bill moving on from him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 18, 2022 6:30:20 GMT -5
I’ve been staying quiet trying to give it time, but these reports on the offense are atrocious. Trading Mason is going to go down as a disaster. Best way to ruin a young QB is to screw up his offensive line and it appears they’ve done just that. Combined with no offensive coordinator, this could turn into something atrocious.
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cdj
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Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2022 8:19:15 GMT -5
I think going with Patricia as the play caller may be a botch, I’m not worried about the offensive line play though. The reports I’ve seen on them have the issues more with run blocking than pass blocking, and that makes sense seeing as how they’re adding a bunch of zone runs to the playbook and those take reps to get right
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 10:06:14 GMT -5
Helps roster crunch and reports on Jones, Jones and Wade are very good. Was just hoping it was Mills frankly. Reports on Mills have been good from what I’ve seen I take most reports in training camp with a grain of salt. Take McGrone after his first game in about two years. Reports ranged from Patriots haven't had an athletic LB like that in years to he's not making the team. Mills wasn't good last year and I've heard positive reviews on all the young guys, haven't heard much negatives either. So yeah I was hoping Butler stepped up and Mills was gone, that's not happening now.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2022 10:24:11 GMT -5
Reports on Mills have been good from what I’ve seen I take most reports in training camp with a grain of salt. Take McGrone after his first game in about two years. Reports ranged from Patriots haven't had an athletic LB like that in years to he's not making the team. Mills wasn't good last year and I've heard positive reviews on all the young guys, haven't heard much negatives either. So yeah I was hoping Butler stepped up and Mills was gone, that's not happening now. I thought Mills was fine last year personally
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 10:29:12 GMT -5
I’ve been staying quiet trying to give it time, but these reports on the offense are atrocious. Trading Mason is going to go down as a disaster. Best way to ruin a young QB is to screw up his offensive line and it appears they’ve done just that. Combined with no offensive coordinator, this could turn into something atrocious. I want to know why they moved Wynn to RT. Talk about making things more complicated and him with Onwenu wasn't good on the left side last year. Now you have them on the right side, both have limited experience there. It's like that's do a new offense with new coaches and for the fun of it, let's switch our OTs. At the same time reports are all over the place depending on who you listen to. Seem people just keep slamming them, others talking about seeing improvements and there getting better. So much crap about the coaches. I truly believe people are to a certain extent looking for issues and comparing training camp to last regular season, not last years training camp. A year ago we are debating between Newton and Jones, Mac was running a crazy basic short yardage offense. They are now working on being more vertical and the last report I saw had Jones with a higher completion percentage than this time last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 10:33:15 GMT -5
I take most reports in training camp with a grain of salt. Take McGrone after his first game in about two years. Reports ranged from Patriots haven't had an athletic LB like that in years to he's not making the team. Mills wasn't good last year and I've heard positive reviews on all the young guys, haven't heard much negatives either. So yeah I was hoping Butler stepped up and Mills was gone, that's not happening now. I thought Mills was fine last year personally 111.3 QB rating and 7 TDs allowed? He only looked good because there was no depth behind him and he was much better than Williams who just sucks. He gave up a lot of big plays, the QB rating and TDs are career worse numbers for him.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,200
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Post by cdj on Aug 18, 2022 11:24:37 GMT -5
I thought Mills was fine last year personally 111.3 QB rating and 7 TDs allowed? He only looked good because there was no depth behind him and he was much better than Williams who just sucks. He gave up a lot of big plays, the QB rating and TDs are career worse numbers for him. I thought he rounded into form late in the season iirc, it’s not uncommon for defensive backs to struggle when they first get here. Gilmore did. He’s obviously not an ideal #1 outside CB but I think if Jack Jones is playing as well as they say they’ve got enough to survive out there with Mills, Jones, Jones, Jones, Wade, and Mitchell It also wouldn’t shock me if one of those guys outplays Mills and ends up being the true “#1” corner
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 14:26:53 GMT -5
111.3 QB rating and 7 TDs allowed? He only looked good because there was no depth behind him and he was much better than Williams who just sucks. He gave up a lot of big plays, the QB rating and TDs are career worse numbers for him. I thought he rounded into form late in the season iirc, it’s not uncommon for defensive backs to struggle when they first get here. Gilmore did. He’s obviously not an ideal #1 outside CB but I think if Jack Jones is playing as well as they say they’ve got enough to survive out there with Mills, Jones, Jones, Jones, Wade, and Mitchell It also wouldn’t shock me if one of those guys outplays Mills and ends up being the true “#1” corner The troubling part for me is how yards per target effects him. Close to the line he's really good, the farther out the targets go the worse he gets. You get to 10 yards plus per target and he's one of the worst DBs in football. Yet that's your outside #1 CB? You see improvement late in season, which he was better because we played teams with short area passing attacks like the Jags and Dolphins. That's his game and why Eagles used him as a hybrid type player.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2022 14:48:24 GMT -5
I take with a grain of salt the individual player grades. What is the expertise of the grader (my son-in-law was offered a job at one of those places and he has zero bona fides)?
I'm not saying they have no value. For instance, Malcolm Butler, who did not play in the Super Bowl for whatever reason, had given up a passer rating over 100 that year. All year I was hoping someone (Rowe) would climb over him on the depth chart.
As to Mills, other than the Cowboy game where he likely got credited with other teammates mistakes, I thought he was solid in coverage and tackling. A net plus. If I recall right, Pats pass D was 2nd in passer rating and team was 2nd in points allowed. Secondary as a unit was elite.
I'm happy he's back. I'm happy he's doing well in camp. I'm also looking forward to seeing the Jones Boys in action, Marcus especially.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 15:06:13 GMT -5
I take with a grain of salt the individual player grades. What is the expertise of the grader (my son-in-law was offered a job at one of those places and he has zero bona fides)? I'm not saying they have no value. For instance, Malcolm Butler, who did not play in the Super Bowl for whatever reason, had given up a passer rating over 100 that year. All year I was hoping someone (Rowe) would climb over him on the depth chart. As to Mills, other than the Cowboy game where he likely got credited with other teammates mistakes, I thought he was solid in coverage and tackling. A net plus. If I recall right, Pats pass D was 2nd in passer rating and team was 2nd in points allowed. Secondary as a unit was elite. I'm happy he's back. I'm happy he's doing well in camp. I'm also looking forward to seeing the Jones Boys in action, Marcus especially. I'm not using player grades, just targets, receptions, yards and TDs, calculate it like you do a QB. Zero human grading. Your thinking of PFF, which has a human grade every play. Football Refrence only has advanced stats back to 2018, Butlers last season was 2017 here, so I have no clue what they were. Where did you get over a 100 from?
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Post by texs31 on Aug 18, 2022 16:45:00 GMT -5
I’ve been staying quiet trying to give it time, but these reports on the offense are atrocious. Trading Mason is going to go down as a disaster. Best way to ruin a young QB is to screw up his offensive line and it appears they’ve done just that. Combined with no offensive coordinator, this could turn into something atrocious. I want to know why they moved Wynn to RT. Talk about making things more complicated and him with Onwenu wasn't good on the left side last year. Now you have them on the right side, both have limited experience there. It's like that's do a new offense with new coaches and for the fun of it, let's switch our OTs. At the same time reports are all over the place depending on who you listen to. Seem people just keep slamming them, others talking about seeing improvements and there getting better. So much crap about the coaches. I truly believe people are to a certain extent looking for issues and comparing training camp to last regular season, not last years training camp. A year ago we are debating between Newton and Jones, Mac was running a crazy basic short yardage offense. They are now working on being more vertical and the last report I saw had Jones with a higher completion percentage than this time last year. Had read somewhere that they might want a monster and an athlete on either side. Can't remember who wrote it (and, it's VERY possible they were just speculating bc that was the result). I'm more inclined to think it has something to do with his roster status (pending FA, offseason no show, etc). Now that he's injured, again, it's worked out in that Brown has been getting all his reps at LT which could prove necessary one way or another.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2022 17:00:16 GMT -5
I want to know why they moved Wynn to RT. Talk about making things more complicated and him with Onwenu wasn't good on the left side last year. Now you have them on the right side, both have limited experience there. It's like that's do a new offense with new coaches and for the fun of it, let's switch our OTs. At the same time reports are all over the place depending on who you listen to. Seem people just keep slamming them, others talking about seeing improvements and there getting better. So much crap about the coaches. I truly believe people are to a certain extent looking for issues and comparing training camp to last regular season, not last years training camp. A year ago we are debating between Newton and Jones, Mac was running a crazy basic short yardage offense. They are now working on being more vertical and the last report I saw had Jones with a higher completion percentage than this time last year. Had read somewhere that they might want a monster and an athlete on either side. Can't remember who wrote it (and, it's VERY possible they were just speculating bc that was the result). I'm more inclined to think it has something to do with his roster status (pending FA, offseason no show, etc). Now that he's injured, again, it's worked out in that Brown has been getting all his reps at LT which could prove necessary one way or another. Yeah I'll agree with Brown is locked down and Wynn is a to be free agent for $100 please.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 19, 2022 8:42:32 GMT -5
I think going with Patricia as the play caller may be a botch, I’m not worried about the offensive line play though. The reports I’ve seen on them have the issues more with run blocking than pass blocking, and that makes sense seeing as how they’re adding a bunch of zone runs to the playbook and those take reps to get right I don’t know man, I see a lot of sacks on Mac Jones
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 19, 2022 11:52:11 GMT -5
I take with a grain of salt the individual player grades. What is the expertise of the grader (my son-in-law was offered a job at one of those places and he has zero bona fides)? I'm not saying they have no value. For instance, Malcolm Butler, who did not play in the Super Bowl for whatever reason, had given up a passer rating over 100 that year. All year I was hoping someone (Rowe) would climb over him on the depth chart. As to Mills, other than the Cowboy game where he likely got credited with other teammates mistakes, I thought he was solid in coverage and tackling. A net plus. If I recall right, Pats pass D was 2nd in passer rating and team was 2nd in points allowed. Secondary as a unit was elite. I'm happy he's back. I'm happy he's doing well in camp. I'm also looking forward to seeing the Jones Boys in action, Marcus especially. I'm not using player grades, just targets, receptions, yards and TDs, calculate it like you do a QB. Zero human grading. Your thinking of PFF, which has a human grade every play. Football Refrence only has advanced stats back to 2018, Butlers last season was 2017 here, so I have no clue what they were. Where did you get over a 100 from? Well someone has to watch the film and decide who was the defender, which can be especially tricky if one doesn't know what defense is being played. Different teams have different rules, even in similar schemes. There was a post by one of these outfits on Twitter last year (maybe 2020) saying Tre'Davious White hadn't yet given up a TD pass for the year, and thus his passer rating against was such and such, best in the league, etc., when I'd seen him, a week or two earlier, get beat for a double move for a TD with a single high safety. Obviously they put the TD, and yardage, on the safety. Maybe that's where it belongs (I wouldn't think so). I suppose only the players involved, and their coaches, ultimately know for sure. A similar thing happened last year in the Cowboy /Pats game with KB double-moving Diggs and going for 70+ and a TD. Some put that on the safety. Some said the CB. Who's right? Who knows? As to Malcolm, I can only say: I'm not making it up; his passer rating against was reported by one of the regular beat crew; it matched what my eyes saw -- ie, he hadn't been very good. Again, I'm not saying these ratings are without benefit. I just caution giving too much, or absolute, weight to them.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 19, 2022 12:20:20 GMT -5
Panthers tonight. I really don’t know how this season will play out. BB could be a wizard or they ‘ll say he is losing it.
If he fails how much longer will Kraft back him? I think he pulls in 25million a year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2022 12:25:01 GMT -5
I'm not using player grades, just targets, receptions, yards and TDs, calculate it like you do a QB. Zero human grading. Your thinking of PFF, which has a human grade every play. Football Refrence only has advanced stats back to 2018, Butlers last season was 2017 here, so I have no clue what they were. Where did you get over a 100 from? Well someone has to watch the film and decide who was the defender, which can be especially tricky if one doesn't know what defense is being played. Different teams have different rules, even in similar schemes. There was a post by one of these outfits on Twitter last year (maybe 2020) saying Tre'Davious White hadn't yet given up a TD pass for the year, and thus his passer rating against was such and such, best in the league, etc., when I'd seen him, a week or two earlier, get beat for a double move for a TD with a single high safety. Obviously they put the TD, and yardage, on the safety. Maybe that's where it belongs (I wouldn't think so). I suppose only the players involved, and their coaches, ultimately know for sure. A similar thing happened last year in the Cowboy /Pats game with KB double-moving Diggs and going for 70+ and a TD. Some put that on the safety. Some said the CB. Who's right? Who knows? As to Malcolm, I can only say: I'm not making it up; his passer rating against was reported by one of the regular beat crew; it matched what my eyes saw -- ie, he hadn't been very good. Again, I'm not saying these ratings are without benefit. I just caution giving too much, or absolute, weight to them. I think the rule is closest defender when catch is made. So you point out some good times when it helped a CB and hurt a safety. Single high safety coverage isn't zone, so it should have been on White. Gets harder if the safety coverage was different because in zone your job could be to let him release deep and have the safety pick him up. So it's not perfect, yet those are fairly rare plays no? They also helped the CBs numbers, not made them worse. LIke you said the numbers match the eye test, I never remember Butler getting destroyed like Mills did last year. Yet that could just be my memory, I certainly don't remember every play. Mills four years of advanced stats he's been rather bad at CB each year, only 2021 when he played a hybrid role was he not horrible. If Bill turns him into a good #1 CB, it will just further show how he's the best coach ever.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 19, 2022 13:53:46 GMT -5
Well someone has to watch the film and decide who was the defender, which can be especially tricky if one doesn't know what defense is being played. Different teams have different rules, even in similar schemes. There was a post by one of these outfits on Twitter last year (maybe 2020) saying Tre'Davious White hadn't yet given up a TD pass for the year, and thus his passer rating against was such and such, best in the league, etc., when I'd seen him, a week or two earlier, get beat for a double move for a TD with a single high safety. Obviously they put the TD, and yardage, on the safety. Maybe that's where it belongs (I wouldn't think so). I suppose only the players involved, and their coaches, ultimately know for sure. A similar thing happened last year in the Cowboy /Pats game with KB double-moving Diggs and going for 70+ and a TD. Some put that on the safety. Some said the CB. Who's right? Who knows? As to Malcolm, I can only say: I'm not making it up; his passer rating against was reported by one of the regular beat crew; it matched what my eyes saw -- ie, he hadn't been very good. Again, I'm not saying these ratings are without benefit. I just caution giving too much, or absolute, weight to them. I think the rule is closest defender when catch is made. So you point out some good times when it helped a CB and hurt a safety. Single high safety coverage isn't zone, so it should have been on White. Gets harder if the safety coverage was different because in zone your job could be to let him release deep and have the safety pick him up. So it's not perfect, yet those are fairly rare plays no? They also helped the CBs numbers, not made them worse. LIke you said the numbers match the eye test, I never remember Butler getting destroyed like Mills did last year. Yet that could just be my memory, I certainly don't remember every play. Mills four years of advanced stats he's been rather bad at CB each year, only 2021 when he played a hybrid role was he not horrible. If Bill turns him into a good #1 CB, it will just further show how he's the best coach ever.On this final point we can fully agree. Although I suspect Bill might not -- #1 corners and all that.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 20, 2022 9:34:27 GMT -5
I’m trying not to get to pumped up for this defense but I’m liking almost loving what I see so far. Preseason or not you can kind of see something happening. They totally made over the linebackers.
That drive with Nelson with the big catch. At least saved the offense. That kid Montgomery could be a nice weapon. I think we were too run heavy last season for whatever reason.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 20, 2022 11:34:39 GMT -5
Thornton has fractured his clavicle.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,799
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Post by mobaz on Aug 21, 2022 9:10:22 GMT -5
Thornton has fractured his clavicle. Glad we have all that WR depth I was ready to shed. So now we know Thorton will trend toward the "promising talent but perpetually injured" bucket of Patriots WR picks, as opposed to the other option, "shows flashes but underperforming" bucket Kidding. Mostly.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 21, 2022 10:08:17 GMT -5
Seen around 8 weeks, what do they do? Doesn't help keep depth when he needs to make the 53 then go on IR to come back, unless they do it very well like once again with guys like Hoyer.
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