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7/11-7/14 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 14:44:10 GMT -5
Peak performance that looked completely sustainable and everyone here thought it was a good deal. Of course there was risk, as any contract has, but at the time people thought it was fair value if not a discount. He didn't pay him as if he had been doing what he did for half a season for years, or he would have been on a Kimbrel/Chapman-esque deal, which is my point. Obviously in hindsight it's not working out well, and maybe you should just never pay a reliever big (or in Barnes' case, medium) money. I couldn't disagree more, really He never put it together for a length of time that would lead me to use that term. Tough decisions, for sure.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 14:49:41 GMT -5
Peak performance that looked completely sustainable and everyone here thought it was a good deal. Of course there was risk, as any contract has, but at the time people thought it was fair value if not a discount. He didn't pay him as if he had been doing what he did for half a season for years, or he would have been on a Kimbrel/Chapman-esque deal, which is my point. Obviously in hindsight it's not working out well, and maybe you should just never pay a reliever big (or in Barnes' case, medium) money. I couldn't disagree more, really He never put it together for a length of time that would lead me to use that term. Tough decisions, for sure. Fair enough to say you would've wanted to see a longer track record of it, my point is just if he had that he would have commanded a lot more money than he got. His walk rate, wOBA allowed and K-rate were elite closer stuff (in line with peak-Kimbrel) pre-sticky ban.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,647
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Post by cdj on Jul 14, 2022 15:01:03 GMT -5
Duran in RF, JBJ in CF. Interesting
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 14, 2022 15:18:19 GMT -5
What are we doing here, just move him to LF. Verdugo is a big boy, he can handle the move to RF.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 15:47:36 GMT -5
sure....let's move the rookie around so he can learn a new position on the fly. How quintessentially new school. What can go wrong ?
Isn't there a way JBJ can pull the kid aside and say this is how you do it (within reason of course, he is never going to be that)
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Post by cba82 on Jul 14, 2022 15:50:06 GMT -5
The injury bug destroyed what could of been a great season for us. I hope next year we DH a different position player every game to keep them as fresh as possible. I’m also 100% in on a 6 man rotation. Sale Pivetta Paxton Free Agent Bello Winckowski When there’s injures then you stick to the 6 man. Keep our starters as fresh as possible. Crawford and Seabold as injury replacements or anyone who deserves a shot. We’re already talking about next year?
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Post by manfred on Jul 14, 2022 15:50:40 GMT -5
sure....let's move the rookie around so he can learn a new position on the fly. How quintessentially new school. What can go wrong ? Isn't there a way JBJ can pull the kid aside and say this is how you do it (within reason of course, he is never going to be that) Well… in fairness he doesn’t appear to have learned an *old* position.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 15:52:18 GMT -5
sure....let's move the rookie around so he can learn a new position on the fly. How quintessentially new school. What can go wrong ? Isn't there a way JBJ can pull the kid aside and say this is how you do it (within reason of course, he is never going to be that) Well… in fairness he doesn’t appear to have learned an *old* position. well..it appears reactionary. IMO, that is the wrong time to make decisions. It won't be worth it if he can't play RF any better than CF. Add: and it is a little unfair to label it an "old" position. He has been playing CF, in new stadiums, in the major leagues, for what like...50 games.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 15:56:17 GMT -5
He's played 10 full games in RF last year and this year combined, AAA included. Not a ton, but it's not an *entirely* new position for him.
My guess is that they think Kiké is going to be out for a while longer so they may as well get JBJ back to CF. This does follow a setback in Kiké's recovery, which is now being characterized with words like "very patient" and "delayed indefinitely"...
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,940
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jul 14, 2022 15:59:38 GMT -5
Maybe. I think the mistake was bigger: spending “Proven Closer” money on an UNproven closer. Barnes was lights out for half a season, but I think even at the time (before total meltdown) I feel like many on here expressed some trepidation over that commitment. At least in the thread devoted to the signing, there was universal adulation and agreement that it was a team-friendly deal.
Anyways, proven closers flame out all the time too. Look at Kimbrel, who is currently demonstrating that on his fourth consecutive team... Barnes was pretty dominant through the first half of last year (.518 OPS), had several decent years behind him (except for 2020, The Year Nobody Cares About), and had just turned 31 when he signed that contract. The praise for the contract on this site and elsewhere was justified. Nobody predicted that it would turn into the turd it has become. Also, let's keep perspective. It was two years with an AAV of $9.4M. It's not crushing the payroll and the RS will be out of it soon enough.
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Post by manfred on Jul 14, 2022 16:04:49 GMT -5
Well… in fairness he doesn’t appear to have learned an *old* position. well..it appears reactionary. IMO, that is the wrong time to make decisions. It won't be worth it if he can't play RF any better than CF. Add: and it is a little unfair to label it an "old" position. He has been playing CF, in new stadiums, in the major leagues, for what like...50 games. I was kidding. But he is a bad OF. That part is true.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 16:07:30 GMT -5
He's played 10 full games in RF last year and this year combined, AAA included. Not a ton, but it's not an *entirely* new position for him.
My guess is that they think Kiké is going to be out for a while longer so they may as well get JBJ back to CF. This does follow a setback in Kiké's recovery, which is now being characterized with words like "very patient" and "delayed indefinitely"... I am confused. JBJ saves runs in RF also. What is it going to accomplish for Duran or the team ? I guess that is what I want to know.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 16:09:31 GMT -5
Barnes was pretty dominant through the first half of last year (.518 OPS), had several decent years behind him (except for 2020, The Year Nobody Cares About), and had just turned 31 when he signed that contract. The praise for the contract on this site and elsewhere was justified. Nobody predicted that it would turn into the turd it has become. Also, let's keep perspective. It was two years with an AAV of $9.4M. It's not crushing the payroll and the RS will be out of it soon enough. maybe no one could have predicted it, but it was definitely foretold. You saw it over the years, just like I did. And this made me laugh.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 16:13:14 GMT -5
well..it appears reactionary. IMO, that is the wrong time to make decisions. It won't be worth it if he can't play RF any better than CF. Add: and it is a little unfair to label it an "old" position. He has been playing CF, in new stadiums, in the major leagues, for what like...50 games. I was kidding. But he is a bad OF. That part is true. Not picking on you, but imagine if the Sox said that about Wade Boggs, who by all accounts was an awful 3B when he came up, IIRC.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 16:13:57 GMT -5
He's played 10 full games in RF last year and this year combined, AAA included. Not a ton, but it's not an *entirely* new position for him.
My guess is that they think Kiké is going to be out for a while longer so they may as well get JBJ back to CF. This does follow a setback in Kiké's recovery, which is now being characterized with words like "very patient" and "delayed indefinitely"... I am confused. JBJ saves runs in RF also. What is it going to accomplish for Duran or the team ? I guess that is what I want to know. CF is the more important defensive position. And the difference in defensive ability between JBJ and Duran is not marginal.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 14, 2022 16:17:39 GMT -5
I am confused. JBJ saves runs in RF also. What is it going to accomplish for Duran or the team ? I guess that is what I want to know. CF is the more important defensive position. And the difference in defensive ability between JBJ and Duran is not marginal. Yes, it is. I will exit stage left at this point, hope it works out well.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 16:17:45 GMT -5
At least in the thread devoted to the signing, there was universal adulation and agreement that it was a team-friendly deal.
Anyways, proven closers flame out all the time too. Look at Kimbrel, who is currently demonstrating that on his fourth consecutive team... Barnes was pretty dominant through the first half of last year (.518 OPS), had several decent years behind him (except for 2020, The Year Nobody Cares About), and had just turned 31 when he signed that contract. The praise for the contract on this site and elsewhere was justified. Nobody predicted that it would turn into the turd it has become. Also, let's keep perspective. It was two years with an AAV of $9.4M. It's not crushing the payroll and the RS will be out of it soon enough. For what it's worth, I don't mean to claim any particular foresight about this. I didn't comment in the thread I linked to, which is indicative of my general ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ attitude toward bullpen deals. If I recall correctly (and it's very possible I don't), the supposed team-friendliness of the deal cancelled out my general skepticism about spending big on bullpen arms and I felt fine about it but wasn't enthusiastic.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 16:18:37 GMT -5
I was kidding. But he is a bad OF. That part is true. Not picking on you, but imagine if the Sox said that about Wade Boggs, who by all accounts was an awful 3B when he came up, IIRC. They probably said "Well he's an awful third baseman but he's hitting .350 so we'll work on that." If Duran can put up a 130 wRC+ I'm sure they'll let him figure it out defensively too.
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Post by manfred on Jul 14, 2022 16:39:07 GMT -5
I was kidding. But he is a bad OF. That part is true. Not picking on you, but imagine if the Sox said that about Wade Boggs, who by all accounts was an awful 3B when he came up, IIRC. True. Duran’s speed alone should help him become average. But he makes brutal reads. There is a lot of work to do. You are right tho… Boggs really put in the time. Duran can too.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 14, 2022 16:42:42 GMT -5
Glad I saw Thor instead of this. It'll never happen, but would have tremendous respect for Bloom if he punted on this season. Their record is a complete mirage after pounding on some horrible teams for a month, which was much improved from beating no one at all. I know it’s tough to vision but no one has been extended , can easily clear over 90 million plus David Price money off the books. He could qualify offers to 4 guys easily. This could happen. I hate doing nothing though. Either buy or sell. Standing pat just screams, "I don't trust this team, but we're too good to just give up". Getting a pick for Xander would be awful.
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Post by notstarboard on Jul 14, 2022 16:51:51 GMT -5
Duran in RF, JBJ in CF. Interesting With that noodle arm? I don't like this. I like Duran out of CF, but not if the alternative is RF. Don't love Verdugo in RF either, but especially on the road he can handle it, and his arm is less useless there.
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 14, 2022 17:11:14 GMT -5
Any chance Duran is getting showcased? Could someone like the A's or Red's be interested in him as a RFer but are a little hesitant??
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 14, 2022 17:14:21 GMT -5
I know it’s tough to vision but no one has been extended , can easily clear over 90 million plus David Price money off the books. He could qualify offers to 4 guys easily. This could happen. I hate doing nothing though. Either buy or sell. Standing pat just screams, "I don't trust this team, but we're too good to just give up". Getting a pick for Xander would be awful. Xander and Sale are kind of a exception. You can't really get anything for them because they have trade clauses, unless they were willing to wave them. Huge obstacle. Eovaldi, JDM, Verdugo possibly, and any other one year guys are fair game though. Hopefully you can extend Devers or you would have to at least entertain trading him. Would rather sign him.
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Post by philip on Jul 14, 2022 17:24:19 GMT -5
Jbj in center and Duran in right. Makes sense. Best defender should be in center. Don’t care how much he hits as long as he catches everything.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 14, 2022 17:45:01 GMT -5
I hate doing nothing though. Either buy or sell. Standing pat just screams, "I don't trust this team, but we're too good to just give up". Getting a pick for Xander would be awful. Xander and Sale are kind of a exception. You can't really get anything for them because they have trade clauses, unless they were willing to wave them. Huge obstacle. Eovaldi, JDM, Verdugo possibly, and any other one year guys are fair game though. Hopefully you can extend Devers or you would have to at least entertain trading him. Would rather sign him. Xander I can't see saying no to going to a contender for a half month that might offer him a contract he's looking for rather than stay on a team not willing to go all-in to win that hasn't negotiated a contract with him. Sale is both loyal and competitive so I could see an argument either way.
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