SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
4/8-4/11 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 9, 2013 12:29:59 GMT -5
Mr. Dunne, I don't disagree with anything you said about Duquette and filling out the 40-man or 25-man rosters. We have to assume he's gotten better (how could he get worse) since then. The news media is also much more savvy about it now, though any GM learning from the media is in trouble. His other HUGE move was trading Heart-attack Slocumb for Lowe and Varitek. And it's tough to say he did so poorly between 99 and 02 when the team we won with in 04 was largely his including 3/5 of the rotation, plus Nomar, ManRam, Youk, Damon, Nixon, Daubauch, and Tek. Totally whiffed on the Lowe/Varitek deal, you're right. Those 3/5 of the rotation there in '04 were there before '99. Nixon was drafted by Lou Gorman. Daubach played in only 30 games in '04, and Theo had brought him back - he'd played for the White Sox in '03. The fact that many of the stars on the '04 team were put there by Duquette, but they didn't win until after he was gone sort of fits inside my overall narrative - he was good at building the top of the roster, but had no idea how to finish it.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Apr 9, 2013 12:30:54 GMT -5
Nava may be more intelligent that some people might assume, given that it took him so long to get to mlb. He got into Santa Clara without a baseball scholarship. And he clearly has made the most of his tools.
Many here underestimated him but he was putting up incredible OBP numbers in A and AA ball. What he didn't have was the conventional pedigree and the pop. He's made himself a good ball player and his intangibles could well have had an impact on that. Clean living, intelligent young man whose focused on the task at hand ( as well as Erin Andrews of course ).
|
|
danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
|
Post by danr on Apr 9, 2013 12:59:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 17:06:02 GMT -5
Nava may be more intelligent that some people might assume, given that it took him so long to get to mlb. He got into Santa Clara without a baseball scholarship. And he clearly has made the most of his tools. Many here underestimated him but he was putting up incredible OBP numbers in A and AA ball. What he didn't have was the conventional pedigree and the pop. He's made himself a good ball player and his intangibles could well have had an impact on that. Clean living, intelligent young man whose focused on the task at hand ( as well as Erin Andrews of course ). Wait, I thought guys who had breakouts later in their career than we normally expect are obvious steroid users. Or is that only when they play for other teams?
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 17:13:28 GMT -5
I don't know what to make of the Orioles. They went 16-2 in extra inning games last year, which doesn't even seem possible. Duquette basically stood pat on them, but I'm willing to believe that it's because he's still building for 2015 and wasn't going to let a flukishly good 2012 season get him off the path. Their Pythagorean record was 82-80 last year, and that's about where I feel like they are. It sounds like you know exactly what to make of them. They were a .500 team that happened to win 16 out of 18 coin flips. Not much mystery too it.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Apr 9, 2013 17:20:19 GMT -5
Orioles were a .500 team who had absurdly good luck in coin flip games. It's a team that added little to nothing this offseason, and the only real place where they might get better is with guys like Machado. But unless their luck is similar to last year, I really don't see them competing. The only reason they were even in the race last year was there +15 record in 1 run games.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Apr 9, 2013 17:40:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the reference. I have been one of the Nava doubters...thinking of him as a AAAA player....a good sub, .240 hitter with little power.....with average fielding ability, a fair arm, a streaky hitter ....fair from the left side but a liability from the right. To me his bat always appears about 2-3 inches too long and slows his swing. BUT, I love his plate discipline (my favorite player quality). In short I saw him as a self-made, over-achieving ball-player maxing his abilities by dint of will. ...sort of a Pedroia light. As I have watched him early on this season, especially from the right side, I wondered if he had spent extra time/thought in trying to improve that generally accepted short-coming. It appears that he has done so. I hope that he enjoys great success in beating the odds in this so highly competitive game.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
|
Post by wcp3 on Apr 9, 2013 18:45:06 GMT -5
Why exactly do the Red Sox have the day off today? The people who run baseball are idiots.
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 9, 2013 18:49:49 GMT -5
They were going to play 162 straight, but they decided against it this year.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Apr 9, 2013 18:50:30 GMT -5
Why exactly do the Red Sox have the day off today? The people who run baseball are idiots. Because clearly the Sox and O's needed an off day to check out Boston It would have made MUCH more sense to just have the offday after the O's series, considering their next off day isn't until the 29th. So rather than play 8 games, off day, 17 games, they play 6 games, off day, 19 games. Baltimore goes right to NY so at worst an off day would have been decent to them. Makes no sense
|
|
|
Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Apr 9, 2013 19:05:22 GMT -5
It's the shemales NCAA championship tonight.
You can't go head to dead with that!
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2013 19:29:33 GMT -5
Nava is a nice player and a good story. I probably wouldn't want him starting for the Red sox over a full season but I wouldn't bet against him putting together a decent season in that role should it happen.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Apr 9, 2013 19:32:47 GMT -5
Most GMs can be looked at as having failures, especially in the years leading up to their departure. If the Dodgers and BC didn't bail out the Sox with that trade, this team could've been in a bad spot for years because of decisions made on Theo's watch. Place blame on whoever you want, but its still his watch.
|
|
|
Post by blumj on Apr 9, 2013 20:07:55 GMT -5
Why exactly do the Red Sox have the day off today? The people who run baseball are idiots. Same reason they have a day off after the first opening day, so that people who bought tickets to the opener still get to go to the opener if it's rained out, without simultaneously creating a giant mess for all the people who bought tickets to game 2.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2013 20:31:13 GMT -5
Totally whiffed on the Lowe/Varitek deal, you're right. Those 3/5 of the rotation there in '04 were there before '99. Nixon was drafted by Lou Gorman. Daubach played in only 30 games in '04, and Theo had brought him back - he'd played for the White Sox in '03. The fact that many of the stars on the '04 team were put there by Duquette, but they didn't win until after he was gone sort of fits inside my overall narrative - he was good at building the top of the roster, but had no idea how to finish it. Exactly. Theo brought in Ortiz, Bellhorn, Mueller, Millar, Arroyo, and Foulke via free agency and waivers (Millar, Arroyo) . All of these guys were HUGE acquisitions that made big impacts on the 2004 team, regular season and play-offs. For trades, Theo brought in Schilling, Roberts, and Cabrera. Breaking down the Schilling trade, the well-regarded prospects used to get him never really lived up to their potential. (Lyon, Fossum, Jorge De La Rosa) Even though it meant trading Garciaparra to get Cabrera, many didn't know it at the time, but Nomar was basically done from then on, being injury plagued until he retired after 2008. He was done at SS and moved to 3B after 2004 where he had one more good year in LA in 2006. He was past him prime at the time of the trade. This trade turned out very well because even though Cabrera didn't return to the Sox in 2005, his draft pick compensation landed them Ellsbury. Dave Roberts was acquired by a prospect who didn't even make the major leagues. The biggest contribution he made to the '04 team was the stolen base in the 9th inning of Game 4 of the ALCS. So all three of these trades worked out very well for the Red Sox, helping them win the World Series. My point is that Theo made some brilliant moves in the beginning to top of the roster, from smart FA signings to good trades. He made his share of moves that were not great for the Sox later, but he played a huge role in making the '04 team champs.
|
|
wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,827
|
Post by wcp3 on Apr 9, 2013 23:56:07 GMT -5
It's the shemales NCAA championship tonight. You can't go head to dead with that! HUSKIES!!!
|
|
|
Post by elguapo on Apr 10, 2013 9:42:15 GMT -5
Nava is a nice player and a good story. I probably wouldn't want him starting for the Red sox over a full season but I wouldn't bet against him putting together a decent season in that role should it happen. A decent starter making league minimum? That's exactly the kind of complementary player that makes a MLB roster work, even in a big market.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 10, 2013 10:50:20 GMT -5
Well said. I've mentioned this before. Cherrington's style seems to be all about options - giving yourself as many as possible - and value - acknowledging it when it's right there in front of you. I don't think it's an accident that Victor Rodriquez is the assistant hitting coach for the Sox, and that he also served as the Sox' minor league hitting coordinator, someone who's watched Nava and others in the system for a long time.
The season's still young, and this is just off the top of my head: this staff seems as well-organized as last years was poorly organized. There seems to be purpose on both the pitching and hitting sides for these coaches. That's a good thing.
|
|
dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
|
Post by dd on Apr 10, 2013 11:07:23 GMT -5
Why exactly do the Red Sox have the day off today? The people who run baseball are idiots. No other teams do this and the Red Sox have never done it before this year, so the idiot must be BC!
|
|
|
Post by bjb406 on Apr 10, 2013 11:51:36 GMT -5
apparently aceves is pitching Thursday. Kill me now, that is so stupid. We would probably be better off with any of the AAA starters. Plus they are pushing back Doubront so Tampa faces 2 lefties in a row. If they were going to do that why not have Webster go Thursday on an extra day of rest?
|
|
|
Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 10, 2013 12:01:48 GMT -5
It's hard to get a read on Ben Cherington's focus because we really only have one year to go on, and every situation's different. From his moves, he seems to really focus on getting as many power arms as possible, and he seems to prioritize avoiding weak links over stocking the best players at the top of the food chain. Nothing all that revolutionary about either of those, but he does seem to have good focus on sticking to his blueprint ...
But, really, it's hard to tell right now.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 10, 2013 12:20:38 GMT -5
It's the shemales NCAA championship tonight. You can't go head to dead with that! HUSKIES!!! UCONN!...
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Apr 10, 2013 12:27:01 GMT -5
apparently aceves is pitching Thursday. Kill me now, that is so stupid. We would probably be better off with any of the AAA starters. Plus they are pushing back Doubront so Tampa faces 2 lefties in a row. If they were going to do that why not have Webster go Thursday on an extra day of rest? This could actually mean they are not DLing Lackey and he may be closer to return. If Aceves goes Thurs, then next turn is the 16th vs. Cleve. That's 10 days since the injury, nearly a full DL stint. Gives them the option to see a bullpen and let Lackey tell them how he feels the next day. If it's not good then they can retro DL him and then bring someone up. ADDED: So much for that theory, Lackey to DL, Wilson up.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Apr 10, 2013 13:03:35 GMT -5
Glad Wilson is getting a chance. Though does this mean Aceves to the rotation for multiple starts, with Wilson replacing him in the pen? Not a fan, but hopefully Aceves can at least provide some SP depth for a few weeks
|
|
|
Post by bluechip on Apr 10, 2013 13:11:23 GMT -5
I don't know what to make of the Orioles. They went 16-2 in extra inning games last year, which doesn't even seem possible. Duquette basically stood pat on them, but I'm willing to believe that it's because he's still building for 2015 and wasn't going to let a flukishly good 2012 season get him off the path. Their Pythagorean record was 82-80 last year, and that's about where I feel like they are. It sounds like you know exactly what to make of them. They were a .500 team that happened to win 16 out of 18 coin flips. Not much mystery too it. It seems to me just making that franchise into a .500 team was a pretty good accomplishment.
|
|
|